From g.tordini at tiscali.it Wed May 2 09:50:56 2007 From: g.tordini at tiscali.it (giuliano tordini) Date: Wed May 2 09:51:26 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Odd advice References: <041820072056.20228.46268610000BA47700004F04219791332903010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com>, <004301c7833d$bbcc2370$0301a8c0@TIME2003> <4628BC58.29561.A1B314@thomas.flyingkettle.com> Message-ID: <014701c78c8e$9e0b16c0$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> What does this means: that I could not stay a week in your island? giuliano ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Goodey" To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:12 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Odd advice > On 20 Apr 2007 at 12:18, A.H. Schulenburg wrote: > >> There is another strange bit of info on that page. See if you can >> spot it. > > I see: > > "If you do not have a British passport and do not have medical > insurance you will only be allowed to stay for 48 hours." > > I find this difficult to believe. If true, it rules out more than > half of potential tourists. For example, I couldn't visit SH with my > wife, because she is a Japanese national. > > This counterproductive rule (if it really exists) will obviously > collapse with the advent of the airport - if that day ever dawns... > > Thomas Goodey > > ********************************* > The introduction of a multiplicity > of objectives into a problem not > only destroys its unity, but also > increases markedly both the > time necessary for, and the > actual personal danger involved > in, its solution. > ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII > ************************************** > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From manager at sainthelenabank.com Wed May 2 11:39:18 2007 From: manager at sainthelenabank.com (Manager, Bank of St. Helena) Date: Wed May 2 11:42:40 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Odd advice In-Reply-To: <014701c78c8e$9e0b16c0$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> References: <041820072056.20228.46268610000BA47700004F04219791332903010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com>, <004301c7833d$bbcc2370$0301a8c0@TIME2003><4628BC58.29561.A1B314@thomas.flyingkettle.com> <014701c78c8e$9e0b16c0$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> Message-ID: <001101c78c9d$c4c4e2a0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Most people who come here as tourists stay over during the 'Ascension double-shuttle' period. During normal scheduling, the RMS comes up from Cape Town, lays over here for 2-3 days (unloading the imports), then goes up to Ascension and back twice before heading back towards Cape Town. That gives about 14 days on the island. Of course, longer stays are welcome and better to really get to know the island and its people. How cruise ship passengers manage with (typically) only a few hours defeats me. I believe the normal limit on a visitor's visa is 3 months but I understand that can be extended. Regards, John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of giuliano tordini Sent: 2 May 2007 07:51 To: thomas@flyingkettle.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Odd advice What does this means: that I could not stay a week in your island? giuliano ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Goodey" To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:12 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Odd advice > On 20 Apr 2007 at 12:18, A.H. Schulenburg wrote: > >> There is another strange bit of info on that page. See if you can >> spot it. > > I see: > > "If you do not have a British passport and do not have medical > insurance you will only be allowed to stay for 48 hours." > > I find this difficult to believe. If true, it rules out more than > half of potential tourists. For example, I couldn't visit SH with my > wife, because she is a Japanese national. > > This counterproductive rule (if it really exists) will obviously > collapse with the advent of the airport - if that day ever dawns... > > Thomas Goodey > > ********************************* > The introduction of a multiplicity > of objectives into a problem not > only destroys its unity, but also > increases markedly both the > time necessary for, and the > actual personal danger involved > in, its solution. > ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII > ************************************** > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2233 (20070501) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From John at BurghHouse.com Fri May 4 17:34:10 2007 From: John at BurghHouse.com (John Turner) Date: Fri May 4 17:37:35 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island Message-ID: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45> For general information .... PRESS RELEASE SUSPENSION OF ISLAND COUNCIL Following the outcome of nomination day on Ascension Island on 17th April 2007, Governor Clancy announced on 25th April that it was his intention to suspend the Island Council (Ascension) Ordinance, 2002 and to set up an advisory group with which he would consult on policy and new legislation. Yesterday, 3 May, Governor Clancy enacted the Island Council (Temporary Provisions) Ordinance, 2007 which has given effect to the suspension of the Island Council (Ascension) Ordinance, 2002. The suspension will operate until 1 May 2008, or any earlier date that the Governor may consider necessary. A new general election would need to be held between 21 and 31 days after the resumption date. Governor Clancy will shortly approach possible members of an advisory group. Office of the Governor 4 May 2007 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070504/5fd1f3fc/attachment.htm From sea_dragons at earthlink.net Fri May 4 17:46:07 2007 From: sea_dragons at earthlink.net (Christopher D. Lewis) Date: Fri May 4 17:46:37 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island In-Reply-To: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <4B3641EE-9A2F-4179-A1BD-4A541108AF13@earthlink.net> On May 4, 2007, at 10:34 AM, John Turner wrote: > For general information .... > > PRESS RELEASE > > SUSPENSION OF ISLAND COUNCIL Dear John, For those of us who aren't up on the local ordinances, does this mean democracy is suspended on Ascension? Thanks in advance. Take care, Chris From John at BurghHouse.com Fri May 4 17:59:43 2007 From: John at BurghHouse.com (John Turner) Date: Fri May 4 18:03:07 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island In-Reply-To: <4B3641EE-9A2F-4179-A1BD-4A541108AF13@earthlink.net> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <4B3641EE-9A2F-4179-A1BD-4A541108AF13@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000001c78e65$3e301c90$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Chris, I'm not sure - it depends on whether you call what Ascension had previously "democracy". As I understand it, the Island Council, like the council here, is an advisory body not a sovereign one, and final authority rests with the Governor. (If that's not right I'm sure someone will correct me!) That being the case, all that has really changed is that the people who advise the Governor are now to be chosen by the Governor, not by the islanders. Anyway, in my personal view "democracy" is overrated. Any system that puts nuclear warheads in the hands of people like George W Bush and Tony Blair has got to be fundamentally flawed! JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Christopher D. Lewis Sent: 4 May 2007 15:46 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Ascension Island On May 4, 2007, at 10:34 AM, John Turner wrote: > For general information .... > > PRESS RELEASE > > SUSPENSION OF ISLAND COUNCIL Dear John, For those of us who aren't up on the local ordinances, does this mean democracy is suspended on Ascension? Thanks in advance. Take care, Chris The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2239 (20070504) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From sea_dragons at earthlink.net Fri May 4 18:30:19 2007 From: sea_dragons at earthlink.net (Christopher D. Lewis) Date: Fri May 4 18:30:48 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island In-Reply-To: <000001c78e65$3e301c90$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <4B3641EE-9A2F-4179-A1BD-4A541108AF13@earthlink.net> <000001c78e65$3e301c90$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <2B88E6B3-8C05-45F7-B0F7-84D97512C949@earthlink.net> On May 4, 2007, at 10:59 AM, John Turner wrote: > Anyway, in my personal view "democracy" is overrated. As noted by your countryman: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965) Take care, Chris From john.ekwall at mailbox.swipnet.se Fri May 4 19:57:46 2007 From: john.ekwall at mailbox.swipnet.se (John Ekwall) Date: Fri May 4 19:58:25 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension democracy or? - respond here Message-ID: <000c01c78e75$c2affde0$b088fc53@TOSHIBA> by having a earthquake - check http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Maps/10/345_0.php MAP 6.1 2007/05/04 12:06:53 -1.523 -14.869 10.0 NORTH OF ASCENSION ISLAND John Ekwall -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070504/d1535d63/attachment.htm From bh006b5212 at blueyonder.co.uk Sat May 5 12:28:09 2007 From: bh006b5212 at blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Hunter) Date: Sat May 5 12:39:10 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] St Helena Message-ID: <001701c78f00$13b6d670$6502a8c0@e7b7r0> Hi i am one of the many who read the messages regulery with intrest, and think most of what i read good.Seeing that we have nuclear warheads and can not do much about them. Would JOHN TURNER rather see nuclear warheads in the hands of Argentina, Iran and such like, just think before you spout B A Hunter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070505/6b94ad7c/attachment.htm From cplowe at mchsi.com Sun May 6 05:13:08 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD) Date: Sun May 6 05:13:01 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? References: <041820072056.20228.46268610000BA47700004F04219791332903010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com>, <004301c7833d$bbcc2370$0301a8c0@TIME2003><4628BC58.29561.A1B314@thomas.flyingkettle.com><014701c78c8e$9e0b16c0$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> <001101c78c9d$c4c4e2a0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <002601c78f8c$78e86cc0$6501a8c0@Pam> Hi fellow list members, I have received a strange email that has not come through the list and wondered if others had as well. The first problem is that there is no sender listed. As "subject" it lists "Interesting Site: St Helenonline. I am too suspicious to actually click on it but below is exactly what it says in the body. I have not tried to open the sthelenaonline site either "Hello C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD: Your Friend considered our site Sthelenaonline interesting and wanted to send it to you. Site Name: Sthelenaonline Portal to St Helena Island Site URL www.sthelenaonline.com" Also, when I google my name, I get two snippets of postings to the St Helena site. Any idea how or why that happens? Pam From lgreenf at ktb.net Sun May 6 05:28:13 2007 From: lgreenf at ktb.net (Larry Greenfield) Date: Sun May 6 05:29:04 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? References: <041820072056.20228.46268610000BA47700004F04219791332903010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com>, <004301c7833d$bbcc2370$0301a8c0@TIME2003><4628BC58.29561.A1B314@thomas.flyingkettle.com><014701c78c8e$9e0b16c0$0200a8c0@ESSEDI><001101c78c9d$c4c4e2a0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <002601c78f8c$78e86cc0$6501a8c0@Pam> Message-ID: <001a01c78f8e$96d9e9a0$6400a8c0@main> I received the same email. After looking to see who sent it under PROPERTIES and seeing no sender listed, I just deleted it. Any kind of post where the sender is hidden gets immediate deletion from me. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 8:13 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > Hi fellow list members, > > I have received a strange email that has not come through the list and > wondered if others had as well. > The first problem is that there is no sender listed. As "subject" it > lists "Interesting Site: St Helenonline. > I am too suspicious to actually click on it but below is exactly what it > says in the body. I have not tried to > open the sthelenaonline site either > > "Hello C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD: > Your Friend considered our site Sthelenaonline interesting and wanted to > send it to you. > Site Name: Sthelenaonline > Portal to St Helena Island > Site URL www.sthelenaonline.com" > > Also, when I google my name, I get two snippets of postings to the St > Helena site. Any idea how or why that > happens? > > Pam > > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > From takkies at mighty.co.za Sun May 6 05:45:01 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Sun May 6 05:48:48 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? References: <041820072056.20228.46268610000BA47700004F04219791332903010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com>, <004301c7833d$bbcc2370$0301a8c0@TIME2003><4628BC58.29561.A1B314@thomas.flyingkettle.com><014701c78c8e$9e0b16c0$0200a8c0@ESSEDI><001101c78c9d$c4c4e2a0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <002601c78f8c$78e86cc0$6501a8c0@Pam> Message-ID: <000e01c78f91$654d8ec0$0200a8c0@dad> Good morning Pam, (our sun is just about to rise here) Yes, I recieved the same mail and also found myself casting a suspicious eye over it. I don't like anonymous emails which have been referred by a "friend". I think John Ekwall will know something about it - including info on the second question you posed. Best regards, Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 6:13 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > Hi fellow list members, > > I have received a strange email that has not come through the list and > wondered if others had as well. > The first problem is that there is no sender listed. As "subject" it > lists "Interesting Site: St Helenonline. > I am too suspicious to actually click on it but below is exactly what it > says in the body. I have not tried to > open the sthelenaonline site either > > "Hello C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD: > Your Friend considered our site Sthelenaonline interesting and wanted to > send it to you. > Site Name: Sthelenaonline > Portal to St Helena Island > Site URL www.sthelenaonline.com" > > Also, when I google my name, I get two snippets of postings to the St > Helena site. Any idea how or why that > happens? > > Pam > > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: > 269.6.4/789 - Release Date: 2007/05/04 05:49 PM > > From cplowe at mchsi.com Sun May 6 05:51:23 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD) Date: Sun May 6 05:51:15 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? References: <041820072056.20228.46268610000BA47700004F04219791332903010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com>, <004301c7833d$bbcc2370$0301a8c0@TIME2003><4628BC58.29561.A1B314@thomas.flyingkettle.com><014701c78c8e$9e0b16c0$0200a8c0@ESSEDI><001101c78c9d$c4c4e2a0$2d0b000a@shgbank45><002601c78f8c$78e86cc0$6501a8c0@Pam> <001a01c78f8e$96d9e9a0$6400a8c0@main> Message-ID: <000501c78f91$d08c3d30$6501a8c0@Pam> I deleted it too for the same reason. I think the list might have heard more officially about a st helena on line link. I think it is possibly someone up to mischief. Hope no one on the list opens it. Pam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Greenfield" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? >I received the same email. > After looking to see who sent it under PROPERTIES and seeing no sender > listed, I just deleted it. > Any kind of post where the sender is hidden gets immediate deletion from > me. > Larry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" > > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 8:13 PM > Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > > >> Hi fellow list members, >> >> I have received a strange email that has not come through the list and >> wondered if others had as well. >> The first problem is that there is no sender listed. As "subject" it >> lists "Interesting Site: St Helenonline. >> I am too suspicious to actually click on it but below is exactly what it >> says in the body. I have not tried to >> open the sthelenaonline site either >> >> "Hello C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD: >> Your Friend considered our site Sthelenaonline interesting and wanted to >> send it to you. >> Site Name: Sthelenaonline >> Portal to St Helena Island >> Site URL www.sthelenaonline.com" >> >> Also, when I google my name, I get two snippets of postings to the St >> Helena site. Any idea how or why that >> happens? >> >> Pam >> >> >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > From ronreena95776 at yahoo.com Sun May 6 06:10:43 2007 From: ronreena95776 at yahoo.com (ron melancon) Date: Sun May 6 06:11:13 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? In-Reply-To: <000501c78f91$d08c3d30$6501a8c0@Pam> Message-ID: <309373.41904.qm@web82113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello All, Googled the www.sthelaneaonline.com and it is a real online site...looked more like all government business about the island Ron Melancon Northern California --- "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" wrote: > I deleted it too for the same reason. I think the > list might have heard > more officially about a st helena on line link. > I think it is possibly someone up to mischief. Hope > no one on the list > opens it. > Pam > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Greenfield" > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South > Atlantic(Eng)" > > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:28 PM > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > > > >I received the same email. > > After looking to see who sent it under PROPERTIES > and seeing no sender > > listed, I just deleted it. > > Any kind of post where the sender is hidden gets > immediate deletion from > > me. > > Larry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" > > > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the > South Atlantic(Eng)" > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 8:13 PM > > Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > > > > > >> Hi fellow list members, > >> > >> I have received a strange email that has not come > through the list and > >> wondered if others had as well. > >> The first problem is that there is no sender > listed. As "subject" it > >> lists "Interesting Site: St Helenonline. > >> I am too suspicious to actually click on it but > below is exactly what it > >> says in the body. I have not tried to > >> open the sthelenaonline site either > >> > >> "Hello C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD: > >> Your Friend considered our site Sthelenaonline > interesting and wanted to > >> send it to you. > >> Site Name: Sthelenaonline > >> Portal to St Helena Island > >> Site URL www.sthelenaonline.com" > >> > >> Also, when I google my name, I get two snippets > of postings to the St > >> Helena site. Any idea how or why that > >> happens? > >> > >> Pam > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> The S:t Helena Mailing List > >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: > >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm > mail. > >> > > > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm > mail. > > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > From cplowe at mchsi.com Sun May 6 06:43:48 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD) Date: Sun May 6 06:43:37 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? References: <309373.41904.qm@web82113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000401c78f99$2338ed10$6501a8c0@Pam> When I tried to click on it from the message, I got a blank page that I could not exit out of. (Had to do a shut down) However, googling it produced the correct site which looked like some government type info and a chat line which it looks like Nissa joined??!! It is past midnight in North Carolina and I think Nissa is somewhere thss side of the world so perhaps she can tell us about the site in the am. Pam ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron melancon" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > Hello All, > Googled the www.sthelaneaonline.com and it is a real > online site...looked more like all government business > about the island > > Ron Melancon > Northern California > --- "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" > wrote: > >> I deleted it too for the same reason. I think the >> list might have heard >> more officially about a st helena on line link. >> I think it is possibly someone up to mischief. Hope >> no one on the list >> opens it. >> Pam >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Larry Greenfield" >> To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South >> Atlantic(Eng)" >> >> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:28 PM >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? >> >> >> >I received the same email. >> > After looking to see who sent it under PROPERTIES >> and seeing no sender >> > listed, I just deleted it. >> > Any kind of post where the sender is hidden gets >> immediate deletion from >> > me. >> > Larry >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" >> >> > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the >> South Atlantic(Eng)" >> > >> > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 8:13 PM >> > Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? >> > >> > >> >> Hi fellow list members, >> >> >> >> I have received a strange email that has not come >> through the list and >> >> wondered if others had as well. >> >> The first problem is that there is no sender >> listed. As "subject" it >> >> lists "Interesting Site: St Helenonline. >> >> I am too suspicious to actually click on it but >> below is exactly what it >> >> says in the body. I have not tried to >> >> open the sthelenaonline site either >> >> >> >> "Hello C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD: >> >> Your Friend considered our site Sthelenaonline >> interesting and wanted to >> >> send it to you. >> >> Site Name: Sthelenaonline >> >> Portal to St Helena Island >> >> Site URL www.sthelenaonline.com" >> >> >> >> Also, when I google my name, I get two snippets >> of postings to the St >> >> Helena site. Any idea how or why that >> >> happens? >> >> >> >> Pam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm >> mail. >> >> >> > >> > >> > The S:t Helena Mailing List >> > To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm >> mail. >> > >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From nanystrom at yahoo.com Sun May 6 07:35:49 2007 From: nanystrom at yahoo.com (Nissa Nystrom) Date: Sun May 6 07:36:19 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? In-Reply-To: <000401c78f99$2338ed10$6501a8c0@Pam> Message-ID: <12197.49429.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Pam, I also received the same initial e-mail as you and checked out the site by clicking on the address. It appears to be a site that also discusses the island of St. Helena much the same as this site but includes quite a bit more information from other sources and appears to have a web page that is much more elaborate. I saw that you are given the option of registering as a member and started to do that in order to see if as a registered member you are allowed access to other parts of the site that non-members might not be but then I decided not to complete it and backed out of it having only included my name and e-mail address. Not sure now why my name is showing up but I am not worried.............yet. ha ha I don't think it is anything I am going to lose sleep over though. I will let you know if there are any other developments due to having very partially registered on the site. Hoping curiosity does not kill the cat! Ha! Nissa Fargo, ND USA --- "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" wrote: > When I tried to click on it from the message, I got > a blank page that I > could not exit out of. (Had to do a shut down) > However, googling it produced > the correct site which looked like some government > type info and a chat line > which it looks like Nissa joined??!! It is past > midnight > in North Carolina and I think Nissa is somewhere > thss side of the world so > perhaps she can tell us about the site in the am. > Pam > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ron melancon" > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South > Atlantic(Eng)" > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 12:10 AM > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > > > > Hello All, > > Googled the www.sthelaneaonline.com and it is a > real > > online site...looked more like all government > business > > about the island > > > > Ron Melancon > > Northern California > > --- "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" > > wrote: > > > >> I deleted it too for the same reason. I think > the > >> list might have heard > >> more officially about a st helena on line link. > >> I think it is possibly someone up to mischief. > Hope > >> no one on the list > >> opens it. > >> Pam > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Larry Greenfield" > >> To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the > South > >> Atlantic(Eng)" > >> > >> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:28 PM > >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > >> > >> > >> >I received the same email. > >> > After looking to see who sent it under > PROPERTIES > >> and seeing no sender > >> > listed, I just deleted it. > >> > Any kind of post where the sender is hidden > gets > >> immediate deletion from > >> > me. > >> > Larry > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" > >> > >> > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the > >> South Atlantic(Eng)" > >> > > >> > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 8:13 PM > >> > Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > >> > > >> > > >> >> Hi fellow list members, > >> >> > >> >> I have received a strange email that has not > come > >> through the list and > >> >> wondered if others had as well. > >> >> The first problem is that there is no sender > >> listed. As "subject" it > >> >> lists "Interesting Site: St Helenonline. > >> >> I am too suspicious to actually click on it > but > >> below is exactly what it > >> >> says in the body. I have not tried to > >> >> open the sthelenaonline site either > >> >> > >> >> "Hello C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD: > >> >> Your Friend considered our site > Sthelenaonline > >> interesting and wanted to > >> >> send it to you. > >> >> Site Name: Sthelenaonline > >> >> Portal to St Helena Island > >> >> Site URL www.sthelenaonline.com" > >> >> > >> >> Also, when I google my name, I get two > snippets > >> of postings to the St > >> >> Helena site. Any idea how or why that > >> >> happens? > >> >> > >> >> Pam > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List > >> >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: > >> >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm > >> mail. > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > The S:t Helena Mailing List > >> > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > >> > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm > >> mail. > >> > > >> > >> > >> The S:t Helena Mailing List > >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: > >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm > mail. > >> > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm > mail. > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL From SimpsonCaz at aol.com Sun May 6 09:51:50 2007 From: SimpsonCaz at aol.com (SimpsonCaz@aol.com) Date: Sun May 6 09:52:23 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? Message-ID: In a message dated 06/05/2007 04:49:26 GMT Standard Time, takkies@mighty.co.za writes: list-leave@sthelena.se -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070506/168e5e03/attachment.htm From takkies at mighty.co.za Sun May 6 12:57:18 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Sun May 6 12:57:56 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? References: Message-ID: <004801c78fcd$58582db0$0200a8c0@dad> What's all this about? I never said I wanted to leave? Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: SimpsonCaz@aol.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? In a message dated 06/05/2007 04:49:26 GMT Standard Time, takkies@mighty.co.za writes: list-leave@sthelena.se ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.4/790 - Release Date: 2007/05/05 10:34 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070506/e3eee0ba/attachment.htm From takkies at mighty.co.za Sun May 6 13:57:41 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Sun May 6 13:58:13 2007 Subject: A word of caution - WAS Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? References: <12197.49429.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008901c78fd5$c05c50f0$0200a8c0@dad> Hi All, I'm starting to get some wierd stuff arriving at my mailbox - so be extra cautious! After the first anon email which some of you have mentioned... I DID sign up on www.stheleneaonline.com. I THEN RECIEVED ANOTHER STRANGE EMAIL 3 HOURS LATER FROM A SimpsonCaz@aol... \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ***----- Original Message ----- ***From: SimpsonCaz@aol.com ***To: list@sthelena.se ***Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 10:51 AM ***Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? *** ***In a message dated 06/05/2007 04:49:26 GMT Standard Time, takkies@mighty.co.za writes: *** ***list-leave@sthelena.se \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ...TO WHICH I RESPOND WITH... ******************************************* ***What's all this about? I never said I wanted to leave? *** ***Rob G ******************************************* THIS WAS FOLLOWED WITH AN EMAIL FROM die@amateur-fotografin.de - WRITTEN IN BOTH GERMAN AND ENGLISH TO EFFECT THAT I NEED TO SUBMIT A CODE CONTAINED IN THE TEXT... ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ***Hallo! *** ***Ihre E-Mail ist eingegangen, wurde aber vom Antispamprogramm unter "unbekannter Absender" abgelegt. Bitte ***verifizieren Sie sich als Absender, indem Sie diese Mail einfach per "beantworten" wieder zur?cksenden. ***Aufgrund des unten eingef?gten Codes werden Sie dann beim Eingang dieser E-Mail als vertrauensw?rdiger ***Absender im Antispamprogramm gespeichert. Es ist nicht notwendig, die urspr?ngliche E-Mail noch einmal zu ***senden. *** ***Vielen Dank! *** ***powered by defNULLspam - www.defnullspam.de (free download) ***Code: JG8NG9JQE* *** ***--------------------------- *** ***Hello! *** ***To verity yourself please send back this mail unchanged. Through the id code above you will be detected as a ***trusted person by the anti spam software. There is no need to send your original mail again. *** ***Thank you! ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// IT FEELS LIKE SOMEONE HAS HIJACKED OUR LISTING! Forgive the CAPS... I wasn't shouting but was trying to highlight what I was responding to against emails I was getting. Very strange that this has happened around the advent of a new website for St.Helena... Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nissa Nystrom" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > Hi Pam, > > I also received the same initial e-mail as you and > checked out the site by clicking on the address. It > appears to be a site that also discusses the island of > St. Helena much the same as this site but includes > quite a bit more information from other sources and > appears to have a web page that is much more > elaborate. I saw that you are given the option of > registering as a member and started to do that in > order to see if as a registered member you are allowed > access to other parts of the site that non-members > might not be but then I decided not to complete it and > backed out of it having only included my name and > e-mail address. Not sure now why my name is showing > up but I am not worried.............yet. ha ha I > don't think it is anything I am going to lose sleep > over though. I will let you know if there are any > other developments due to having very partially > registered on the site. Hoping curiosity does not > kill the cat! Ha! > > Nissa > > Fargo, ND USA > --- "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" > wrote: > >> When I tried to click on it from the message, I got >> a blank page that I >> could not exit out of. (Had to do a shut down) >> However, googling it produced >> the correct site which looked like some government >> type info and a chat line >> which it looks like Nissa joined??!! It is past >> midnight >> in North Carolina and I think Nissa is somewhere >> thss side of the world so >> perhaps she can tell us about the site in the am. >> Pam >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "ron melancon" >> To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South >> Atlantic(Eng)" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 12:10 AM >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? >> >> >> > Hello All, >> > Googled the www.sthelaneaonline.com and it is a >> real >> > online site...looked more like all government >> business >> > about the island >> > >> > Ron Melancon >> > Northern California >> > --- "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> I deleted it too for the same reason. I think >> the >> >> list might have heard >> >> more officially about a st helena on line link. >> >> I think it is possibly someone up to mischief. >> Hope >> >> no one on the list >> >> opens it. >> >> Pam >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Larry Greenfield" >> >> To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the >> South >> >> Atlantic(Eng)" >> >> >> >> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:28 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? >> >> >> >> >> >> >I received the same email. >> >> > After looking to see who sent it under >> PROPERTIES >> >> and seeing no sender >> >> > listed, I just deleted it. >> >> > Any kind of post where the sender is hidden >> gets >> >> immediate deletion from >> >> > me. >> >> > Larry >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" >> >> >> >> > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the >> >> South Atlantic(Eng)" >> >> > >> >> > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 8:13 PM >> >> > Subject: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Hi fellow list members, >> >> >> >> >> >> I have received a strange email that has not >> come >> >> through the list and >> >> >> wondered if others had as well. >> >> >> The first problem is that there is no sender >> >> listed. As "subject" it >> >> >> lists "Interesting Site: St Helenonline. >> >> >> I am too suspicious to actually click on it >> but >> >> below is exactly what it >> >> >> says in the body. I have not tried to >> >> >> open the sthelenaonline site either >> >> >> >> >> >> "Hello C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD: >> >> >> Your Friend considered our site >> Sthelenaonline >> >> interesting and wanted to >> >> >> send it to you. >> >> >> Site Name: Sthelenaonline >> >> >> Portal to St Helena Island >> >> >> Site URL www.sthelenaonline.com" >> >> >> >> >> >> Also, when I google my name, I get two >> snippets >> >> of postings to the St >> >> >> Helena site. Any idea how or why that >> >> >> happens? >> >> >> >> >> >> Pam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> >> >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> >> >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm >> >> mail. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > The S:t Helena Mailing List >> >> > To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> >> > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm >> >> mail. >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm >> mail. >> >> >> > >> > The S:t Helena Mailing List >> > To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm >> mail. >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.4/790 - Release Date: 2007/05/05 > 10:34 AM > > From nanystrom at yahoo.com Sun May 6 14:06:35 2007 From: nanystrom at yahoo.com (Nissa Nystrom) Date: Sun May 6 14:07:01 2007 Subject: A word of caution - WAS Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? In-Reply-To: <008901c78fd5$c05c50f0$0200a8c0@dad> Message-ID: <20070506120635.33529.qmail@web54512.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Rob and everyone else! Is it possible this e-mail from SimpsonCAz@aol was simply a request to have themselves taken off of this list? Nissa Fargo, ND USA --- Rob G wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm starting to get some wierd stuff arriving at my > mailbox - so be extra > cautious! After the first anon email which some of > you have mentioned... I > DID sign up on www.stheleneaonline.com. > > I THEN RECIEVED ANOTHER STRANGE EMAIL 3 HOURS LATER > FROM A SimpsonCaz@aol... > > \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > ***----- Original Message ----- > ***From: SimpsonCaz@aol.com > ***To: list@sthelena.se > ***Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 10:51 AM > ***Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > *** > ***In a message dated 06/05/2007 04:49:26 GMT > Standard Time, > takkies@mighty.co.za writes: > *** > ***list-leave@sthelena.se > > > \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > ...TO WHICH I RESPOND WITH... > > ******************************************* > ***What's all this about? I never said I wanted to > leave? > *** > ***Rob G > ******************************************* > > THIS WAS FOLLOWED WITH AN EMAIL FROM > die@amateur-fotografin.de - WRITTEN IN > BOTH GERMAN AND ENGLISH TO EFFECT THAT I NEED TO > SUBMIT A CODE CONTAINED IN > THE TEXT... > > ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > ***Hallo! > *** > ***Ihre E-Mail ist eingegangen, wurde aber vom > Antispamprogramm unter > "unbekannter Absender" abgelegt. Bitte > ***verifizieren Sie sich als > Absender, indem Sie diese Mail einfach per > "beantworten" wieder > zur?cksenden. ***Aufgrund des unten eingef?gten > Codes werden Sie dann beim > Eingang dieser E-Mail als vertrauensw?rdiger > ***Absender im Antispamprogramm > gespeichert. Es ist nicht notwendig, die > urspr?ngliche E-Mail noch einmal zu > ***senden. > *** > ***Vielen Dank! > *** > ***powered by defNULLspam - www.defnullspam.de (free > download) > ***Code: JG8NG9JQE* > *** > ***--------------------------- > *** > ***Hello! > *** > ***To verity yourself please send back this mail > unchanged. Through the id > code above you will be detected as a ***trusted > person by the anti spam > software. There is no need to send your original > mail again. > *** > ***Thank you! > ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > > IT FEELS LIKE SOMEONE HAS HIJACKED OUR LISTING! > Forgive the CAPS... I wasn't shouting but was trying > to highlight what I was > responding to against emails I was getting. > > Very strange that this has happened around the > advent of a new website for > St.Helena... > > Rob G > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nissa Nystrom" > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South > Atlantic(Eng)" > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:35 AM > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > > > > Hi Pam, > > > > I also received the same initial e-mail as you and > > checked out the site by clicking on the address. > It > > appears to be a site that also discusses the > island of > > St. Helena much the same as this site but includes > > quite a bit more information from other sources > and > > appears to have a web page that is much more > > elaborate. I saw that you are given the option of > > registering as a member and started to do that in > > order to see if as a registered member you are > allowed > > access to other parts of the site that non-members > > might not be but then I decided not to complete it > and > > backed out of it having only included my name and > > e-mail address. Not sure now why my name is > showing > > up but I am not worried.............yet. ha ha I > > don't think it is anything I am going to lose > sleep > > over though. I will let you know if there are any > > other developments due to having very partially > > registered on the site. Hoping curiosity does not > > kill the cat! Ha! > > > > Nissa > > > > Fargo, ND USA > > --- "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" > > wrote: > > > >> When I tried to click on it from the message, I > got > >> a blank page that I > >> could not exit out of. (Had to do a shut down) > >> However, googling it produced > >> the correct site which looked like some > government > >> type info and a chat line > >> which it looks like Nissa joined??!! It is past > >> midnight > >> in North Carolina and I think Nissa is somewhere > >> thss side of the world so > >> perhaps she can tell us about the site in the am. > >> Pam > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "ron melancon" > >> To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the > South > >> Atlantic(Eng)" > >> > >> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 12:10 AM > >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > >> > >> > >> > Hello All, > >> > Googled the www.sthelaneaonline.com and it is a > >> real > >> > online site...looked more like all government > >> business > >> > about the island > >> > > >> > Ron Melancon > >> > Northern California > >> > --- "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" > > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> I deleted it too for the same reason. I think > >> the > >> >> list might have heard > >> >> more officially about a st helena on line > link. > >> >> I think it is possibly someone up to mischief. > >> Hope > >> >> no one on the list > >> >> opens it. > >> >> Pam > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: "Larry Greenfield" > >> >> To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the > >> South > >> >> Atlantic(Eng)" > >> >> > >> >> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:28 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible > Problem? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >I received the same email. > >> >> > After looking to see who sent it under > >> PROPERTIES > >> >> and seeing no sender > >> >> > listed, I just deleted it. > >> >> > Any kind of post where the sender is hidden > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From takkies at mighty.co.za Sun May 6 14:23:24 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Sun May 6 14:24:03 2007 Subject: A word of caution - WAS Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? References: <20070506120635.33529.qmail@web54512.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009601c78fd9$58298620$0200a8c0@dad> Yip Nissa, I thought that it might have been the case... but not after I noticed it had MY email address stating "it" wanted to leave the list; Quote; "In a message dated 06/05/2007 04:49:26 GMT >> Standard Time, >> takkies@mighty.co.za writes: >> *** >> ***list-leave@sthelena.se Unquote. I never requested this at all! There is also the question of the email which wants me to respond with that "CODE" in place. One correction - I made a serious error by suggesting that www.stheleneaonline.com was a "new site - it isn't and seems to have been around since 2003. I now vaguely remember coming across the site a long time ago too... but didn't stick around as it didn't appear to hold much info at the time. Best regards, Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nissa Nystrom" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 3:06 PM Subject: Re: A word of caution - WAS Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? > Hi Rob and everyone else! > > Is it possible this e-mail from SimpsonCAz@aol was > simply a request to have themselves taken off of this > list? > > Nissa > Fargo, ND USA > --- Rob G wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I'm starting to get some wierd stuff arriving at my >> mailbox - so be extra >> cautious! After the first anon email which some of >> you have mentioned... I >> DID sign up on www.stheleneaonline.com. >> >> I THEN RECIEVED ANOTHER STRANGE EMAIL 3 HOURS LATER >> FROM A SimpsonCaz@aol... >> >> > \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ >> ***----- Original Message ----- >> ***From: SimpsonCaz@aol.com >> ***To: list@sthelena.se >> ***Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 10:51 AM >> ***Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? >> *** >> ***In a message dated 06/05/2007 04:49:26 GMT >> Standard Time, >> takkies@mighty.co.za writes: >> *** >> ***list-leave@sthelena.se >> >> >> > \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ >> >> ...TO WHICH I RESPOND WITH... >> >> ******************************************* >> ***What's all this about? I never said I wanted to >> leave? >> *** >> ***Rob G >> ******************************************* >> >> THIS WAS FOLLOWED WITH AN EMAIL FROM >> die@amateur-fotografin.de - WRITTEN IN >> BOTH GERMAN AND ENGLISH TO EFFECT THAT I NEED TO >> SUBMIT A CODE CONTAINED IN >> THE TEXT... >> >> > ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >> ***Hallo! >> *** >> ***Ihre E-Mail ist eingegangen, wurde aber vom >> Antispamprogramm unter >> "unbekannter Absender" abgelegt. Bitte >> ***verifizieren Sie sich als >> Absender, indem Sie diese Mail einfach per >> "beantworten" wieder >> zur?cksenden. ***Aufgrund des unten eingef?gten >> Codes werden Sie dann beim >> Eingang dieser E-Mail als vertrauensw?rdiger >> ***Absender im Antispamprogramm >> gespeichert. Es ist nicht notwendig, die >> urspr?ngliche E-Mail noch einmal zu >> ***senden. >> *** >> ***Vielen Dank! >> *** >> ***powered by defNULLspam - www.defnullspam.de (free >> download) >> ***Code: JG8NG9JQE* >> *** >> ***--------------------------- >> *** >> ***Hello! >> *** >> ***To verity yourself please send back this mail >> unchanged. Through the id >> code above you will be detected as a ***trusted >> person by the anti spam >> software. There is no need to send your original >> mail again. >> *** >> ***Thank you! >> > ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >> >> IT FEELS LIKE SOMEONE HAS HIJACKED OUR LISTING! >> Forgive the CAPS... I wasn't shouting but was trying >> to highlight what I was >> responding to against emails I was getting. >> >> Very strange that this has happened around the >> advent of a new website for >> St.Helena... >> >> Rob G >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nissa Nystrom" >> To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South >> Atlantic(Eng)" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:35 AM >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? >> >> >> > Hi Pam, >> > >> > I also received the same initial e-mail as you and >> > checked out the site by clicking on the address. >> It >> > appears to be a site that also discusses the >> island of >> > St. Helena much the same as this site but includes >> > quite a bit more information from other sources >> and >> > appears to have a web page that is much more >> > elaborate. I saw that you are given the option of >> > registering as a member and started to do that in >> > order to see if as a registered member you are >> allowed >> > access to other parts of the site that non-members >> > might not be but then I decided not to complete it >> and >> > backed out of it having only included my name and >> > e-mail address. Not sure now why my name is >> showing >> > up but I am not worried.............yet. ha ha I >> > don't think it is anything I am going to lose >> sleep >> > over though. I will let you know if there are any >> > other developments due to having very partially >> > registered on the site. Hoping curiosity does not >> > kill the cat! Ha! >> > >> > Nissa >> > >> > Fargo, ND USA >> > --- "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> When I tried to click on it from the message, I >> got >> >> a blank page that I >> >> could not exit out of. (Had to do a shut down) >> >> However, googling it produced >> >> the correct site which looked like some >> government >> >> type info and a chat line >> >> which it looks like Nissa joined??!! It is past >> >> midnight >> >> in North Carolina and I think Nissa is somewhere >> >> thss side of the world so >> >> perhaps she can tell us about the site in the am. >> >> Pam >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "ron melancon" >> >> To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the >> South >> >> Atlantic(Eng)" >> >> >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 12:10 AM >> >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible Problem? >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hello All, >> >> > Googled the www.sthelaneaonline.com and it is a >> >> real >> >> > online site...looked more like all government >> >> business >> >> > about the island >> >> > >> >> > Ron Melancon >> >> > Northern California >> >> > --- "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> I deleted it too for the same reason. I think >> >> the >> >> >> list might have heard >> >> >> more officially about a st helena on line >> link. >> >> >> I think it is possibly someone up to mischief. >> >> Hope >> >> >> no one on the list >> >> >> opens it. >> >> >> Pam >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> From: "Larry Greenfield" >> >> >> To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the >> >> South >> >> >> Atlantic(Eng)" >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:28 PM >> >> >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re: A Possible >> Problem? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >I received the same email. >> >> >> > After looking to see who sent it under >> >> PROPERTIES >> >> >> and seeing no sender >> >> >> > listed, I just deleted it. >> >> >> > Any kind of post where the sender is hidden >> > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.4/790 - Release Date: 2007/05/05 > 10:34 AM > > From john.ekwall at mailbox.swipnet.se Sun May 6 17:23:57 2007 From: john.ekwall at mailbox.swipnet.se (John Ekwall) Date: Sun May 6 17:24:37 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] sthelenaonline... References: <20070506120635.33529.qmail@web54512.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000601c78ff2$9ac7ee40$b088fc53@TOSHIBA> Hi, Sthelenaonline is a serious website - I was invited some years ago but I haven't visit it for along while. I also respect you for deleting anonymous postings - I do it myself. I think that the anonumous posting came from their site as they have a link - Recommend us - where you can type using this formula http://www.sthelenaonline.com/modules.php?name=Recommend_Us simpsoncaataol.com is a member of our list. John Ekwall Moderator From takkies at mighty.co.za Sun May 6 19:12:46 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Sun May 6 19:13:49 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] sthelenaonline... References: <20070506120635.33529.qmail@web54512.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c78ff2$9ac7ee40$b088fc53@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <002e01c79001$cac5dbc0$0200a8c0@dad> Many thanks for that info John E... but can you tell me if; "SimpsonCaz@aol.com and die@amateur-fotografin.de" are on our list please? It's clear to me that the crux of each of the emails from these "people" indicated I had made a request to leave/unsubscribe from the list - which is CERTAINLY not the case. Best Regards, Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ekwall" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: [STHELENA] sthelenaonline... > Hi, > > Sthelenaonline is a serious website - I was invited some years ago but I > haven't visit it for along while. > I also respect you for deleting anonymous postings - I do it myself. > > I think that the anonumous posting came from their site as they have a > link - Recommend us - where you can type using this formula > http://www.sthelenaonline.com/modules.php?name=Recommend_Us > > simpsoncaataol.com is a member of our list. > > John Ekwall > Moderator > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: > 269.6.4/790 - Release Date: 2007/05/05 10:34 AM > > From ro-lin at online.no Sun May 6 20:02:08 2007 From: ro-lin at online.no (Roy Lindquist) Date: Sun May 6 20:02:54 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Snail Penpalfriend St Helena Message-ID: Dear friends in St Helena ( list) I am an 57 year old married man who have a special interest of the history of Napoleon and his stay at Longwood house. I hope so much to find a penfriend ( snailmail) to whom I/we could have historic correspondance interest togheter.. Maybe to difficult and out of date.but its worth a try Thanks Roy Lindquist Molvaersvegen 96 N-6030 Langevag Norway -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070506/03214ca3/attachment.htm From john.ekwall at mailbox.swipnet.se Sun May 6 21:09:21 2007 From: john.ekwall at mailbox.swipnet.se (John Ekwall) Date: Sun May 6 21:09:46 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] sthelenaonline... References: <20070506120635.33529.qmail@web54512.mail.yahoo.com><000601c78ff2$9ac7ee40$b088fc53@TOSHIBA> <002e01c79001$cac5dbc0$0200a8c0@dad> Message-ID: <001601c79012$0deb6450$b088fc53@TOSHIBA> Simpson is a member of the list - see previous posting. The other .de NOT. John > Many thanks for that info John E... but can you tell me if; > "SimpsonCaz@aol.com and die@amateur-fotografin.de" are on our list please? From mwelfeld at hotmail.com Sun May 6 23:06:29 2007 From: mwelfeld at hotmail.com (Martin Welfeld) Date: Sun May 6 23:07:01 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] sthelenaonline... In-Reply-To: <002e01c79001$cac5dbc0$0200a8c0@dad> Message-ID: I believe that if you read the email header carefully, you will see that you, as a list member, were simply copied in to their reqiest to leave the list. That is readily apparent from the email that I received. Does yours indicate that they were the senders of the request or does it indicate that you were the sender? Marty Welfeld ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Rob G" Reply-To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Subject: Re: [STHELENA] sthelenaonline... Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 19:12:46 +0200 Many thanks for that info John E... but can you tell me if; "SimpsonCaz@aol.com and die@amateur-fotografin.de" are on our list please? It's clear to me that the crux of each of the emails from these "people" indicated I had made a request to leave/unsubscribe from the list - which is CERTAINLY not the case. Best Regards, Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ekwall" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: [STHELENA] sthelenaonline... >Hi, > >Sthelenaonline is a serious website - I was invited some years ago but I >haven't visit it for along while. >I also respect you for deleting anonymous postings - I do it myself. > >I think that the anonumous posting came from their site as they have a link >- Recommend us - where you can type using this formula >http://www.sthelenaonline.com/modules.php?name=Recommend_Us > >simpsoncaataol.com is a member of our list. > >John Ekwall >Moderator >The S:t Helena Mailing List >To unsubscribe please send a email to: >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.4/790 >- Release Date: 2007/05/05 10:34 AM > > The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From ragazzod at gmail.com Mon May 7 18:03:18 2007 From: ragazzod at gmail.com (Dennis Mark) Date: Mon May 7 18:03:42 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] submission Message-ID: <6dddbc4f0705070903v61786682l7d6efbd69ec9f2bd@mail.gmail.com> Please -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070507/d5b0f9c3/attachment.htm From joocee at btopenworld.com Mon May 7 21:44:23 2007 From: joocee at btopenworld.com (JULIET COTTAM) Date: Mon May 7 21:44:46 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Still Waiting!! was... preview of images References: <20070429071725.1954F248E@ctb-mesg8.saix.net> Message-ID: <003c01c790e0$23b0c590$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> HiTerry! I do hope that you are safely aboard ye good olde ship St. Helena ! and well on your way to her island. I have just been into the RMS.website and see, on the ship locator that she is east of Jamestown - so it sounds as if progress is being made, at a good steaming speed. But please don't let her blow her gaskets - or whatever- before August - when I am booked on her. I too have immediately deleted the 'strange' message doing the rounds - nothing nefarious stays long on my Inbox list. Juliet. ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Herbert To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 8:17 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Still Waiting!! was... preview of images There are worse places than Cape Town to be hanging around in, Juliet!! It looks as if we are going to have another few days here. The latest news from the RMS front is that when (if?) it arrives later today, it will need three days for - can you guess - engine repairs!! So the new tentative sailing date is Wednesday May 3, BUT it is a public holiday here in Tuesday (May Day/Workers Day) and it was a public Holiday on Friday, so many people have made it a long weekend. So what are the chances of the work being done on Tuesday. Perhaps closer to zero than one would wish. That in turn makes the probability of a lift off on Wednesday less likely. But what is to happen to us passengers? We have been told to bard on Monday at 15h00 sharp (because of new port regulations). Will we be on the ship, stuck in the security area of the docks, while the repairs are carried out? Will we now be told NOT to board tomorrow, leaving us to find alternative accommodation, re-hire cars etc? Who knows? All I do know is that Andrew Weir don't seem to have much of a customer focused vision when it comes to bookings and the like. All the best Terry Herbert DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, Australia but currently waiting in Cape Town for the RMS St Helena to get here!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of JULIET COTTAM Sent: Saturday, 28 April 2007 9:04 PM To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] preview of images and visit to the island What a wally I am ! Not having read John's prologue fully - or too quickly- I took it for granted that the display of photos, in Glorious black and white - were all of St. H. No wonder I can't recall a boat building yard ! Thanks for correcting me ! So when I am on the island I'll carry on looking at the geolgical wonders and the endemic plants ! Thanks too for the info. on the period of Non- smoking - pre the RMS. return - I had visions of the precious fag being passed round for a limited number of puffs! As a non- smoker, I can't commiserate with the addicts, but if it gives them solace, so be it . Hope you haven't waited too long in Cape Town for the RMS, Terry - I chart her progress on the 'ship locator' on the RMS. website most days, but knowing of her very late departure from Portland, I feel that it will take some steaming to catch up on the schedule. I am booked to board her in Capetown mid-August, but the nice lady in A.Weir's booking office assures me that there should be no problem by that time - here's hoping. I know last year, when we were delayed two days in Portland, those two days were caught up, but a fortnight is a different problem, me thinks. I don't want to hang around Capetown - I want to be on St. Helena! ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Herbert To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:01 AM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] preview of images and visit to the island I agree with Juliet that we should thank John for the opportunity of seeing such an excellent record of life in Tristan da Cunha and the opportunity to see some first class photography. I particularly liked the shots on page 4 of the sailing boats - lovely compositions. Juliet, you say that you will have eight days on the island in August. I assume you mean St Helena rather than Tristan? You won't see any scenes such as those in the pictures - there are no boats being built on St Helena. What boats there are have all been imported. You will be able to go out, possibly with a fisherman on his boat, or on one of the several boats that take visitors out for diving or just to see the dolphins (and occasional whales) - a trip well worth doing. All the best Terry Herbert DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, Australia but currently waiting in Cape Town for the RMS St Helena to get here!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of JULIET COTTAM Sent: Saturday, 28 April 2007 1:30 AM To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] preview of images Thankyou John for all the dedicated andhardwork put in, to produce those images. I am no great photographer - but doappreciate that black and white is a great medium . As I scanned through them Iirealsiedthat these were taken in earlier days- 50's perhaps. What struck me was the great amount of handfishing that took place, and the building of boats was prominent. In my short stay last year, I do not recall seeing anyone fishing - but then perhaps I did not visit the right spots. I will have 8 days on the island in August, so will be able to visit many more places than previously - you never know, I might find a fisherman, and possibly a boat being built - the latter always good for photography. Can someone tell me where these activities take place - if they do these days - in anticipation, thanks ! Juliet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070507/c9f242d7/attachment.htm From rbauer6115 at t-online.de Mon May 7 21:48:33 2007 From: rbauer6115 at t-online.de (Reino Bauer) Date: Mon May 7 21:49:17 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island In-Reply-To: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <463F8291.8090606@bigfoot.com> Interesting. Is there any information about the reason for this decision of HE? Thanks in advance, Reino bauer (V91) John Turner wrote: > *For general information ....* > ** > ** > > *PRESS RELEASE* > > * * > > *SUSPENSION OF ISLAND COUNCIL* > > * * > > * * > > Following the outcome of nomination day on Ascension Island on 17^th > April 2007, Governor Clancy announced on 25^th April that it was his > intention to suspend the Island Council (Ascension) Ordinance, 2002 > and to set up an advisory group with which he would consult on policy > and new legislation. > > > > Yesterday, 3 May, Governor Clancy enacted the Island Council > (Temporary Provisions) Ordinance, 2007 which has given effect to the > suspension of the Island Council (Ascension) Ordinance, 2002. > > > > The suspension will operate until 1 May 2008, or any earlier date that > the Governor may consider necessary. A new general election would > need to be held between 21 and 31 days after the resumption date. > > > > Governor Clancy will shortly approach possible members of an advisory > group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Office of the Governor > > 4 May 2007 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From John at BurghHouse.com Tue May 8 12:02:45 2007 From: John at BurghHouse.com (John Turner) Date: Tue May 8 12:06:25 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island In-Reply-To: <463F8291.8090606@bigfoot.com> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <463F8291.8090606@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <000101c79158$094c66a0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> The Ascension Island Council resigned en-masse and when nominations were taken for a new council only two people put their names forward. I recommend reading the Independent online each Friday (http://www.saint.fm/independent/index.htm) to stay in touch with St.?Helena, Ascension and (major) Falkland Island developments. Scan the back-issues to get the full history of the council's resignation. (For balance I should also mention that the St.?Helena Herald is available online - see www.news.co.sh - but you have to pay for a subscription to read the latest edition. The Independent is free.) Regards, John Turner Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Reino Bauer Sent: 7 May 2007 19:49 To: John@burghhouse.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Ascension Island Interesting. Is there any information about the reason for this decision of HE? Thanks in advance, Reino bauer (V91) John Turner wrote: > *For general information ....* > ** > ** > > *PRESS RELEASE* > > * * > > *SUSPENSION OF ISLAND COUNCIL* > > * * > > * * > > Following the outcome of nomination day on Ascension Island on 17^th > April 2007, Governor Clancy announced on 25^th April that it was his > intention to suspend the Island Council (Ascension) Ordinance, 2002 > and to set up an advisory group with which he would consult on policy > and new legislation. > > > > Yesterday, 3 May, Governor Clancy enacted the Island Council > (Temporary Provisions) Ordinance, 2007 which has given effect to the > suspension of the Island Council (Ascension) Ordinance, 2002. > > > > The suspension will operate until 1 May 2008, or any earlier date that > the Governor may consider necessary. A new general election would > need to be held between 21 and 31 days after the resumption date. > > > > Governor Clancy will shortly approach possible members of an advisory > group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Office of the Governor > > 4 May 2007 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2247 (20070507) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From thomas at flyingkettle.com Tue May 8 12:30:25 2007 From: thomas at flyingkettle.com (Thomas Goodey) Date: Tue May 8 12:31:04 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil In-Reply-To: <000101c79158$094c66a0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <463F8291.8090606@bigfoot.com>, <000101c79158$094c66a0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com> On 8 May 2007 at 10:02, John Turner wrote: > The Ascension Island Council resigned en-masse... What was the reason? Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** From rbauer6115 at t-online.de Tue May 8 13:23:45 2007 From: rbauer6115 at t-online.de (Reino Bauer) Date: Tue May 8 13:24:18 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil In-Reply-To: <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <463F8291.8090606@bigfoot.com>, <000101c79158$094c66a0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com> Message-ID: <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com> See the article of the Glasgow Sunday Herald under http://www.saint.fm/Independent/20070427.pdf Thanks John for the link. Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) Thomas Goodey wrote: > On 8 May 2007 at 10:02, John Turner wrote: > > >> The Ascension Island Council resigned en-masse... >> > > What was the reason? > > Thomas Goodey > > ********************************* > The introduction of a multiplicity > of objectives into a problem not > only destroys its unity, but also > increases markedly both the > time necessary for, and the > actual personal danger involved > in, its solution. > ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII > ************************************** > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > From thomas at flyingkettle.com Tue May 8 13:40:07 2007 From: thomas at flyingkettle.com (Thomas Goodey) Date: Tue May 8 13:40:52 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil In-Reply-To: <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com> On 8 May 2007 at 13:23, Reino Bauer wrote: > See the article of the Glasgow Sunday Herald under > http://www.saint.fm/Independent/20070427.pdf Ah, interesting. It appears that the Ascension Council resigned in protest against the British Government's refusal to allow the people actually living on the island to have a formal right to continue to do so. It is suspected that, inspired by the Americans, the Government's long-term plan is to "do a Chagos (Diego Garcia)" on the inhabitants of Ascension - i.e., kick them out. I think these worries may be very justified. Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** From John at BurghHouse.com Tue May 8 15:00:16 2007 From: John at BurghHouse.com (John Turner) Date: Tue May 8 15:03:56 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil In-Reply-To: <46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com> <46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com> Message-ID: <000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45> I would not normally expect to find myself defending the British government, but in this case I must (though in a qualified way). The people of Chagos (Diego Garcia) had, I believe, lived there for a long time, and were evicted from their own island. Nobody ever had the right to live on Ascension Island, so the two cases are not really the same. As I understand it, the issue is that the islanders believed the British government was going to give them the right of abode, and then withdrew that. I'm not going to get into the debate about whether the islanders' belief was justified or not, but that was their belief, so when they were told recently that this was not going to happen they were, understandably, upset. They feel they were led on, and produce evidence for that belief. I have not seen any credible counter evidence produced by the FCO. Personally I doubt that the British government will move the Saints off Ascension Island, at least not in the foreseeable future. What they are paid for working there is peanuts compared with what British people would demand to go there, and the jobs need to be done. Why would a government chuck out a mass of cheap and largely uncomplaining labour? But I agree that is far less reassuring than a right of abode. My personal belief is that the decision to refuse right of abode is economic not military. If there was a right of abode, and Ascension Island's economy was to collapse, the British government would have to subsidise the island, as it does St.?Helena. So I believe it is merely managing its contingent liabilities. The military conspiracy theory is more attractive, I'm sure, but less credible. Incidentally, Saints go to Ascension (and the Falklands) for those wages because it is better than they can get here, which, in turn, shows just how bad incomes are in St.?Helena compared to the UK. Regards, John Turner Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Thomas Goodey Sent: 8 May 2007 11:40 To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil On 8 May 2007 at 13:23, Reino Bauer wrote: > See the article of the Glasgow Sunday Herald under > http://www.saint.fm/Independent/20070427.pdf Ah, interesting. It appears that the Ascension Council resigned in protest against the British Government's refusal to allow the people actually living on the island to have a formal right to continue to do so. It is suspected that, inspired by the Americans, the Government's long-term plan is to "do a Chagos (Diego Garcia)" on the inhabitants of Ascension - i.e., kick them out. I think these worries may be very justified. Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From simon.pipe at bbc.co.uk Tue May 8 15:13:36 2007 From: simon.pipe at bbc.co.uk (Simon Pipe) Date: Tue May 8 15:13:58 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil In-Reply-To: <000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com> <000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> I think John's response on right-of-abode misses an important point: that there are people who are born on Ascension, who grow up there and who may spend their entire working lives there, but at the end of their working lives will have no right to remain in their homeland. To have to emigrate at such a point, to another island that has never been home, must seem very hard, and I think it does raise an important issue of human rights. I should say I don't know that this has ever actually happened. Simon Pipe -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John Turner Sent: 08 May 2007 14:00 To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil I would not normally expect to find myself defending the British government, but in this case I must (though in a qualified way). The people of Chagos (Diego Garcia) had, I believe, lived there for a long time, and were evicted from their own island. Nobody ever had the right to live on Ascension Island, so the two cases are not really the same. As I understand it, the issue is that the islanders believed the British government was going to give them the right of abode, and then withdrew that. I'm not going to get into the debate about whether the islanders' belief was justified or not, but that was their belief, so when they were told recently that this was not going to happen they were, understandably, upset. They feel they were led on, and produce evidence for that belief. I have not seen any credible counter evidence produced by the FCO. Personally I doubt that the British government will move the Saints off Ascension Island, at least not in the foreseeable future. What they are paid for working there is peanuts compared with what British people would demand to go there, and the jobs need to be done. Why would a government chuck out a mass of cheap and largely uncomplaining labour? But I agree that is far less reassuring than a right of abode. My personal belief is that the decision to refuse right of abode is economic not military. If there was a right of abode, and Ascension Island's economy was to collapse, the British government would have to subsidise the island, as it does St.?Helena. So I believe it is merely managing its contingent liabilities. The military conspiracy theory is more attractive, I'm sure, but less credible. Incidentally, Saints go to Ascension (and the Falklands) for those wages because it is better than they can get here, which, in turn, shows just how bad incomes are in St.?Helena compared to the UK. Regards, John Turner Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Thomas Goodey Sent: 8 May 2007 11:40 To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil On 8 May 2007 at 13:23, Reino Bauer wrote: > See the article of the Glasgow Sunday Herald under > http://www.saint.fm/Independent/20070427.pdf Ah, interesting. It appears that the Ascension Council resigned in protest against the British Government's refusal to allow the people actually living on the island to have a formal right to continue to do so. It is suspected that, inspired by the Americans, the Government's long-term plan is to "do a Chagos (Diego Garcia)" on the inhabitants of Ascension - i.e., kick them out. I think these worries may be very justified. Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. From John at BurghHouse.com Tue May 8 15:20:39 2007 From: John at BurghHouse.com (John Turner) Date: Tue May 8 15:24:18 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil In-Reply-To: <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <000001c79173$aeb2abc0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Simon, You're quite right about the time people have spent there, and I'm glad you pointed it out. For that to happen, when you always knew it would, would be hard. But to grow up believing right to abode was just around the corner and then see it snatched away must be especially challenging. JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Simon Pipe Sent: 8 May 2007 13:14 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil I think John's response on right-of-abode misses an important point: that there are people who are born on Ascension, who grow up there and who may spend their entire working lives there, but at the end of their working lives will have no right to remain in their homeland. To have to emigrate at such a point, to another island that has never been home, must seem very hard, and I think it does raise an important issue of human rights. I should say I don't know that this has ever actually happened. Simon Pipe -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John Turner Sent: 08 May 2007 14:00 To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil I would not normally expect to find myself defending the British government, but in this case I must (though in a qualified way). The people of Chagos (Diego Garcia) had, I believe, lived there for a long time, and were evicted from their own island. Nobody ever had the right to live on Ascension Island, so the two cases are not really the same. As I understand it, the issue is that the islanders believed the British government was going to give them the right of abode, and then withdrew that. I'm not going to get into the debate about whether the islanders' belief was justified or not, but that was their belief, so when they were told recently that this was not going to happen they were, understandably, upset. They feel they were led on, and produce evidence for that belief. I have not seen any credible counter evidence produced by the FCO. Personally I doubt that the British government will move the Saints off Ascension Island, at least not in the foreseeable future. What they are paid for working there is peanuts compared with what British people would demand to go there, and the jobs need to be done. Why would a government chuck out a mass of cheap and largely uncomplaining labour? But I agree that is far less reassuring than a right of abode. My personal belief is that the decision to refuse right of abode is economic not military. If there was a right of abode, and Ascension Island's economy was to collapse, the British government would have to subsidise the island, as it does St.?Helena. So I believe it is merely managing its contingent liabilities. The military conspiracy theory is more attractive, I'm sure, but less credible. Incidentally, Saints go to Ascension (and the Falklands) for those wages because it is better than they can get here, which, in turn, shows just how bad incomes are in St.?Helena compared to the UK. Regards, John Turner Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Thomas Goodey Sent: 8 May 2007 11:40 To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil On 8 May 2007 at 13:23, Reino Bauer wrote: > See the article of the Glasgow Sunday Herald under > http://www.saint.fm/Independent/20070427.pdf Ah, interesting. It appears that the Ascension Council resigned in protest against the British Government's refusal to allow the people actually living on the island to have a formal right to continue to do so. It is suspected that, inspired by the Americans, the Government's long-term plan is to "do a Chagos (Diego Garcia)" on the inhabitants of Ascension - i.e., kick them out. I think these worries may be very justified. Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From John at BurghHouse.com Tue May 8 15:25:33 2007 From: John at BurghHouse.com (John Turner) Date: Tue May 8 15:29:11 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <000101c79174$5e918f20$2d0b000a@shgbank45> (further thoughts after I had pressed 'send' ....) What happens is that Saints leave their home (here) when they are 18-25 and go to work in Ascension. Potentially they stay there until they retire. They are then kicked out and forced to come back here. As there isn't currently a state pension system here, unless they have put savings aside for their retirement, when they return they are forced to live on social security. All-in-all quite a shock. The same applies to those who work on the Falklands. This is one of the social/economic problems St.?Helena has to address. JT -----Original Message----- From: John Turner [mailto:John@BurghHouse.com] Sent: 8 May 2007 13:21 To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil Simon, You're quite right about the time people have spent there, and I'm glad you pointed it out. For that to happen, when you always knew it would, would be hard. But to grow up believing right to abode was just around the corner and then see it snatched away must be especially challenging. JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Simon Pipe Sent: 8 May 2007 13:14 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil I think John's response on right-of-abode misses an important point: that there are people who are born on Ascension, who grow up there and who may spend their entire working lives there, but at the end of their working lives will have no right to remain in their homeland. To have to emigrate at such a point, to another island that has never been home, must seem very hard, and I think it does raise an important issue of human rights. I should say I don't know that this has ever actually happened. Simon Pipe -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John Turner Sent: 08 May 2007 14:00 To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil I would not normally expect to find myself defending the British government, but in this case I must (though in a qualified way). The people of Chagos (Diego Garcia) had, I believe, lived there for a long time, and were evicted from their own island. Nobody ever had the right to live on Ascension Island, so the two cases are not really the same. As I understand it, the issue is that the islanders believed the British government was going to give them the right of abode, and then withdrew that. I'm not going to get into the debate about whether the islanders' belief was justified or not, but that was their belief, so when they were told recently that this was not going to happen they were, understandably, upset. They feel they were led on, and produce evidence for that belief. I have not seen any credible counter evidence produced by the FCO. Personally I doubt that the British government will move the Saints off Ascension Island, at least not in the foreseeable future. What they are paid for working there is peanuts compared with what British people would demand to go there, and the jobs need to be done. Why would a government chuck out a mass of cheap and largely uncomplaining labour? But I agree that is far less reassuring than a right of abode. My personal belief is that the decision to refuse right of abode is economic not military. If there was a right of abode, and Ascension Island's economy was to collapse, the British government would have to subsidise the island, as it does St.?Helena. So I believe it is merely managing its contingent liabilities. The military conspiracy theory is more attractive, I'm sure, but less credible. Incidentally, Saints go to Ascension (and the Falklands) for those wages because it is better than they can get here, which, in turn, shows just how bad incomes are in St.?Helena compared to the UK. Regards, John Turner Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Thomas Goodey Sent: 8 May 2007 11:40 To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil On 8 May 2007 at 13:23, Reino Bauer wrote: > See the article of the Glasgow Sunday Herald under > http://www.saint.fm/Independent/20070427.pdf Ah, interesting. It appears that the Ascension Council resigned in protest against the British Government's refusal to allow the people actually living on the island to have a formal right to continue to do so. It is suspected that, inspired by the Americans, the Government's long-term plan is to "do a Chagos (Diego Garcia)" on the inhabitants of Ascension - i.e., kick them out. I think these worries may be very justified. Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From mwelfeld at hotmail.com Tue May 8 15:30:30 2007 From: mwelfeld at hotmail.com (Martin Welfeld) Date: Tue May 8 15:31:03 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil In-Reply-To: <000001c79173$aeb2abc0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: Should they be forced to leave for "another island", would they have the right/opportunity to move to the less sunny climes of the UK? I seem to remember that such a relocation was not possible. Would someone please address the relocation options? Marty Welfeld ----Original Message Follows---- From: "John Turner" Reply-To: John@burghhouse.com,"All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 13:20:39 -0000 Simon, You're quite right about the time people have spent there, and I'm glad you pointed it out. For that to happen, when you always knew it would, would be hard. But to grow up believing right to abode was just around the corner and then see it snatched away must be especially challenging. JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Simon Pipe Sent: 8 May 2007 13:14 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil I think John's response on right-of-abode misses an important point: that there are people who are born on Ascension, who grow up there and who may spend their entire working lives there, but at the end of their working lives will have no right to remain in their homeland. To have to emigrate at such a point, to another island that has never been home, must seem very hard, and I think it does raise an important issue of human rights. I should say I don't know that this has ever actually happened. Simon Pipe -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John Turner Sent: 08 May 2007 14:00 To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil I would not normally expect to find myself defending the British government, but in this case I must (though in a qualified way). The people of Chagos (Diego Garcia) had, I believe, lived there for a long time, and were evicted from their own island. Nobody ever had the right to live on Ascension Island, so the two cases are not really the same. As I understand it, the issue is that the islanders believed the British government was going to give them the right of abode, and then withdrew that. I'm not going to get into the debate about whether the islanders' belief was justified or not, but that was their belief, so when they were told recently that this was not going to happen they were, understandably, upset. They feel they were led on, and produce evidence for that belief. I have not seen any credible counter evidence produced by the FCO. Personally I doubt that the British government will move the Saints off Ascension Island, at least not in the foreseeable future. What they are paid for working there is peanuts compared with what British people would demand to go there, and the jobs need to be done. Why would a government chuck out a mass of cheap and largely uncomplaining labour? But I agree that is far less reassuring than a right of abode. My personal belief is that the decision to refuse right of abode is economic not military. If there was a right of abode, and Ascension Island's economy was to collapse, the British government would have to subsidise the island, as it does St. Helena. So I believe it is merely managing its contingent liabilities. The military conspiracy theory is more attractive, I'm sure, but less credible. Incidentally, Saints go to Ascension (and the Falklands) for those wages because it is better than they can get here, which, in turn, shows just how bad incomes are in St. Helena compared to the UK. Regards, John Turner Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Thomas Goodey Sent: 8 May 2007 11:40 To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil On 8 May 2007 at 13:23, Reino Bauer wrote: > See the article of the Glasgow Sunday Herald under > http://www.saint.fm/Independent/20070427.pdf Ah, interesting. It appears that the Ascension Council resigned in protest against the British Government's refusal to allow the people actually living on the island to have a formal right to continue to do so. It is suspected that, inspired by the Americans, the Government's long-term plan is to "do a Chagos (Diego Garcia)" on the inhabitants of Ascension - i.e., kick them out. I think these worries may be very justified. Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From sea_dragons at earthlink.net Tue May 8 15:39:12 2007 From: sea_dragons at earthlink.net (Christopher D. Lewis) Date: Tue May 8 15:39:42 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] right (or not) to inhabit Ascension In-Reply-To: <000101c79174$5e918f20$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <000101c79174$5e918f20$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <93D499FC-D153-4AF5-806D-6709AE257E1E@earthlink.net> On May 8, 2007, at 8:25 AM, John Turner wrote: > What happens is that Saints leave their home (here) when they are > 18-25 and > go to work in Ascension. Potentially they stay there until they > retire. > They are then kicked out and forced to come back here. Just so we're all clear ... these people who are kicked off the island: do they own property there? Do they rent from the government on the government land while working for the government? Do they have some other arrangement in regard to their dwelling that can be described in a nutshell? I understand that the UK may have different views on renters' rights (e.g., may be illegal to remove them even when they stop paying, and illegal to cut off utilities even though there's no lawful inhabitant) than obtains in some parts of the US (some states that don't have cold winters actually have formal support for government- supervised self-help eviction as a legal remedy). Therefore, there is ample opportunity here for misunderstanding what reasonable people would expect from their housing situation, but perhaps it'd help to understand who actually owns the land. Thanks, Chris From embrey at lineone.net Tue May 8 15:55:24 2007 From: embrey at lineone.net (John Embrey) Date: Tue May 8 15:55:14 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <009301c79178$87062b60$ae666f58@johnk11sqx1xnu> Someone born on Ascension may not have the right of abode anywhere else. Theoretically a stateless person John Embrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Pipe" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil >I think John's response on right-of-abode misses an important point: that >there are people who are born on Ascension, who grow up there and who may >spend their entire working lives there, but at the end of their working >lives will have no right to remain in their homeland. To have to emigrate >at such a point, to another island that has never been home, must seem very >hard, and I think it does raise an important issue of human rights. I >should say I don't know that this has ever actually happened. > > > Simon Pipe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf > Of John Turner > Sent: 08 May 2007 14:00 > To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' > Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil > > I would not normally expect to find myself defending the British > government, but in this case I must (though in a qualified way). > > The people of Chagos (Diego Garcia) had, I believe, lived there for a long > time, and were evicted from their own island. Nobody ever had the right > to live on Ascension Island, so the two cases are not really the same. > > As I understand it, the issue is that the islanders believed the British > government was going to give them the right of abode, and then withdrew > that. I'm not going to get into the debate about whether the islanders' > belief was justified or not, but that was their belief, so when they were > told recently that this was not going to happen they were, understandably, > upset. They feel they were led on, and produce evidence for that belief. > I have not seen any credible counter evidence produced by the FCO. > > Personally I doubt that the British government will move the Saints off > Ascension Island, at least not in the foreseeable future. What they are > paid for working there is peanuts compared with what British people would > demand to go there, and the jobs need to be done. Why would a government > chuck out a mass of cheap and largely uncomplaining labour? But I agree > that is far less reassuring than a right of abode. > > My personal belief is that the decision to refuse right of abode is > economic not military. If there was a right of abode, and Ascension > Island's economy was to collapse, the British government would have to > subsidise the island, as it does St. Helena. So I believe it is merely > managing its contingent liabilities. The military conspiracy theory is > more attractive, I'm sure, but less credible. > > Incidentally, Saints go to Ascension (and the Falklands) for those wages > because it is better than they can get here, which, in turn, shows just > how bad incomes are in St. Helena compared to the UK. > > Regards, > John Turner > > Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena > > (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South > Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) > > Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) > > NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are > confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, > and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone > else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are > not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, > copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken > in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply > and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf > Of Thomas Goodey > Sent: 8 May 2007 11:40 > To: list@sthelena.se > Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil > > On 8 May 2007 at 13:23, Reino Bauer wrote: > >> See the article of the Glasgow Sunday Herald under >> http://www.saint.fm/Independent/20070427.pdf > > Ah, interesting. It appears that the Ascension Council resigned in protest > against the British Government's refusal to allow the people actually > living on the island to have a formal right to continue to do so. It is > suspected that, inspired by the Americans, the Government's long-term plan > is to "do a Chagos (Diego Garcia)" on the inhabitants of Ascension - i.e., > kick them out. > > I think these worries may be very justified. > > Thomas Goodey > > ********************************* > The introduction of a multiplicity > of objectives into a problem not > only destroys its unity, but also > increases markedly both the > time necessary for, and the > actual personal danger involved > in, its solution. > ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII > ************************************** > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/ > This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal > views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. > If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. > Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in > reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. > Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. > Further communication will signify your consent to this. > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > From simon.pipe at bbc.co.uk Tue May 8 16:07:28 2007 From: simon.pipe at bbc.co.uk (Simon Pipe) Date: Tue May 8 16:07:55 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil In-Reply-To: <000101c79174$5e918f20$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45><3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <000101c79174$5e918f20$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C6@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> And John, before you and the bank arrived in St Helena, what was the likelihood of most Saints having worthwhile means of saving for retirement? I agree with your comment on the dashing of hope on Ascension. It has always amazed me that the people on St Helena aren't more aggressive about their situation - except, of course, that they can't afford to step out of line. And it's often struck me that we - and the Saints - have great affection for an island that has serious social injustices (by English standards). Simon Pipe North Oxfordshire reporter BBC Oxford 01295 258039 (no messages) 07834 846022 mobex 073 11373 (for BBC users) simon.pipe@bbc.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John Turner Sent: 08 May 2007 14:26 To: John@burghhouse.com; 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil (further thoughts after I had pressed 'send' ....) What happens is that Saints leave their home (here) when they are 18-25 and go to work in Ascension. Potentially they stay there until they retire. They are then kicked out and forced to come back here. As there isn't currently a state pension system here, unless they have put savings aside for their retirement, when they return they are forced to live on social security. All-in-all quite a shock. The same applies to those who work on the Falklands. This is one of the social/economic problems St.?Helena has to address. JT -----Original Message----- From: John Turner [mailto:John@BurghHouse.com] Sent: 8 May 2007 13:21 To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil Simon, You're quite right about the time people have spent there, and I'm glad you pointed it out. For that to happen, when you always knew it would, would be hard. But to grow up believing right to abode was just around the corner and then see it snatched away must be especially challenging. JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Simon Pipe Sent: 8 May 2007 13:14 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil I think John's response on right-of-abode misses an important point: that there are people who are born on Ascension, who grow up there and who may spend their entire working lives there, but at the end of their working lives will have no right to remain in their homeland. To have to emigrate at such a point, to another island that has never been home, must seem very hard, and I think it does raise an important issue of human rights. I should say I don't know that this has ever actually happened. Simon Pipe -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John Turner Sent: 08 May 2007 14:00 To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil I would not normally expect to find myself defending the British government, but in this case I must (though in a qualified way). The people of Chagos (Diego Garcia) had, I believe, lived there for a long time, and were evicted from their own island. Nobody ever had the right to live on Ascension Island, so the two cases are not really the same. As I understand it, the issue is that the islanders believed the British government was going to give them the right of abode, and then withdrew that. I'm not going to get into the debate about whether the islanders' belief was justified or not, but that was their belief, so when they were told recently that this was not going to happen they were, understandably, upset. They feel they were led on, and produce evidence for that belief. I have not seen any credible counter evidence produced by the FCO. Personally I doubt that the British government will move the Saints off Ascension Island, at least not in the foreseeable future. What they are paid for working there is peanuts compared with what British people would demand to go there, and the jobs need to be done. Why would a government chuck out a mass of cheap and largely uncomplaining labour? But I agree that is far less reassuring than a right of abode. My personal belief is that the decision to refuse right of abode is economic not military. If there was a right of abode, and Ascension Island's economy was to collapse, the British government would have to subsidise the island, as it does St.?Helena. So I believe it is merely managing its contingent liabilities. The military conspiracy theory is more attractive, I'm sure, but less credible. Incidentally, Saints go to Ascension (and the Falklands) for those wages because it is better than they can get here, which, in turn, shows just how bad incomes are in St.?Helena compared to the UK. Regards, John Turner Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Thomas Goodey Sent: 8 May 2007 11:40 To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil On 8 May 2007 at 13:23, Reino Bauer wrote: > See the article of the Glasgow Sunday Herald under > http://www.saint.fm/Independent/20070427.pdf Ah, interesting. It appears that the Ascension Council resigned in protest against the British Government's refusal to allow the people actually living on the island to have a formal right to continue to do so. It is suspected that, inspired by the Americans, the Government's long-term plan is to "do a Chagos (Diego Garcia)" on the inhabitants of Ascension - i.e., kick them out. I think these worries may be very justified. Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. From linsi_art at bluewin.ch Tue May 8 16:18:17 2007 From: linsi_art at bluewin.ch (Iris Linsi) Date: Tue May 8 16:18:09 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <002e01c7917b$b9884930$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq> You dont know that this has ever actually happened ? then please google .... 'Ascension - another Diego Garcia ? and think of the implications for St. Helena !! If people are really interested in the welfare of St. Helena - perhaps they should follow the articles on the net, e.g. 'Greenpeace comments' 'Debates in the House of Comments' etc. linsi of st. helena isle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Pipe" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 3:13 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil > I think John's response on right-of-abode misses an important point: that there are people who are born on Ascension, who grow up there and who may spend their entire working lives there, but at the end of their working lives will have no right to remain in their homeland. To have to emigrate at such a point, to another island that has never been home, must seem very hard, and I think it does raise an important issue of human rights. I should say I don't know that this has ever actually happened. > > > Simon Pipe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John Turner > Sent: 08 May 2007 14:00 > To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' > Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil > > I would not normally expect to find myself defending the British government, but in this case I must (though in a qualified way). > > The people of Chagos (Diego Garcia) had, I believe, lived there for a long time, and were evicted from their own island. Nobody ever had the right to live on Ascension Island, so the two cases are not really the same. > > As I understand it, the issue is that the islanders believed the British government was going to give them the right of abode, and then withdrew that. I'm not going to get into the debate about whether the islanders' > belief was justified or not, but that was their belief, so when they were told recently that this was not going to happen they were, understandably, upset. They feel they were led on, and produce evidence for that belief. I have not seen any credible counter evidence produced by the FCO. > > Personally I doubt that the British government will move the Saints off Ascension Island, at least not in the foreseeable future. What they are paid for working there is peanuts compared with what British people would demand to go there, and the jobs need to be done. Why would a government chuck out a mass of cheap and largely uncomplaining labour? But I agree that is far less reassuring than a right of abode. > > My personal belief is that the decision to refuse right of abode is economic not military. If there was a right of abode, and Ascension Island's economy was to collapse, the British government would have to subsidise the island, as it does St. Helena. So I believe it is merely managing its contingent liabilities. The military conspiracy theory is more attractive, I'm sure, but less credible. > > Incidentally, Saints go to Ascension (and the Falklands) for those wages because it is better than they can get here, which, in turn, shows just how bad incomes are in St. Helena compared to the UK. > > Regards, > John Turner > > Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena > > (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) > > Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) > > NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Thomas Goodey > Sent: 8 May 2007 11:40 > To: list@sthelena.se > Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil > > On 8 May 2007 at 13:23, Reino Bauer wrote: > > > See the article of the Glasgow Sunday Herald under > > http://www.saint.fm/Independent/20070427.pdf > > Ah, interesting. It appears that the Ascension Council resigned in protest against the British Government's refusal to allow the people actually living on the island to have a formal right to continue to do so. It is suspected that, inspired by the Americans, the Government's long-term plan is to "do a Chagos (Diego Garcia)" on the inhabitants of Ascension - i.e., kick them out. > > I think these worries may be very justified. > > Thomas Goodey > > ********************************* > The introduction of a multiplicity > of objectives into a problem not > only destroys its unity, but also > increases markedly both the > time necessary for, and the > actual personal danger involved > in, its solution. > ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII > ************************************** > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/ > This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. > If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. > Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. > Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. > Further communication will signify your consent to this. > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From sea_dragons at earthlink.net Tue May 8 16:32:46 2007 From: sea_dragons at earthlink.net (Christopher D. Lewis) Date: Tue May 8 16:33:14 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On May 8, 2007, at 8:55 AM, John Embrey wrote: > Someone born on Ascension may not have the right of abode anywhere > else. Theoretically a stateless person > I'm not sure that follows. Homelessness isn't statelessness. Ascension is part of the governmental unit containing St. Helena, and Saints are all UK citizens, no? I think the question is about the nature and extent of the present offense. I didn't gather that the problem was the creation of stateless refugees. If the problem is uncompensated seizure of property, it offends for different reasons (and perhaps different people) than would be the case if the inhabitants were renters in a land where eviction follows the end of a lease, and is contingent on employment. If the latter is the case, perhaps government is trading on people's willingness to work for peanuts without rights and without a pension protection system and has no compunction about ejecting those who can no longer work -- in short, perhaps government acts like business used to in Appalachia (rent from the Company landlord, buy from the Company store, all on Company credit, while making crummy Company wages). I'm just curious whether we're to be offended that land is being stolen, or offended that government didn't get in line for a heart before it decided how these people would be compensated and treated, or offended government lied to people about their status changing, or exactly what. I'm certainly prepared to be fully and adequately offended, I'm just a stickler for why ;-) Take care, Chris From simon.pipe at bbc.co.uk Tue May 8 17:26:27 2007 From: simon.pipe at bbc.co.uk (Simon Pipe) Date: Tue May 8 17:26:49 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil In-Reply-To: <002e01c7917b$b9884930$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45><3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <002e01c7917b$b9884930$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq> Message-ID: <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77CC@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> I have done as Linsi suggested and found articles that are indeed worth reading on Ascension. Though I still don't know whether anyone actually born on Ascension has lived there until retirement and then been forced to leave, although this is clearly what will happen in time if there is no change. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1707951,00.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,1688967,00.html Simon Pipe -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Iris Linsi Sent: 08 May 2007 15:18 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil You dont know that this has ever actually happened ? then please google .... 'Ascension - another Diego Garcia ? and think of the implications for St. Helena !! If people are really interested in the welfare of St. Helena - perhaps they should follow the articles on the net, e.g. 'Greenpeace comments' 'Debates in the House of Comments' etc. linsi of st. helena isle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Pipe" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 3:13 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil > I think John's response on right-of-abode misses an important point: that there are people who are born on Ascension, who grow up there and who may spend their entire working lives there, but at the end of their working lives will have no right to remain in their homeland. To have to emigrate at such a point, to another island that has never been home, must seem very hard, and I think it does raise an important issue of human rights. I should say I don't know that this has ever actually happened. > > > Simon Pipe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John Turner > Sent: 08 May 2007 14:00 > To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' > Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil > > I would not normally expect to find myself defending the British government, but in this case I must (though in a qualified way). > > The people of Chagos (Diego Garcia) had, I believe, lived there for a long time, and were evicted from their own island. Nobody ever had the right to live on Ascension Island, so the two cases are not really the same. > > As I understand it, the issue is that the islanders believed the British government was going to give them the right of abode, and then withdrew that. I'm not going to get into the debate about whether the islanders' > belief was justified or not, but that was their belief, so when they were told recently that this was not going to happen they were, understandably, upset. They feel they were led on, and produce evidence for that belief. I have not seen any credible counter evidence produced by the FCO. > > Personally I doubt that the British government will move the Saints off Ascension Island, at least not in the foreseeable future. What they are paid for working there is peanuts compared with what British people would demand to go there, and the jobs need to be done. Why would a government chuck out a mass of cheap and largely uncomplaining labour? But I agree that is far less reassuring than a right of abode. > > My personal belief is that the decision to refuse right of abode is economic not military. If there was a right of abode, and Ascension Island's economy was to collapse, the British government would have to subsidise the island, as it does St. Helena. So I believe it is merely managing its contingent liabilities. The military conspiracy theory is more attractive, I'm sure, but less credible. > > Incidentally, Saints go to Ascension (and the Falklands) for those wages because it is better than they can get here, which, in turn, shows just how bad incomes are in St. Helena compared to the UK. > > Regards, > John Turner > > Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena > > (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) > > Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) > > NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Thomas Goodey > Sent: 8 May 2007 11:40 > To: list@sthelena.se > Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil > > On 8 May 2007 at 13:23, Reino Bauer wrote: > > > See the article of the Glasgow Sunday Herald under > > http://www.saint.fm/Independent/20070427.pdf > > Ah, interesting. It appears that the Ascension Council resigned in protest against the British Government's refusal to allow the people actually living on the island to have a formal right to continue to do so. It is suspected that, inspired by the Americans, the Government's long-term plan is to "do a Chagos (Diego Garcia)" on the inhabitants of Ascension - i.e., kick them out. > > I think these worries may be very justified. > > Thomas Goodey > > ********************************* > The introduction of a multiplicity > of objectives into a problem not > only destroys its unity, but also > increases markedly both the > time necessary for, and the > actual personal danger involved > in, its solution. > ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII > ************************************** > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/ > This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. > If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. > Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. > Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. > Further communication will signify your consent to this. > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. From rbauer6115 at t-online.de Tue May 8 18:48:05 2007 From: rbauer6115 at t-online.de (Reino Bauer) Date: Tue May 8 18:48:58 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil In-Reply-To: <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77CC@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45><3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <002e01c7917b$b9884930$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq> <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77CC@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <4640A9C5.5060105@bigfoot.com> I see two aspects in this issue. One is the legal side of it and there I trust the lawyers of HMG that everything they do is covered by the books. On the other side Ascension Island is not an oil-platform where people go to work for a limited time. People have been brought to SH and Ascension centuries ago, in many cases probably also against their will. There is an anachronism that can not stay on in the 21st century. All comparisons limp, but it makes me think of the public foot paths that criss-cross the UK and are free to use by anybody even when they are on private ground. Because over the time people have acquired a right to do so. Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070508/0d1df333/attachment.htm From sea_dragons at earthlink.net Tue May 8 19:13:29 2007 From: sea_dragons at earthlink.net (Christopher D. Lewis) Date: Tue May 8 19:14:04 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil In-Reply-To: <4640A9C5.5060105@bigfoot.com> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45><3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <002e01c7917b$b9884930$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq> <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77CC@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <4640A9C5.5060105@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <4C7433AF-CD74-41BC-B6FA-4134C447F41A@earthlink.net> On May 8, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Reino Bauer wrote: > I see two aspects in this issue. One is the legal side of it and > there I > trust the lawyers of HMG that everything they do is covered by the > books. If what I've read about the Diego Garcia case is right, HMG lawyers weren't asked or got it wrong. What I read was that the people were removed and it was bad, but that HMG was losing its court fight. On May 8, 2007, at 10:26 AM, Simon Pipe wrote: > I have done as Linsi suggested and found articles that are indeed > worth > reading on Ascension. Though I still don't know whether anyone > actually > born on Ascension has lived there until retirement and then been > forced > to leave, although this is clearly what will happen in time if > there is > no change. The articles linked suggest the government is removing from property those who purchased it in good faith, and for value. I know how this case would turn out in the US, but Ascension isn't the US. As my sister so entertainingly reported from Canada, there is no Fifth Amendment (despite criminals' attempts to rely on it under interrogation or at trial, whoops). On Ascension, the absence of a Fifth Amendment (which bars taking private property without just compensation) isn't funny at all. Do private persons have property rights to assert against activity that is expedient for the military, or activity that is desirable for government officials? Given that the government has reportedly so far lost its litigation over Diego Garcia (I haven't been looking at the cases, but reports; please send updated links if I'm looking at outdated or outright wrong information), I'd think trying more of the same on Ascension would be foolish and costly. On May 8, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Reino Bauer wrote: > On the other side Ascension Island is not an oil-platform where > people go to work for a limited time. People have been brought to > SH and > Ascension centuries ago, in many cases probably also against their > will. > There is an anachronism that can not stay on in the 21st century. All > comparisons limp, but it makes me think of the public foot paths that > criss-cross the UK and are free to use by anybody even when they > are on > private ground. Because over the time people have acquired a right > to do > so. The question to me is whether people were brought there to work and set up in employer-provided housing, brought there to work and made to rent from someone, or brought there to work and sold land and homes only to be told later they must leave the land. I think the latter case is much different from the former ones, and much crueler. Assuming they'd compensate people for their homes, how would you calculate it? Based on local home prices, and not based on what they'd have bought in the UK had they worked in the UK at UK rates and been in a position to purchase UK real estate? If people were sold land and are being kicked off, it's fairly despicable even if they are being "paid" for it. The footpaths analogy don't help us from a legal perspective, unfortunately, unless property law in England is different than I imagine. The United States has (outside perhaps Louisiana, which is a civil code jurisdiction) common law property rules adopted as they existed at the time the US stopped being a colony (entertainingly, US jurisdictions consider the "common law" of property to include the statutes Parliament had enacted prior to the revolution). The rule on adverse possession (acquisition of ownership rights by use) does let people acquire rights against other individuals with putative property rights, but one cannot acquire rights by adverse possession against the government. In the US, the reverse is true, too: government can't claim your land just because government used it long enough. Government must pay just compensation for what it wishes to take; because it has the power to condemn and force the sale of property, it need not be granted the right to adverse possession. I'm keen to hear the property angle on this under UK law. If property rights are truly illusory under UK law, I'll definitely have to advise clients there may be strong reasons simply to rent. Take care, Chris From linsi_art at bluewin.ch Tue May 8 23:12:25 2007 From: linsi_art at bluewin.ch (Iris Linsi) Date: Tue May 8 23:12:18 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45><3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <002e01c7917b$b9884930$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq><3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77CC@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk><4640A9C5.5060105@bigfoot.com> <4C7433AF-CD74-41BC-B6FA-4134C447F41A@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000501c791b5$93ebf110$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq> The last I heard/read was that HMG lost the court case - but nothing is being done !! Read further: John Pilger: Stealing a Nation - News you won't find on CNN However, this is not a matter of Ascension ! I ask: What are the implications for the island of St. Helena ? Why do I read in 'House of Commons Papers' that the Airport matter is 'shrouded in secrecy' Iris Linsi of St. Helena Isle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher D. Lewis" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil > > On May 8, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Reino Bauer wrote: > > > I see two aspects in this issue. One is the legal side of it and > > there I > > trust the lawyers of HMG that everything they do is covered by the > > books. > > If what I've read about the Diego Garcia case is right, HMG lawyers > weren't asked or got it wrong. What I read was that the people were > removed and it was bad, but that HMG was losing its court fight. > > On May 8, 2007, at 10:26 AM, Simon Pipe wrote: > > I have done as Linsi suggested and found articles that are indeed > > worth > > reading on Ascension. Though I still don't know whether anyone > > actually > > born on Ascension has lived there until retirement and then been > > forced > > to leave, although this is clearly what will happen in time if > > there is > > no change. > > The articles linked suggest the government is removing from property > those who purchased it in good faith, and for value. I know how this > case would turn out in the US, but Ascension isn't the US. As my > sister so entertainingly reported from Canada, there is no Fifth > Amendment (despite criminals' attempts to rely on it under > interrogation or at trial, whoops). On Ascension, the absence of a > Fifth Amendment (which bars taking private property without just > compensation) isn't funny at all. > > Do private persons have property rights to assert against activity > that is expedient for the military, or activity that is desirable for > government officials? Given that the government has reportedly so > far lost its litigation over Diego Garcia (I haven't been looking at > the cases, but reports; please send updated links if I'm looking at > outdated or outright wrong information), I'd think trying more of the > same on Ascension would be foolish and costly. > > On May 8, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Reino Bauer wrote: > > > On the other side Ascension Island is not an oil-platform where > > people go to work for a limited time. People have been brought to > > SH and > > Ascension centuries ago, in many cases probably also against their > > will. > > There is an anachronism that can not stay on in the 21st century. All > > comparisons limp, but it makes me think of the public foot paths that > > criss-cross the UK and are free to use by anybody even when they > > are on > > private ground. Because over the time people have acquired a right > > to do > > so. > > The question to me is whether people were brought there to work and > set up in employer-provided housing, brought there to work and made > to rent from someone, or brought there to work and sold land and > homes only to be told later they must leave the land. I think the > latter case is much different from the former ones, and much > crueler. Assuming they'd compensate people for their homes, how > would you calculate it? Based on local home prices, and not based on > what they'd have bought in the UK had they worked in the UK at UK > rates and been in a position to purchase UK real estate? If people > were sold land and are being kicked off, it's fairly despicable even > if they are being "paid" for it. > > The footpaths analogy don't help us from a legal perspective, > unfortunately, unless property law in England is different than I > imagine. The United States has (outside perhaps Louisiana, which is > a civil code jurisdiction) common law property rules adopted as they > existed at the time the US stopped being a colony (entertainingly, US > jurisdictions consider the "common law" of property to include the > statutes Parliament had enacted prior to the revolution). The rule > on adverse possession (acquisition of ownership rights by use) does > let people acquire rights against other individuals with putative > property rights, but one cannot acquire rights by adverse possession > against the government. In the US, the reverse is true, too: > government can't claim your land just because government used it long > enough. Government must pay just compensation for what it wishes to > take; because it has the power to condemn and force the sale of > property, it need not be granted the right to adverse possession. > > I'm keen to hear the property angle on this under UK law. If > property rights are truly illusory under UK law, I'll definitely have > to advise clients there may be strong reasons simply to rent. > > Take care, > Chris > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From nanystrom at yahoo.com Tue May 8 23:29:12 2007 From: nanystrom at yahoo.com (Nissa Nystrom) Date: Tue May 8 23:29:40 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re: Diego Garcia In-Reply-To: <000501c791b5$93ebf110$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq> Message-ID: <749335.48883.qm@web54509.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Iris, I finally had time to research the island of Diego Garcia. Sorry it has taken me so much time to get to it. It is a frightening prospect to think that the same scenario could very well happen to the island of St. Helena and its people. I wonder if everyone else on the list is aware of the history of Diego Garcia and what has happened to its people in the course of the UK and the US bolstering their military reach and power. I encourage everyone to look into it if you aren't up to speed. The parallels with St. Helena are eye opening. Thanks Iris. Nissa Fargo, ND USA --- Iris Linsi wrote: > The last I heard/read was that HMG lost the court > case - but nothing is > being done !! Read further: > > John Pilger: Stealing a Nation - News you won't find > on CNN > > However, this is not a matter of Ascension ! I ask: > What are the > implications for the island of St. Helena ? Why do I > read in 'House of > Commons Papers' that the Airport matter is 'shrouded > in secrecy' > > Iris Linsi of St. Helena Isle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher D. Lewis" > > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South > Atlantic(Eng)" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 7:13 PM > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political > turmoil > > > > > > On May 8, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Reino Bauer wrote: > > > > > I see two aspects in this issue. One is the > legal side of it and > > > there I > > > trust the lawyers of HMG that everything they do > is covered by the > > > books. > > > > If what I've read about the Diego Garcia case is > right, HMG lawyers > > weren't asked or got it wrong. What I read was > that the people were > > removed and it was bad, but that HMG was losing > its court fight. > > > > On May 8, 2007, at 10:26 AM, Simon Pipe wrote: > > > I have done as Linsi suggested and found > articles that are indeed > > > worth > > > reading on Ascension. Though I still don't know > whether anyone > > > actually > > > born on Ascension has lived there until > retirement and then been > > > forced > > > to leave, although this is clearly what will > happen in time if > > > there is > > > no change. > > > > The articles linked suggest the government is > removing from property > > those who purchased it in good faith, and for > value. I know how this > > case would turn out in the US, but Ascension isn't > the US. As my > > sister so entertainingly reported from Canada, > there is no Fifth > > Amendment (despite criminals' attempts to rely on > it under > > interrogation or at trial, whoops). On Ascension, > the absence of a > > Fifth Amendment (which bars taking private > property without just > > compensation) isn't funny at all. > > > > Do private persons have property rights to assert > against activity > > that is expedient for the military, or activity > that is desirable for > > government officials? Given that the government > has reportedly so > > far lost its litigation over Diego Garcia (I > haven't been looking at > > the cases, but reports; please send updated links > if I'm looking at > > outdated or outright wrong information), I'd think > trying more of the > > same on Ascension would be foolish and costly. > > > > On May 8, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Reino Bauer wrote: > > > > > On the other side Ascension Island is not an > oil-platform where > > > people go to work for a limited time. People > have been brought to > > > SH and > > > Ascension centuries ago, in many cases probably > also against their > > > will. > > > There is an anachronism that can not stay on in > the 21st century. All > > > comparisons limp, but it makes me think of the > public foot paths that > > > criss-cross the UK and are free to use by > anybody even when they > > > are on > > > private ground. Because over the time people > have acquired a right > > > to do > > > so. > > > > The question to me is whether people were brought > there to work and > > set up in employer-provided housing, brought there > to work and made > > to rent from someone, or brought there to work and > sold land and > > homes only to be told later they must leave the > land. I think the > > latter case is much different from the former > ones, and much > > crueler. Assuming they'd compensate people for > their homes, how > > would you calculate it? Based on local home > prices, and not based on > > what they'd have bought in the UK had they worked > in the UK at UK > > rates and been in a position to purchase UK real > estate? If people > > were sold land and are being kicked off, it's > fairly despicable even > > if they are being "paid" for it. > > > > The footpaths analogy don't help us from a legal > perspective, > > unfortunately, unless property law in England is > different than I > > imagine. The United States has (outside perhaps > Louisiana, which is > > a civil code jurisdiction) common law property > rules adopted as they > > existed at the time the US stopped being a colony > (entertainingly, US > > jurisdictions consider the "common law" of > property to include the > > statutes Parliament had enacted prior to the > revolution). The rule > > on adverse possession (acquisition of ownership > rights by use) does > > let people acquire rights against other > individuals with putative > > property rights, but one cannot acquire rights by > adverse possession > > against the government. In the US, the reverse is > true, too: > > government can't claim your land just because > government used it long > > enough. Government must pay just compensation for > what it wishes to > > take; because it has the power to condemn and > force the sale of > > property, it need not be granted the right to > adverse possession. > > > > I'm keen to hear the property angle on this under > UK law. If > > property rights are truly illusory under UK law, > I'll definitely have > > to advise clients there may be strong reasons > simply to rent. > > > > Take care, > > Chris > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm > mail. > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From linsi_art at bluewin.ch Tue May 8 23:29:48 2007 From: linsi_art at bluewin.ch (Iris Linsi) Date: Tue May 8 23:29:43 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45><3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <002e01c7917b$b9884930$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq><3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77CC@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <4640A9C5.5060105@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <001c01c791b8$018ff4d0$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq> Reino - this has nothing to do with 'public footpaths' and 'the books' or 'anachronism' . It has to do with world politics - TODAY - HERE AND NOW !!! Linsi of St. Helena Isle ----- Original Message ----- From: Reino Bauer To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil I see two aspects in this issue. One is the legal side of it and there I trust the lawyers of HMG that everything they do is covered by the books. On the other side Ascension Island is not an oil-platform where people go to work for a limited time. People have been brought to SH and Ascension centuries ago, in many cases probably also against their will. There is an anachronism that can not stay on in the 21st century. All comparisons limp, but it makes me think of the public foot paths that criss-cross the UK and are free to use by anybody even when they are on private ground. Because over the time people have acquired a right to do so. Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) has notified the sender that this message has been received. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070508/141d8f8a/attachment.htm From linsi_art at bluewin.ch Wed May 9 00:46:14 2007 From: linsi_art at bluewin.ch (Iris Linsi) Date: Wed May 9 00:46:09 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45><3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <002e01c7917b$b9884930$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq><3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77CC@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <4640A9C5.5060105@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <002101c791c2$af0100f0$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq> Reino People were not 'brought' but 'went' to st. Helena centuries ago as 'servants' of the 'English East India Company' - i..e. Servants of ' The Crown' - to protect, populate and nurture the island to assure provisions of their ships travelling to the East- and 'primarily' certainly not against their will !!. Ascension Island was only 'populated' in the 19th century when the British Government saw fit to protect St. Helena from the French who might want to free 'Napoleon'. Linsi of st. helena isle ----- Original Message ----- From: Reino Bauer To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil I see two aspects in this issue. One is the legal side of it and there I trust the lawyers of HMG that everything they do is covered by the books. On the other side Ascension Island is not an oil-platform where people go to work for a limited time. People have been brought to SH and Ascension centuries ago, in many cases probably also against their will. There is an anachronism that can not stay on in the 21st century. All comparisons limp, but it makes me think of the public foot paths that criss-cross the UK and are free to use by anybody even when they are on private ground. Because over the time people have acquired a right to do so. Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) has notified the sender that this message has been received. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070509/96b2cfa2/attachment.htm From manager at sainthelenabank.com Wed May 9 11:54:09 2007 From: manager at sainthelenabank.com (Manager, Bank of St. Helena) Date: Wed May 9 11:57:52 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Message-ID: <001601c79220$00fae580$2d0b000a@shgbank45> I'll try to pick up as many of the 'overnight thoughts' as I can, though I'm not an expert on the legal aspects so I apologise if my understanding is incorrect and I accidentally mislead. I'm sure I will be corrected by somebody on the list if what I say is wrong in any material sense. Firstly, let's be clear - the situation on Ascension is different from the situation on St. Helena. In St. Helena one can buy property with freehold tenure (which basically means you own it unless it is forcibly 'purchased' from you by a government decision, just as is the case in the UK). I know this for a personal fact because I have done it. In Ascension one cannot buy property, and never could (though I believe some of the people on Ascension thought they had bought property and have now been told that they hadn't, though what they had paid for remains a mystery). You cannot even lease property on Ascension. You can occupy it by 'licence'; a legal trick that gives you permission to occupy it but creates no right to remain there. The issue at stake is the refusal by the UK Government to give the people living on Ascension the right to own property. The ability of Saints (and others) to own property on St. Helena is not in question (at least, not as far as I know ....!) My best guess is that a person born on Ascension of Saint parents is a Saint so should have the right of abode on St. Helena. So statelessness is not an issue either. It is the case that a Saint can go to live and work in the UK. As they will pay taxes and 'National Insurance contributions' (which, for the non-UK persons on the list, is another form of income tax but given a different name in an attempt to disguise it), they will be entitled to NHS care if they fall ill and (presumably) a state pension if they retire there. Saints working on Ascension and The Falklands are not required to pay anything towards state retirement or sickness benefits, so if they are long-term sick, unemployed or beyond retirement age they are not able to remain there (unless, perhaps, they have relatives or friends there paying for all their costs). I'm not sure if that will close down any of the threads or merely ignite new evolutionary ones, but I hope it's helpful. To my mind the real issue for St. Helena is why Saints need to leave their home in search of work. What I would like to see is people being able to have a career here. As I have mentioned before, having most of the able-bodied people between 18 and 50 off-island causes many social problems. Imagine how your country would operate if all the people of that age range were missing? To get them back we need to create an economy where there are real opportunities for young to middle-aged people. Then most of the issues we have been discussing above would either go away or at least reduce in importance. John Turner Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070509/931343ca/attachment.htm From rp at t-kartor.se Wed May 9 12:27:55 2007 From: rp at t-kartor.se (Rich Perkins) Date: Wed May 9 12:24:01 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension In-Reply-To: <001601c79220$00fae580$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20070509121536.03820d70@194.52.167.3> Going off topic from the problems on Ascension, I apologise, but something John wrote has triggered something i've been meaning to find out for ages but keep forgetting. I'm well aware that most working age people leave the Island to take advantage of better opportunities elsewhere, but am wondering if there is an official demographic statistical breakdown for the Island anywhere? Just a simple break down of percentage of people in different age groups would be interesting to see, and maybe Male/female as well. Any idea if Official Stats are available anywhere? > >To my mind the real issue for St. Helena is why Saints need to leave their >home in search of work. What I would like to see is people being able to >have a career here. As I have mentioned before, having most of the >able-bodied people between 18 and 50 off-island causes many social >problems. Imagine how your country would operate if all the people of >that age range were missing? To get them back we need to create an >economy where there are real opportunities for young to middle-aged >people. Then most of the issues we have been discussing above would >either go away or at least reduce in importance. V?nliga h?lsningar / Regards Rich ******************************************** Richard Perkins T-Kartor Sweden AB Box 5097 S-291 05 Kristianstad SWEDEN tel: (direkt) +46 44 20 68 11 tel: (v?xel/switchboard) +46 44 20 68 00 tel: (British mobile) +44 7968 799881 fax: +46 44 12 82 56 e-mail: rp@t-kartor.se http://www.t-kartor.se map:http://www.karthotellet.com/ ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070509/66cf9ce8/attachment.htm From john at burghhouse.com Wed May 9 12:37:06 2007 From: john at burghhouse.com (John Turner) Date: Wed May 9 12:40:49 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20070509121536.03820d70@194.52.167.3> References: <001601c79220$00fae580$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <5.1.1.6.0.20070509121536.03820d70@194.52.167.3> Message-ID: <004201c79226$008de420$2d0b000a@shgbank45> I can provide a few figures from a recent report: Population and education Year of reference Data Total number of inhabitants 2006 (31 July) 3,927 (estimated) Share of population aged 15 and below in the population 2004 Share of those over 60 in the population 2004 20% approximately Population growth rate (average %) 1998-2006 - 3.1% Does that help? Note that 'population' probably only includes those that have St. Helena Status, i.e. the right to work here without needing a work permit. Or it may be the (smaller) group of those who have the right to buy property here without needing a landholding licence. The report does not clarify. JT _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Rich Perkins Sent: 9 May 2007 10:28 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Ascension Going off topic from the problems on Ascension, I apologise, but something John wrote has triggered something i've been meaning to find out for ages but keep forgetting. I'm well aware that most working age people leave the Island to take advantage of better opportunities elsewhere, but am wondering if there is an official demographic statistical breakdown for the Island anywhere? Just a simple break down of percentage of people in different age groups would be interesting to see, and maybe Male/female as well. Any idea if Official Stats are available anywhere? To my mind the real issue for St. Helena is why Saints need to leave their home in search of work. What I would like to see is people being able to have a career here. As I have mentioned before, having most of the able-bodied people between 18 and 50 off-island causes many social problems. Imagine how your country would operate if all the people of that age range were missing? To get them back we need to create an economy where there are real opportunities for young to middle-aged people. Then most of the issues we have been discussing above would either go away or at least reduce in importance. V?nliga h?lsningar / Regards Rich ******************************************** Richard Perkins T-Kartor Sweden AB Box 5097 S-291 05 Kristianstad SWEDEN tel: (direkt) +46 44 20 68 11 tel: (v?xel/switchboard) +46 44 20 68 00 tel: (British mobile) +44 7968 799881 fax: +46 44 12 82 56 e-mail: rp@t-kartor.se http://www.t-kartor.se map:http://www.karthotellet.com/ ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070509/28e47618/attachment.htm From rp at t-kartor.se Wed May 9 13:01:35 2007 From: rp at t-kartor.se (Rich Perkins) Date: Wed May 9 12:57:29 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension In-Reply-To: <004201c79226$008de420$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20070509121536.03820d70@194.52.167.3> <001601c79220$00fae580$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <5.1.1.6.0.20070509121536.03820d70@194.52.167.3> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20070509125303.037d68b0@194.52.167.3> Thanks, John. Sadly it doesn't particularly help - the UK has 21% over 60's (and 19% under 18), meaning that it is approximately the same as St. Helena. Thus the Island is no better or worse in terms of workforce, statistically speaking, which contradicts both my general understanding of the Islands demographics and your comment about most of the able bodied workers between 18 and 50* being off island. * Note, with such a wide age grouping, if there are a large percentage of people on the island between 50 and 60 (i suspect there could well be) &/or early retired people &/or those unable to work for health reasons, it could still prove that point. But in this day and age, people are expected to work into their 60's pretty much all over the world anyway. At 10:37 2007-05-09 +0000, you wrote: >I can provide a few figures from a recent report: > > >Population and education"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> > >Year of reference > >Data > >Total number of inhabitants > >2006 (31 July) > >3,927 (estimated) > >Share of population aged 15 and below in the population > >2004 > > > >Share of those over 60 in the population > >2004 > >20% approximately > >Population growth rate (average %) > >1998-2006 > >- 3.1% > > >Does that help? > >Note that 'population' probably only includes those that have St. Helena >Status, i.e. the right to work here without needing a work permit. Or it >may be the (smaller) group of those who have the right to buy property >here without needing a landholding licence. The report does not clarify. > >JT > > > > >---------- >From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf >Of Rich Perkins >Sent: 9 May 2007 10:28 >To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) >Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Ascension > >Going off topic from the problems on Ascension, I apologise, but something >John wrote has triggered something i've been meaning to find out for ages >but keep forgetting. > >I'm well aware that most working age people leave the Island to take >advantage of better opportunities elsewhere, but am wondering if there is >an official demographic statistical breakdown for the Island anywhere? > >Just a simple break down of percentage of people in different age groups >would be interesting to see, and maybe Male/female as well. Any idea if >Official Stats are available anywhere? > >> >>To my mind the real issue for St. Helena is why Saints need to leave >>their home in search of work. What I would like to see is people being >>able to have a career here. As I have mentioned before, having most of >>the able-bodied people between 18 and 50 off-island causes many social >>problems. Imagine how your country would operate if all the people of >>that age range were missing? To get them back we need to create an >>economy where there are real opportunities for young to middle-aged >>people. Then most of the issues we have been discussing above would >>either go away or at least reduce in importance. > > > >V?nliga h?lsningar / Regards >Rich > >******************************************** >Richard Perkins >T-Kartor Sweden AB >Box 5097 >S-291 05 Kristianstad >SWEDEN > >tel: (direkt) +46 44 20 68 11 >tel: (v?xel/switchboard) +46 44 20 68 00 >tel: (British mobile) +44 7968 799881 > >fax: +46 44 12 82 56 > >e-mail: rp@t-kartor.se >http://www.t-kartor.se >map:http://www.karthotellet.com/ >******************************************** >The S:t Helena Mailing List >To unsubscribe please send a email to: >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. V?nliga h?lsningar / Regards Rich ******************************************** Richard Perkins T-Kartor Sweden AB Box 5097 S-291 05 Kristianstad SWEDEN tel: (direkt) +46 44 20 68 11 tel: (v?xel/switchboard) +46 44 20 68 00 tel: (British mobile) +44 7968 799881 fax: +46 44 12 82 56 e-mail: rp@t-kartor.se http://www.t-kartor.se map:http://www.karthotellet.com/ ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070509/f80e2f67/attachment.htm From john at burghhouse.com Wed May 9 13:07:59 2007 From: john at burghhouse.com (John Turner) Date: Wed May 9 13:26:44 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20070509125303.037d68b0@194.52.167.3> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20070509121536.03820d70@194.52.167.3> <001601c79220$00fae580$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <5.1.1.6.0.20070509121536.03820d70@194.52.167.3> <5.1.1.6.0.20070509125303.037d68b0@194.52.167.3> Message-ID: <005d01c7922a$56ea0ed0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> It may be that the author included the off-island Saints in his figures. It's good point. I'll check it. JT _____ From: Rich Perkins [mailto:rp@t-kartor.se] Sent: 9 May 2007 11:02 To: john@burghhouse.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Thanks, John. Sadly it doesn't particularly help - the UK has 21% over 60's (and 19% under 18), meaning that it is approximately the same as St. Helena. Thus the Island is no better or worse in terms of workforce, statistically speaking, which contradicts both my general understanding of the Islands demographics and your comment about most of the able bodied workers between 18 and 50* being off island. * Note, with such a wide age grouping, if there are a large percentage of people on the island between 50 and 60 (i suspect there could well be) &/or early retired people &/or those unable to work for health reasons, it could still prove that point. But in this day and age, people are expected to work into their 60's pretty much all over the world anyway. At 10:37 2007-05-09 +0000, you wrote: I can provide a few figures from a recent report: Population and education Year of reference Data Total number of inhabitants 2006 (31 July) 3,927 (estimated) Share of population aged 15 and below in the population 2004 Share of those over 60 in the population 2004 20% approximately Population growth rate (average %) 1998-2006 - 3.1% Does that help? Note that 'population' probably only includes those that have St. Helena Status, i.e. the right to work here without needing a work permit. Or it may be the (smaller) group of those who have the right to buy property here without needing a landholding licence. The report does not clarify. JT _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Rich Perkins Sent: 9 May 2007 10:28 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Ascension Going off topic from the problems on Ascension, I apologise, but something John wrote has triggered something i've been meaning to find out for ages but keep forgetting. I'm well aware that most working age people leave the Island to take advantage of better opportunities elsewhere, but am wondering if there is an official demographic statistical breakdown for the Island anywhere? Just a simple break down of percentage of people in different age groups would be interesting to see, and maybe Male/female as well. Any idea if Official Stats are available anywhere? To my mind the real issue for St. Helena is why Saints need to leave their home in search of work. What I would like to see is people being able to have a career here. As I have mentioned before, having most of the able-bodied people between 18 and 50 off-island causes many social problems. Imagine how your country would operate if all the people of that age range were missing? To get them back we need to create an economy where there are real opportunities for young to middle-aged people. Then most of the issues we have been discussing above would either go away or at least reduce in importance. V?nliga h?lsningar / Regards Rich ******************************************** Richard Perkins T-Kartor Sweden AB Box 5097 S-291 05 Kristianstad SWEDEN tel: (direkt) +46 44 20 68 11 tel: (v?xel/switchboard) +46 44 20 68 00 tel: (British mobile) +44 7968 799881 fax: +46 44 12 82 56 e-mail: rp@t-kartor.se http://www.t-kartor.se map:http://www.karthotellet.com/ ******************************************** The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. V?nliga h?lsningar / Regards Rich ******************************************** Richard Perkins T-Kartor Sweden AB Box 5097 S-291 05 Kristianstad SWEDEN tel: (direkt) +46 44 20 68 11 tel: (v?xel/switchboard) +46 44 20 68 00 tel: (British mobile) +44 7968 799881 fax: +46 44 12 82 56 e-mail: rp@t-kartor.se http://www.t-kartor.se map:http://www.karthotellet.com/ ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070509/5cc71fce/attachment.htm From manager at sainthelenabank.com Wed May 9 14:59:26 2007 From: manager at sainthelenabank.com (Manager, Bank of St. Helena) Date: Wed May 9 15:06:42 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Museum stock list Message-ID: <001601c79239$e3dcad70$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Someone (sorry, can't remember who) asked about what is on sale at the Museum in Jamestown. Here is a fairly comprehensive list. (I can email this list in PDF if anyone wants.) As soon as their website is fully running I'm sure you will be able to get an up-to-the-minute list and maybe even place orders. Until then email Museum@helanta.sh or, better still, hop on the ship and visit in person .... (go on - you know you want to). Regards, John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. Books A Natural History: St Helena and Ascension Island Drake and St Helena National Geographical Magazine One Man's Island Poetic Profile Q5: 500 Years of History SNCG Bird Books St Helena 500 St Helena Euchre St Helena Illustrated St Helena in Focus St Helena Proclamations St Helena, South Atlantic Ocean The Bradt Travel Guide Tristan Da Cunha Wirebird Journal Plaster Casts Bishop's Seal Bust of Napoleon Cap Badge St Helena Rifles Regiment Governor's Seal Local Militia Hat Badge Lord Nelson Napoleon Napoleon/Marie Louise Oval East India Company St Helena Island View/French Medal St Helena Volunteers Belt Plate Brass Coated Plaster Casts Arms of British East India Company 1750 Belt Plate St Helena Volunteers Clothing Hooded Sweatshirts: Dolphin / Hooded Sweatshirt: St Helena Island SAO T-Shirts: Arum Lily / Dolphin / Green Planet / Hooked on St Helena / I Love St Helena / I'm Crazy / Jacob's Ladder / Jonathan the Tortoise / Ladies Shirt / Main Street Jamestown / Map of St Helena (on Front) / Multi-Coloured Hump Back Whale / Multi-Coloured Tortoise / Museum Of St Helena / My Grandma / Someone Special / St Helena Island SAO / Wharf Jamestown / Wirebird Golf Shirts: Heritage Logo / Saint Helena, SAO. Notelets Arms EIC until 1836 Porteus House Royal Arms 1836 Post Cards 48 different images Accessories Amber stones on silver bracelets Bracelet Caps Earrings Ebony Necklaces Necklaces on chain Seed Necklace Shopping Bags Wooden Beaded Bracelets Household Aprons: Arum Lily / Multi-Coloured Tortoise / Wirebird Ashtrays: Colony Badge / Jonathan / Wirebird Beer Tankards - China Beer Tankards - Glass Chelsea Mugs Cocoa/Coffee Mugs Cushion Covers Eggs on Legs (Egg Cups) Framed Poems Prestige Coasters (Sets of 6) Spoon Rest Table Cloths Tray Cloths: Arum Lilly / Wirebird Wirebird Coasters (Sets of 2) Stationery Pencil Cases Pencils Plastic Rulers Maps Bellins' A French Cartographer Oglbys Africa View of the Island Miscellaneous Items Ascension Island DVD Ascension Island Video tape Bead Tortoise Key ring Beanie Tortoise Blank Frame Fridge Magnets Cards: A Days Fishing on St Helena / Embroidery Ceramic Tortoise Cloth Sand Tortoise Decoupage Digital Picture CD Postcard Envelopes Fridge Magnets: Island Scenes / A Days Fishing on St Helena / Embroidery Greetings Cards Key rings : A Days Fishing on St Helena / Embroidery Knitted Teddies Lace Bookmarkers Lanyard Key rings Leather Bookmarks Leather Key rings Message in a Box (MSG's) Napoleon Prints Pictures: A Days Fishing on St Helena / Embroidery Postal Tubes Presentation Boxes St Helena Island Tape Stone Carved Tortoise -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070509/5b1cd040/attachment.htm From joocee at btopenworld.com Wed May 9 16:13:15 2007 From: joocee at btopenworld.com (JULIET COTTAM) Date: Wed May 9 16:13:42 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Museum stock list References: <001601c79239$e3dcad70$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <002701c79244$3686e4f0$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> MessageThanks for that Museum list, John - very comprehensive for a place with small tourist numbers per annum. It probably was my enquiry as to the availability of the black and white prints in the museum shop, that triggered the publication of that list. On my last visit I did not have a too much time, to forage around the Museum, but what I did see really impressed me - well worth much longer when I visit in August - RMS willing and able !!! Another query to which I should know the answer - are the visitors from the RMS.allowed to use that Olympic sized swimming pool of yours- the lack of lenght in the puddle on the RMS.is a little frustrating for a soul who likes her daily dog paddle ! I would endorse your plea - hop on the ship - I've done it once, and am booked to do it again, with a longer stay, during the Ascension-shuttle. Roll on August! Juliet. ----- Original Message ----- From: Manager, Bank of St. Helena To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Cc: museum@helanta.sh Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:59 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Museum stock list Someone (sorry, can't remember who) asked about what is on sale at the Museum in Jamestown. Here is a fairly comprehensive list. (I can email this list in PDF if anyone wants.) As soon as their website is fully running I'm sure you will be able to get an up-to-the-minute list and maybe even place orders. Until then email Museum@helanta.sh or, better still, hop on the ship and visit in person .... (go on - you know you want to). Regards, John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. Books A Natural History: St Helena and Ascension Island Drake and St Helena National Geographical Magazine One Man's Island Poetic Profile Q5: 500 Years of History SNCG Bird Books St Helena 500 St Helena Euchre St Helena Illustrated St Helena in Focus St Helena Proclamations St Helena, South Atlantic Ocean The Bradt Travel Guide Tristan Da Cunha Wirebird Journal Plaster Casts Bishop's Seal Bust of Napoleon Cap Badge St Helena Rifles Regiment Governor's Seal Local Militia Hat Badge Lord Nelson Napoleon Napoleon/Marie Louise Oval East India Company St Helena Island View/French Medal St Helena Volunteers Belt Plate Brass Coated Plaster Casts Arms of British East India Company 1750 Belt Plate St Helena Volunteers Clothing Hooded Sweatshirts: Dolphin / Hooded Sweatshirt: St Helena Island SAO T-Shirts: Arum Lily / Dolphin / Green Planet / Hooked on St Helena / I Love St Helena / I'm Crazy / Jacob's Ladder / Jonathan the Tortoise / Ladies Shirt / Main Street Jamestown / Map of St Helena (on Front) / Multi-Coloured Hump Back Whale / Multi-Coloured Tortoise / Museum Of St Helena / My Grandma / Someone Special / St Helena Island SAO / Wharf Jamestown / Wirebird Golf Shirts: Heritage Logo / Saint Helena, SAO. Notelets Arms EIC until 1836 Porteus House Royal Arms 1836 Post Cards 48 different images Accessories Amber stones on silver bracelets Bracelet Caps Earrings Ebony Necklaces Necklaces on chain Seed Necklace Shopping Bags Wooden Beaded Bracelets Household Aprons: Arum Lily / Multi-Coloured Tortoise / Wirebird Ashtrays: Colony Badge / Jonathan / Wirebird Beer Tankards - China Beer Tankards - Glass Chelsea Mugs Cocoa/Coffee Mugs Cushion Covers Eggs on Legs (Egg Cups) Framed Poems Prestige Coasters (Sets of 6) Spoon Rest Table Cloths Tray Cloths: Arum Lilly / Wirebird Wirebird Coasters (Sets of 2) Stationery Pencil Cases Pencils Plastic Rulers Maps Bellins' A French Cartographer Oglbys Africa View of the Island Miscellaneous Items Ascension Island DVD Ascension Island Video tape Bead Tortoise Key ring Beanie Tortoise Blank Frame Fridge Magnets Cards: A Days Fishing on St Helena / Embroidery Ceramic Tortoise Cloth Sand Tortoise Decoupage Digital Picture CD Postcard Envelopes Fridge Magnets: Island Scenes / A Days Fishing on St Helena / Embroidery Greetings Cards Key rings : A Days Fishing on St Helena / Embroidery Knitted Teddies Lace Bookmarkers Lanyard Key rings Leather Bookmarks Leather Key rings Message in a Box (MSG's) Napoleon Prints Pictures: A Days Fishing on St Helena / Embroidery Postal Tubes Presentation Boxes St Helena Island Tape Stone Carved Tortoise ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070509/6d7cf814/attachment-0001.htm From john at burghhouse.com Wed May 9 16:18:47 2007 From: john at burghhouse.com (John Turner) Date: Wed May 9 16:22:33 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Museum stock list In-Reply-To: <002701c79244$3686e4f0$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> References: <001601c79239$e3dcad70$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <002701c79244$3686e4f0$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> Message-ID: <005e01c79244$f868d600$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Hi, Juliet, Anyone can use the pool if they can afford the 40 pence it costs to get in, though at present the pool is closed because there hasn't been enough Chlorine on the island to purify the water. But be aware that the pool often closes for the winter (I don't know whether that will happen this year) because most people here consider an ambient temperature below 20c to be too cold to go swimming. If you're coming here in August you won't need to rely on the pool - there will be puddles everywhere much bigger than the 'swimming pool' on the RMS. The local term is 'messy August' because of the mud ..... Regards, John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of JULIET COTTAM Sent: 9 May 2007 14:13 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Museum stock list Thanks for that Museum list, John - very comprehensive for a place with small tourist numbers per annum. It probably was my enquiry as to the availability of the black and white prints in the museum shop, that triggered the publication of that list. On my last visit I did not have a too much time, to forage around the Museum, but what I did see really impressed me - well worth much longer when I visit in August - RMS willing and able !!! Another query to which I should know the answer - are the visitors from the RMS.allowed to use that Olympic sized swimming pool of yours- the lack of lenght in the puddle on the RMS.is a little frustrating for a soul who likes her daily dog paddle ! I would endorse your plea - hop on the ship - I've done it once, and am booked to do it again, with a longer stay, during the Ascension-shuttle. Roll on August! Juliet. ----- Original Message ----- From: Manager, Bank of St. Helena To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Cc: museum@helanta.sh Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:59 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Museum stock list Someone (sorry, can't remember who) asked about what is on sale at the Museum in Jamestown. Here is a fairly comprehensive list. (I can email this list in PDF if anyone wants.) As soon as their website is fully running I'm sure you will be able to get an up-to-the-minute list and maybe even place orders. Until then email Museum@helanta.sh or, better still, hop on the ship and visit in person .... (go on - you know you want to). Regards, John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. Books A Natural History: St Helena and Ascension Island Drake and St Helena National Geographical Magazine One Man's Island Poetic Profile Q5: 500 Years of History SNCG Bird Books St Helena 500 St Helena Euchre St Helena Illustrated St Helena in Focus St Helena Proclamations St Helena, South Atlantic Ocean The Bradt Travel Guide Tristan Da Cunha Wirebird Journal Plaster Casts Bishop's Seal Bust of Napoleon Cap Badge St Helena Rifles Regiment Governor's Seal Local Militia Hat Badge Lord Nelson Napoleon Napoleon/Marie Louise Oval East India Company St Helena Island View/French Medal St Helena Volunteers Belt Plate Brass Coated Plaster Casts Arms of British East India Company 1750 Belt Plate St Helena Volunteers Clothing Hooded Sweatshirts: Dolphin / Hooded Sweatshirt: St Helena Island SAO T-Shirts: Arum Lily / Dolphin / Green Planet / Hooked on St Helena / I Love St Helena / I'm Crazy / Jacob's Ladder / Jonathan the Tortoise / Ladies Shirt / Main Street Jamestown / Map of St Helena (on Front) / Multi-Coloured Hump Back Whale / Multi-Coloured Tortoise / Museum Of St Helena / My Grandma / Someone Special / St Helena Island SAO / Wharf Jamestown / Wirebird Golf Shirts: Heritage Logo / Saint Helena, SAO. Notelets Arms EIC until 1836 Porteus House Royal Arms 1836 Post Cards 48 different images Accessories Amber stones on silver bracelets Bracelet Caps Earrings Ebony Necklaces Necklaces on chain Seed Necklace Shopping Bags Wooden Beaded Bracelets Household Aprons: Arum Lily / Multi-Coloured Tortoise / Wirebird Ashtrays: Colony Badge / Jonathan / Wirebird Beer Tankards - China Beer Tankards - Glass Chelsea Mugs Cocoa/Coffee Mugs Cushion Covers Eggs on Legs (Egg Cups) Framed Poems Prestige Coasters (Sets of 6) Spoon Rest Table Cloths Tray Cloths: Arum Lilly / Wirebird Wirebird Coasters (Sets of 2) Stationery Pencil Cases Pencils Plastic Rulers Maps Bellins' A French Cartographer Oglbys Africa View of the Island Miscellaneous Items Ascension Island DVD Ascension Island Video tape Bead Tortoise Key ring Beanie Tortoise Blank Frame Fridge Magnets Cards: A Days Fishing on St Helena / Embroidery Ceramic Tortoise Cloth Sand Tortoise Decoupage Digital Picture CD Postcard Envelopes Fridge Magnets: Island Scenes / A Days Fishing on St Helena / Embroidery Greetings Cards Key rings : A Days Fishing on St Helena / Embroidery Knitted Teddies Lace Bookmarkers Lanyard Key rings Leather Bookmarks Leather Key rings Message in a Box (MSG's) Napoleon Prints Pictures: A Days Fishing on St Helena / Embroidery Postal Tubes Presentation Boxes St Helena Island Tape Stone Carved Tortoise _____ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2251 (20070509) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070509/5d143e25/attachment.htm From neon_dream at hotmail.com Wed May 9 21:55:42 2007 From: neon_dream at hotmail.com (Neon Dream) Date: Wed May 9 21:56:16 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re: Ascension Message-ID: Rich Want know why so many young Saints are leaving? Listen in to the Saint FM local news bulletins each day (available on audio streaming) plus the late night show on Saturday and you might just get the picture. Depressing or what! At least JT adds a bit of unbiased reality (plus humour even) during his slots on Saint FM. Keep up the good work John! Nick Evans _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From cplowe at mchsi.com Wed May 9 22:09:05 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (cplowe@mchsi.com) Date: Wed May 9 22:09:33 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re: Ascension Message-ID: <050920072009.2335.46422A61000212180000091F219791336303010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com> I have not been able to get the stream so tell me, what is so depressing. Pam > Rich > > Want know why so many young Saints are leaving? Listen in to the Saint FM > local news bulletins each day (available on audio streaming) plus the late > night show on Saturday and you might just get the picture. Depressing or > what! > > At least JT adds a bit of unbiased reality (plus humour even) during his > slots on Saint FM. Keep up the good work John! > > Nick Evans > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From nanystrom at yahoo.com Wed May 9 22:48:04 2007 From: nanystrom at yahoo.com (Nissa Nystrom) Date: Wed May 9 22:48:31 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Looking for feedback Message-ID: <797736.58763.qm@web54510.mail.yahoo.com> Hi John T. and Neon Dream, Iris Linsi brought to my attention an island named Diego Garcia after the Portuguese navigator who exxplored it at some point during the 1500's. It is located in the middle of the Indian Ocean. I researched a few sites and to get a grasp of what her concerns were about this island in relation to the island of St. Helena. Here is the address of one of the sites I located with a summary of what has occured since the island was discovered. http://www.infoplease.com/spot/dg.html What chances do you see of anything like what happened to Diego Garcia happening to St. Helena? I attempted to get feedback on this subject yesterday but I may not have included enough info. I would appreciate your feedback. =-D Sincerely, Nissa Fargo, ND USA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From thomas at flyingkettle.com Thu May 10 13:07:59 2007 From: thomas at flyingkettle.com (Thomas Goodey) Date: Thu May 10 13:17:30 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] The Warning of Diego Garcia In-Reply-To: <749335.48883.qm@web54509.mail.yahoo.com> References: <000501c791b5$93ebf110$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq>, <749335.48883.qm@web54509.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46430B1F.16556.C2A0E3@thomas.flyingkettle.com> On 8 May 2007 at 14:29, Nissa Nystrom wrote: > I finally had time to research the island of Diego > Garcia... It is a frightening prospect to think that the > same scenario could very well happen to the island of > St. Helena and its people. Not St. Helena, not yet. It's happening to Ascension. Which is more strategically located. Without a good airport, I don't think SH would be much use as a military base. Mind you, the airport is coming... Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** From simon.pipe at bbc.co.uk Thu May 10 14:55:27 2007 From: simon.pipe at bbc.co.uk (Simon Pipe) Date: Thu May 10 14:55:53 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] John turner accused of St Helena manslaughter In-Reply-To: <002e01c7917b$b9884930$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45><3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <002e01c7917b$b9884930$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq> Message-ID: <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77E6@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> >From the St Helena records, 6th Nov, 1679 Thomas Green killed in April last while fishing on the Windward Rocks by the falling of a stone judged to be accidental which broke his leg all in pieces and caused his death in a few hours. But of late there having bin some further discovery as if it were not altogether accidental,-Ordered that a Coroner and Jury examine the matter. After the Coroner and Jury had spent the whole day in examination of witnesses and in taking up the body of the said Green viewing it and causing several persons to touch the same they brought in a verdict of manslaughter against Richard Alexander, John Waller and John Turner. http://www.bweaver.nom.sh/janisch/janisch_1673-85.html I was looking for something else... Simon Pipe -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Iris Linsi Sent: 08 May 2007 15:18 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil You dont know that this has ever actually happened ? then please google .... 'Ascension - another Diego Garcia ? and think of the implications for St. Helena !! If people are really interested in the welfare of St. Helena - perhaps they should follow the articles on the net, e.g. 'Greenpeace comments' 'Debates in the House of Comments' etc. linsi of st. helena isle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Pipe" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 3:13 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil > I think John's response on right-of-abode misses an important point: that there are people who are born on Ascension, who grow up there and who may spend their entire working lives there, but at the end of their working lives will have no right to remain in their homeland. To have to emigrate at such a point, to another island that has never been home, must seem very hard, and I think it does raise an important issue of human rights. I should say I don't know that this has ever actually happened. > > > Simon Pipe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John Turner > Sent: 08 May 2007 14:00 > To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' > Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil > > I would not normally expect to find myself defending the British government, but in this case I must (though in a qualified way). > > The people of Chagos (Diego Garcia) had, I believe, lived there for a long time, and were evicted from their own island. Nobody ever had the right to live on Ascension Island, so the two cases are not really the same. > > As I understand it, the issue is that the islanders believed the British government was going to give them the right of abode, and then withdrew that. I'm not going to get into the debate about whether the islanders' > belief was justified or not, but that was their belief, so when they were told recently that this was not going to happen they were, understandably, upset. They feel they were led on, and produce evidence for that belief. I have not seen any credible counter evidence produced by the FCO. > > Personally I doubt that the British government will move the Saints off Ascension Island, at least not in the foreseeable future. What they are paid for working there is peanuts compared with what British people would demand to go there, and the jobs need to be done. Why would a government chuck out a mass of cheap and largely uncomplaining labour? But I agree that is far less reassuring than a right of abode. > > My personal belief is that the decision to refuse right of abode is economic not military. If there was a right of abode, and Ascension Island's economy was to collapse, the British government would have to subsidise the island, as it does St. Helena. So I believe it is merely managing its contingent liabilities. The military conspiracy theory is more attractive, I'm sure, but less credible. > > Incidentally, Saints go to Ascension (and the Falklands) for those wages because it is better than they can get here, which, in turn, shows just how bad incomes are in St. Helena compared to the UK. > > Regards, > John Turner > > Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena > > (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) > > Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) > > NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Thomas Goodey > Sent: 8 May 2007 11:40 > To: list@sthelena.se > Subject: [STHELENA] Ascension Island political turmoil > > On 8 May 2007 at 13:23, Reino Bauer wrote: > > > See the article of the Glasgow Sunday Herald under > > http://www.saint.fm/Independent/20070427.pdf > > Ah, interesting. It appears that the Ascension Council resigned in protest against the British Government's refusal to allow the people actually living on the island to have a formal right to continue to do so. It is suspected that, inspired by the Americans, the Government's long-term plan is to "do a Chagos (Diego Garcia)" on the inhabitants of Ascension - i.e., kick them out. > > I think these worries may be very justified. > > Thomas Goodey > > ********************************* > The introduction of a multiplicity > of objectives into a problem not > only destroys its unity, but also > increases markedly both the > time necessary for, and the > actual personal danger involved > in, its solution. > ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII > ************************************** > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > __________ NOD32 2248 (20070507) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/ > This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. > If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. > Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. > Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. > Further communication will signify your consent to this. > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. From john at burghhouse.com Thu May 10 15:45:25 2007 From: john at burghhouse.com (John Turner) Date: Thu May 10 15:49:00 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] John turner accused of St Helena manslaughter In-Reply-To: <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77E6@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45><3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk><002e01c7917b$b9884930$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq> <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77E6@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <001101c79309$79f02b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Well that's given Mike Olsson his headline for The Independent tomorrow! Unlikely to be a relative (as I will explain) but you never know ... For the benefit of those who have not studied surnames, Turner is one of those names that derives from a profession (e.g. Carpenter, Smith). So an ancestor of mine, who would have been a wood-turner, would have become known as Fred the Turner, and eventually Fred Turner. As there would have been a large number of unrelated wood-turners in those days there will be a large number of people now called Turner who are unrelated. I'd like to be a descendent of JMW Turner (oddly, he is one of my favourite artists) but sadly I can't establish a link. Anyway, back to the story - by the sounds of the case it would never have stood up in any modern court. If it turns out I am related I'll campaign for a retrial! JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Simon Pipe Sent: 10 May 2007 12:55 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: [STHELENA] John turner accused of St Helena manslaughter >From the St Helena records, 6th Nov, 1679 Thomas Green killed in April last while fishing on the Windward Rocks by the falling of a stone judged to be accidental which broke his leg all in pieces and caused his death in a few hours. But of late there having bin some further discovery as if it were not altogether accidental,-Ordered that a Coroner and Jury examine the matter. After the Coroner and Jury had spent the whole day in examination of witnesses and in taking up the body of the said Green viewing it and causing several persons to touch the same they brought in a verdict of manslaughter against Richard Alexander, John Waller and John Turner. http://www.bweaver.nom.sh/janisch/janisch_1673-85.html I was looking for something else... Simon Pipe From rbauer6115 at t-online.de Thu May 10 16:36:43 2007 From: rbauer6115 at t-online.de (Reino Bauer) Date: Thu May 10 16:37:16 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] John turner accused of St Helena manslaughter In-Reply-To: <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77E6@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> References: <000001c78e61$acc3e640$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <46405F51.6576.ABC2E2@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <46405DC1.3000709@bigfoot.com><46406FA7.494.EB93EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><000001c79170$d6fd7d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45><3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77C3@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <002e01c7917b$b9884930$2101a8c0@pcm5grzvna6ipq> <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A77E6@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <46432DFB.7040900@bigfoot.com> Thank you Simon for drawing my attention to this formidable source of information. I had not seen it before. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070510/8def2cbc/attachment.htm From IrvingDylan at aol.com Fri May 11 12:12:02 2007 From: IrvingDylan at aol.com (IrvingDylan@aol.com) Date: Fri May 11 12:12:43 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] John Turner Accused of Manslaughter Message-ID: 'Dear John ...' ... and, over the years, most of us have known to dread the discovery of a literary-end to one romance or another in their mailbox - but the St Helena List would forgive you anything rather than lose to the gallows your informed, inimitable and interesting banker's contributions to the Continuing Story of the Saints. What attracted a bloke in a pinstripe to escape to the South Atlantic Isle of St Helena? If I were to c?nfess that, atop of a broken marrriage, and old London lag demanding money with menaces hastened my departure to God's Country; experiencing 40-below life with its Metis people, half North American Indian, half French-Canadian and that nation's poorest of the poor; learning there is more than one way to kill a chicken; and affording a silver Corvette out of the switch to metric-working ... ... what, John Turner, is your excuse for high-tailing it out of the land of your birfh? Canuki Dollars for pounds: You are brought to book! You want to know more? . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070511/19755682/attachment.htm From john at burghhouse.com Fri May 11 14:12:35 2007 From: john at burghhouse.com (John Turner) Date: Fri May 11 14:16:37 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] RE: John Turner Accused of Manslaughter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003901c793c5$ac510620$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Thanks for the compliment. Can you tell that I'm blushing? So why the change? Well getting out of the pinstripe (and, particularly, the tie) was a factor, certainly. To answer the question without writing my entire life history: I spent the first 25 years of my career either in London or some other world city and by my mid-forties I was fed up with it. The analogy of the hamster on a wheel is entirely apt. I was working excessive hours to provide for a family I had little chance to see. I tried different models of working in the UK but soon realised that radical change was the only answer. When the job here came up it ticked all the boxes. I earn about a fifth of what I used to in the UK; drive a car that in the UK would have been scrapped ages ago (indeed, perhaps was, and then sent here); and don't eat in Michelin-guide restaurants but I no longer have a six-figure mortgage hanging over my head (indeed, I have no mortgage at all - we bought our house for cash); I get to eat breakfast with the family; I drive for 25 minutes in beautiful scenery to get to work; I sit in an office with a wooden desk and a view of the sea, and work with people I really like; I get home not long after the children; don't have to fly off around the world on business trips that achieve little more than ruining the ozone layer and giving me jetlag; and have a job where what I do actually makes a difference to real people's lives. I would have been insane to turn down the opportunity, and if anything I ever post gives anyone the impression I am not 100% happy to be here then please can they re-read the above to reassure themselves. John Turner Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. _____ From: IrvingDylan@aol.com [mailto:IrvingDylan@aol.com] Sent: 11 May 2007 10:12 To: john@burghhouse.com Cc: list@sthelena.se Subject: John Turner Accused of Manslaughter 'Dear John ...' ... and, over the years, most of us have known to dread the discovery of a literary-end to one romance or another in their mailbox - but the St Helena List would forgive you anything rather than lose to the gallows your informed, inimitable and interesting banker's contributions to the Continuing Story of the Saints. What attracted a bloke in a pinstripe to escape to the South Atlantic Isle of St Helena? If I were to c?nfess that, atop of a broken marrriage, and old London lag demanding money with menaces hastened my departure to God's Country; experiencing 40-below life with its Metis people, half North American Indian, half French-Canadian and that nation's poorest of the poor; learning there is more than one way to kill a chicken; and affording a silver Corvette out of the switch to metric-working ... ... what, John Turner, is your excuse for high-tailing it out of the land of your birfh? Canuki Dollars for pounds: You are brought to book! You want to know more? . __________ NOD32 2257 (20070511) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070511/708b6c9a/attachment.htm From reinobauer at t-online.de Sun May 13 17:33:04 2007 From: reinobauer at t-online.de (reinobauer) Date: Sun May 13 17:33:37 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip Message-ID: <46472FB0.3090309@t-online.de> In case you are interested and have not seen it yet, there is a film clip about St. Helena on www.youtube.com. The link is http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQRXxiFvs Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070513/bde2ab49/attachment.htm From ronreena95776 at yahoo.com Sun May 13 20:28:04 2007 From: ronreena95776 at yahoo.com (ron melancon) Date: Sun May 13 20:28:38 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip In-Reply-To: <46472FB0.3090309@t-online.de> Message-ID: <376933.51110.qm@web82112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thank you Reino for sharing Ron Melancon --- reinobauer wrote: > In case you are interested and have not seen it yet, > there is a film > clip about St. Helena on www.youtube.com. The link > is > http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQRXxiFvs > > Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From dave at gw0ogi.freeserve.co.uk Sun May 13 21:19:13 2007 From: dave at gw0ogi.freeserve.co.uk (Dave Keely) Date: Sun May 13 21:19:41 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip In-Reply-To: <376933.51110.qm@web82112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <376933.51110.qm@web82112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <464764B1.4010403@gw0ogi.freeserve.co.uk> likewise,thank you Reino Dave Keely ron melancon wrote: > Thank you Reino for sharing > > Ron Melancon > --- reinobauer wrote: > > >> In case you are interested and have not seen it yet, >> there is a film >> clip about St. Helena on www.youtube.com. The link >> is >> http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQRXxiFvs >> >> Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) >> >>> The S:t Helena Mailing List >>> >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > From hokke27 at hotmail.com Sun May 13 22:59:58 2007 From: hokke27 at hotmail.com (Hokke Larsen) Date: Sun May 13 23:51:54 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Seeking friends In-Reply-To: <200705121000.l4CA05t5023632@rex.kulturservern.se> Message-ID: I hope some one out here can help me. I'm looking for the phone number for Stuart and Brenda Moors, should now live at Alarm Hill. I met them on my visit to the island, but now I have, unfortunately, lost both their phone number and mail address. Can anyone help me? Hokke from Sweden _________________________________________________________________ Uppt?ck k?rleken p? MSN http://match.se.msn.com/channel/index.aspx?trackingid=1002962 From cplowe at mchsi.com Mon May 14 00:25:08 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD) Date: Mon May 14 00:24:58 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip References: <46472FB0.3090309@t-online.de> Message-ID: <002d01c795ad$9053cb80$6501a8c0@Pam> Thanks Reino, I enjoyed it Pam ----- Original Message ----- From: reinobauer To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip In case you are interested and have not seen it yet, there is a film clip about St. Helena on www.youtube.com. The link is http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQRXxiFvs Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) has notified the sender that this message has been received. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070513/0aece91b/attachment.htm From jvigor at earthlink.net Mon May 14 02:49:51 2007 From: jvigor at earthlink.net (John and June Vigor) Date: Mon May 14 02:49:37 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Seeking friends References: Message-ID: <000b01c795c1$c96ae0c0$c709f204@fmk4n> Hokke, they're not in the 2005 telephone directory that I have, but you can find their number by calling St. Helena Directory Enquiries on 2222. The country code for St. Helena, as you probably know, is 290. Good luck, John Vigor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hokke Larsen" To: Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 1:59 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Seeking friends > > I hope some one out here can help me. I'm looking for the phone number > for Stuart and Brenda Moors, should now live at Alarm Hill. I met them on my > visit to the island, but now I have, unfortunately, lost both their phone > number and mail address. Can anyone help me? > > > Hokke from Sweden > > _________________________________________________________________ > Uppt?ck k?rleken p? MSN > http://match.se.msn.com/channel/index.aspx?trackingid=1002962 > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > From joocee at btopenworld.com Mon May 14 10:45:34 2007 From: joocee at btopenworld.com (JULIET COTTAM) Date: Mon May 14 10:46:07 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip References: <46472FB0.3090309@t-online.de> Message-ID: <001d01c79604$46334830$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> Thanks Reino - that was lovely - I just sat with a smile on my face and that certainly won't go into my 'delete' box - it will be played over and over again - I like the music too! Roll on August when I can see it all in situ once more! Juliet. ----- Original Message ----- From: reinobauer To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 4:33 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip In case you are interested and have not seen it yet, there is a film clip about St. Helena on www.youtube.com. The link is http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQRXxiFvs Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) has notified the sender that this message has been received. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070514/d29773d4/attachment.htm From john at burghhouse.com Mon May 14 11:16:34 2007 From: john at burghhouse.com (John Turner) Date: Mon May 14 11:20:45 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip In-Reply-To: <46472FB0.3090309@t-online.de> References: <46472FB0.3090309@t-online.de> Message-ID: <009b01c79608$970c02c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Nice film, professionally shot, though it seems to be incomplete. It looks as though it is recent (I would guess it was shot in 2006). A couple of notes that are of little consequence but may be of interest: * Unless I'm very much mistaken the Policeman in shot (at c00:57) is Jeromy Cairns-Wicks, who is the son of Julian. His brother, Greg, runs the Queen Mary / Victoria stores and is married to Rebecca who is the island's leading environmentalist. * The Fire station (shown at 02:19) is no longer in Market Street, as shown. The lease ran out. It's now at the top of Ladder Hill. John Turner Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena (Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of reinobauer Sent: 13 May 2007 15:33 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip In case you are interested and have not seen it yet, there is a film clip about St. Helena on www.youtube.com. The link is http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQRXxiFvs Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) has notified the sender that this message has been received. __________ NOD32 2262 (20070512) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070514/a9b99216/attachment.htm From takkies at mighty.co.za Mon May 14 18:43:13 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Mon May 14 18:44:13 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip References: <46472FB0.3090309@t-online.de> Message-ID: <003901c79646$fc21f730$0200a8c0@dad> Nice clip... short and sweet! Thanks very much for that Reino :-) Regards, Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: reinobauer To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip In case you are interested and have not seen it yet, there is a film clip about St. Helena on www.youtube.com. The link is http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQRXxiFvs Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) has notified the sender that this message has been received. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/801 - Release Date: 2007/05/12 06:40 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070514/34a3cef1/attachment.htm From neon_dream at hotmail.com Mon May 14 22:21:44 2007 From: neon_dream at hotmail.com (Neon Dream) Date: Mon May 14 22:22:19 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] RE: List Digest, Vol 35, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <200705141000.l4EA05AH021982@rex.kulturservern.se> Message-ID: Hokke Don't wish to publish phone numbers on an open list, but if you Google "The Property Shop" in St Helena or simply go to http://www.tps.co.sh/ you will find Stuart's phone number and email address listed there. Nick >From: list-request@sthelena.se >Reply-To: list@sthelena.se >To: list@sthelena.se >Subject: List Digest, Vol 35, Issue 13 >Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 12:00:15 +0200 > >Send List mailing list submissions to > list@sthelena.se > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.kulturservern.se/mailman/listinfo/list >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > list-request@sthelena.se > >You can reach the person managing the list at > list-owner@sthelena.se > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of List digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Film clip (reinobauer) > 2. Re: Film clip (ron melancon) > 3. Re: Film clip (Dave Keely) > 4. Seeking friends (Hokke Larsen) > 5. Re: Film clip (C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD) > 6. Re: Seeking friends (John and June Vigor) > 7. Re: Film clip (JULIET COTTAM) > 8. RE: Film clip (John Turner) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 17:33:04 +0200 >From: reinobauer >Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip >To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" > >Message-ID: <46472FB0.3090309@t-online.de> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >In case you are interested and have not seen it yet, there is a film >clip about St. Helena on www.youtube.com. The link is >http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQRXxiFvs > >Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: >http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070513/bde2ab49/attachment-0001.htm > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:28:04 -0700 (PDT) >From: ron melancon >Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Film clip >To: rbauer@bigfoot.com, "All about St. Helena - The Island in the > South Atlantic\(Eng\)" >Message-ID: <376933.51110.qm@web82112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >Thank you Reino for sharing > >Ron Melancon >--- reinobauer wrote: > > > In case you are interested and have not seen it yet, > > there is a film > > clip about St. Helena on www.youtube.com. The link > > is > > http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQRXxiFvs > > > > Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 20:19:13 +0100 >From: Dave Keely >Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Film clip >To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" > >Message-ID: <464764B1.4010403@gw0ogi.freeserve.co.uk> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >likewise,thank you Reino >Dave Keely > >ron melancon wrote: > > Thank you Reino for sharing > > > > Ron Melancon > > --- reinobauer wrote: > > > > > >> In case you are interested and have not seen it yet, > >> there is a film > >> clip about St. Helena on www.youtube.com. The link > >> is > >> http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQRXxiFvs > >> > >> Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) > >> > >>> The S:t Helena Mailing List > >>> > >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: > >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > >> > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 20:59:58 +0000 >From: "Hokke Larsen" >Subject: [STHELENA] Seeking friends >To: list@sthelena.se >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > > I hope some one out here can help me. I'm looking for the phone number >for Stuart and Brenda Moors, should now live at Alarm Hill. I met them on >my >visit to the island, but now I have, unfortunately, lost both their phone >number and mail address. Can anyone help me? > > > Hokke from Sweden > >_________________________________________________________________ >Upptäck kärleken på MSN >http://match.se.msn.com/channel/index.aspx?trackingid=1002962 > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 18:25:08 -0400 >From: "C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD" >Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Film clip >To: , "All about St. Helena - The Island in the > South Atlantic\(Eng\)" >Message-ID: <002d01c795ad$9053cb80$6501a8c0@Pam> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >Thanks Reino, >I enjoyed it >Pam > ----- Original Message ----- > From: reinobauer > To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 11:33 AM > Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip > > > In case you are interested and have not seen it yet, there is a film > clip about St. Helena on www.youtube.com. The link is > http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQRXxiFvs > > Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) > > > has notified the sender that this message has been received. > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: >http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070513/0aece91b/attachment-0001.htm > >------------------------------ > >Message: 6 >Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 17:49:51 -0700 >From: "John and June Vigor" >Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Seeking friends >To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic\(Eng\)" > >Message-ID: <000b01c795c1$c96ae0c0$c709f204@fmk4n> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > >Hokke, they're not in the 2005 telephone directory that I have, but you can >find their number by calling St. Helena Directory Enquiries on 2222. > >The country code for St. Helena, as you probably know, is 290. > >Good luck, > >John Vigor > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Hokke Larsen" >To: >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 1:59 PM >Subject: [STHELENA] Seeking friends > > > > > > I hope some one out here can help me. I'm looking for the phone >number > > for Stuart and Brenda Moors, should now live at Alarm Hill. I met them >on >my > > visit to the island, but now I have, unfortunately, lost both their >phone > > number and mail address. Can anyone help me? > > > > > > Hokke from Sweden > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Upptäck kärleken på MSN > > http://match.se.msn.com/channel/index.aspx?trackingid=1002962 > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 7 >Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 09:45:34 +0100 >From: "JULIET COTTAM" >Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Film clip >To: , "All about St. Helena - The Island in the > South Atlantic\(Eng\)" >Message-ID: <001d01c79604$46334830$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >Thanks Reino - that was lovely - I just sat with a smile on my face and >that certainly won't go into my 'delete' box - it will be played over and >over again - I like the music too! Roll on August when I can see it all in >situ once more! Juliet. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: reinobauer > To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 4:33 PM > Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip > > > In case you are interested and have not seen it yet, there is a film > clip about St. Helena on www.youtube.com. The link is > http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQRXxiFvs > > Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) > > > has notified the sender that this message has been received. > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: >http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070514/d29773d4/attachment-0001.htm > >------------------------------ > >Message: 8 >Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 09:16:34 -0000 >From: "John Turner" >Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Film clip >To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic\(Eng\)'" > >Message-ID: <009b01c79608$970c02c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Nice film, professionally shot, though it seems to be incomplete. It looks >as though it is recent (I would guess it was shot in 2006). > >A couple of notes that are of little consequence but may be of interest: > >* > > Unless I'm very much mistaken the Policeman in shot (at c00:57) is >Jeromy Cairns-Wicks, who is the son of Julian. His brother, Greg, runs the >Queen Mary / Victoria stores and is married to Rebecca who is the island's >leading environmentalist. > >* > > The Fire station (shown at 02:19) is no longer in Market Street, as >shown. The lease ran out. It's now at the top of Ladder Hill. > >John Turner >Burgh House, Barren Ground, Blue Hill, St. Helena >(Please send post to: PO Box 37, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena, South >Atlantic, STHL 1ZZ) >Tel: +290 3235 (office +290 2044) > >NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: This communication and any attachments are >confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, >and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else >is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the >intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying >of >this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance >on >it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this >communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly >delete the communication. Thank you. > > _____ > >From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf >Of reinobauer >Sent: 13 May 2007 15:33 >To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) >Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip > > >In case you are interested and have not seen it yet, there is a film >clip about St. Helena on www.youtube.com. The link is >http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQRXxiFvs > >Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) > > > > > has notified the sender that this >message has been received. > > > >__________ NOD32 2262 (20070512) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: >http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070514/a9b99216/attachment-0001.htm > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >List mailing list >List@sthelena.se >http://lists.kulturservern.se/mailman/listinfo/list > > >End of List Digest, Vol 35, Issue 13 >************************************ _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From deird at optusnet.com.au Tue May 15 03:18:01 2007 From: deird at optusnet.com.au (Eugene & Deirdre) Date: Tue May 15 03:18:24 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Message-ID: <46490A49.00002D.01408@DEIRD> During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island. Would it be possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. Do hope this is not too much trouble. Deirdre Blunt From Australia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/f9978ff9/attachment.htm From alastair.ts at gmail.com Tue May 15 10:19:47 2007 From: alastair.ts at gmail.com (Alastair Teeling-Smith) Date: Tue May 15 10:20:18 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Oregan Hoskins Message-ID: <2250304b0705150119t598709f0w82310f8298227f09@mail.gmail.com> Hi The President of the South African Rugby Union, Oregan Hoskins, is in the news in South Africa because of a controversial interview. I have heard he, or his parents, are from St Helena. Can anyone confirm this? Alastair -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/4ac8a89f/attachment.htm From alastair.ts at gmail.com Tue May 15 12:24:25 2007 From: alastair.ts at gmail.com (Alastair Teeling-Smith) Date: Tue May 15 12:24:48 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins In-Reply-To: <2250304b0705150119t598709f0w82310f8298227f09@mail.gmail.com> References: <2250304b0705150119t598709f0w82310f8298227f09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2250304b0705150324r662fc2c3xdd00be87831553ef@mail.gmail.com> Hi The President of the South African Rugby Union, Oregan Hoskins, is in the news in South Africa because of a controversial interview. I have heard he, or his parents, are from St Helena. Can anyone confirm this? Alastair -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/793da91a/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Tue May 15 14:38:23 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Tue May 15 14:39:01 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins In-Reply-To: <2250304b0705150324r662fc2c3xdd00be87831553ef@mail.gmail.com> References: <2250304b0705150119t598709f0w82310f8298227f09@mail.gmail.com> <2250304b0705150324r662fc2c3xdd00be87831553ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C965050F6F298A-468-563@WEBMAIL-RA19.sysops.aol.com> No, I can't. -----Original Message----- From: alastair.ts@gmail.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 4:24 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins Hi The President of the South African Rugby Union, Oregan Hoskins, is in the news in South Africa because of a controversial interview. I have heard he, or his parents, are from St Helena. Can anyone confirm this? Alastair The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/d7cef302/attachment.htm From sea_dragons at earthlink.net Tue May 15 14:52:49 2007 From: sea_dragons at earthlink.net (Christopher D. Lewis) Date: Tue May 15 14:53:20 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins In-Reply-To: <8C965050F6F298A-468-563@WEBMAIL-RA19.sysops.aol.com> References: <2250304b0705150119t598709f0w82310f8298227f09@mail.gmail.com> <2250304b0705150324r662fc2c3xdd00be87831553ef@mail.gmail.com> <8C965050F6F298A-468-563@WEBMAIL-RA19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8AF98DD3-CB91-4A57-BB27-901B7EF71EE2@earthlink.net> > > Hi > > The President of the South African Rugby Union, Oregan Hoskins, is > in the news in South Africa because of a controversial interview. > > I have heard he, or his parents, are from St Helena. Can anyone > confirm this? > > Alastair Is it important that the person 'confirming' this have any actual knowledge of the facts, or even admit a real name on the mailing list? How would you tell? Just wondering how you'd check your source. Take care, Chris From takkies at mighty.co.za Tue May 15 14:54:47 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Tue May 15 14:55:39 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Oregan Hoskins References: <2250304b0705150119t598709f0w82310f8298227f09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005201c796f0$38648e20$0200a8c0@dad> Hello Alastair, The only online reference I've found so far was made way back by the Mail and Gaurdian on 21 Dec 2006 at; http://www.earthyear.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=294144&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__sport/ Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: Alastair Teeling-Smith To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Oregan Hoskins Hi The President of the South African Rugby Union, Oregan Hoskins, is in the news in South Africa because of a controversial interview. I have heard he, or his parents, are from St Helena. Can anyone confirm this? Alastair ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date: 2007/05/14 04:46 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/826a5043/attachment.htm From alastair.ts at gmail.com Tue May 15 15:48:32 2007 From: alastair.ts at gmail.com (Alastair Teeling-Smith) Date: Tue May 15 15:48:57 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins In-Reply-To: <8AF98DD3-CB91-4A57-BB27-901B7EF71EE2@earthlink.net> References: <2250304b0705150119t598709f0w82310f8298227f09@mail.gmail.com> <2250304b0705150324r662fc2c3xdd00be87831553ef@mail.gmail.com> <8C965050F6F298A-468-563@WEBMAIL-RA19.sysops.aol.com> <8AF98DD3-CB91-4A57-BB27-901B7EF71EE2@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2250304b0705150648i4333b702id3e66df7d5e2db20@mail.gmail.com> Hi Chris I'm just mildly curious ... that's all Alastair On 5/15/07, Christopher D. Lewis wrote: > > > > > Hi > > > > The President of the South African Rugby Union, Oregan Hoskins, is > > in the news in South Africa because of a controversial interview. > > > > I have heard he, or his parents, are from St Helena. Can anyone > > confirm this? > > > > Alastair > > Is it important that the person 'confirming' this have any actual > knowledge of the facts, or even admit a real name on the mailing > list? How would you tell? > > Just wondering how you'd check your source. > > Take care, > Chris > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/44eba13e/attachment.htm From alastair.ts at gmail.com Tue May 15 15:50:10 2007 From: alastair.ts at gmail.com (Alastair Teeling-Smith) Date: Tue May 15 15:50:35 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Oregan Hoskins In-Reply-To: <005201c796f0$38648e20$0200a8c0@dad> References: <2250304b0705150119t598709f0w82310f8298227f09@mail.gmail.com> <005201c796f0$38648e20$0200a8c0@dad> Message-ID: <2250304b0705150650u70b34ffdhed30cc71ee33e4f5@mail.gmail.com> Thanks That's really interesting. On 5/15/07, Rob G wrote: > > Hello Alastair, > > The only online reference I've found so far was made way back by the Mail > and Gaurdian on 21 Dec 2006 at; > > http://www.earthyear.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=294144&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__sport/ > > Rob G > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Alastair Teeling-Smith > *To:* list@sthelena.se > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:19 AM > *Subject:* [STHELENA] Oregan Hoskins > > > Hi > > The President of the South African Rugby Union, Oregan Hoskins, is in the > news in South Africa because of a controversial interview. > > I have heard he, or his parents, are from St Helena. Can anyone confirm > this? > > Alastair > > ------------------------------ > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date: 2007/05/14 > 04:46 PM > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/34c883a0/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Tue May 15 16:06:18 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Tue May 15 16:06:57 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Oregan Hoskins In-Reply-To: <2250304b0705150650u70b34ffdhed30cc71ee33e4f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <2250304b0705150119t598709f0w82310f8298227f09@mail.gmail.com> <005201c796f0$38648e20$0200a8c0@dad> <2250304b0705150650u70b34ffdhed30cc71ee33e4f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C965115815697E-EC0-A95@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> Yes it is. -----Original Message----- From: alastair.ts@gmail.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Oregan Hoskins Thanks That's really interesting. On 5/15/07, Rob G wrote: Hello Alastair, The only online reference I've found so far was made way back by the Mail and Gaurdian on 21 Dec 2006 at; http://www.earthyear.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=294144&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__sport/ Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: Alastair Teeling-Smith To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Oregan Hoskins Hi The President of the South African Rugby Union, Oregan Hoskins, is in the news in South Africa because of a controversial interview. I have heard he, or his parents, are from St Helena. Can anyone confirm this? Alastair The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date: 2007/05/14 04:46 PM The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/7ac86046/attachment.htm From Nola.Crowie at corobrik.co.za Tue May 15 16:13:06 2007 From: Nola.Crowie at corobrik.co.za (Nola Crowie) Date: Tue May 15 16:14:36 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins In-Reply-To: <2250304b0705150648i4333b702id3e66df7d5e2db20@mail.gmail.com> References: <2250304b0705150119t598709f0w82310f8298227f09@mail.gmail.com> <2250304b0705150324r662fc2c3xdd00be87831553ef@mail.gmail.com> <8C965050F6F298A-468-563@WEBMAIL-RA19.sysops.aol.com> <8AF98DD3-CB91-4A57-BB27-901B7EF71EE2@earthlink.net> <2250304b0705150648i4333b702id3e66df7d5e2db20@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4649DC8E.E1AB.00C6.0@corobrik.co.za> This e-mail and all contents are subject to the following disclaimer: http://www.corobrik.com/emaildisclaimer.htm ** High Priority ** Hi Alastair I am at the moment trying to find out more about Oregan Hoskins who is originally from my birth town, Pietermaritzburg in KwaZulu-Natal. For info, the Crowie family (which is my maiden name) is originally from St. Helena Island. My Birth Certificate states "St. Helena Island" as race. My grandparents were from St. Helena i.e. Abrahim & Maria Crowie & my mother's parents were from there as well, Edward John Green (John settled at St. Helena Island from Ireland. I will keep in touch as soon as I know. For the record, my mother Elizabeth Kate Green married Walter Edward Crowie and she has just turned 91 years on 13th May 2007 (Mothers Day in SA). It was always her wish to visit the island of her parents, but unfortunately, it wasn't possible. I will keep you all updated as soon as I receive some feedback on Oregan. With kind regards. Nola Crowie Export Co-Ordinator (Office of Peter Kidger) Tel: +27 (31) 560 3435 Fax: +27 (31) 560 3411 nola.crowie@corobrik.co.za >>> On 15/05/2007 at 3:48 PM, in message <2250304b0705150648i4333b702id3e66df7d5e2db20@mail.gmail.com>, "Alastair Teeling-Smith" wrote: Hi Chris I'm just mildly curious ... that's all Alastair On 5/15/07, Christopher D. Lewis wrote: > > Hi > > The President of the South African Rugby Union, Oregan Hoskins, is > in the news in South Africa because of a controversial interview. > > I have heard he, or his parents, are from St Helena. Can anyone > confirm this? > > Alastair Is it important that the person 'confirming' this have any actual knowledge of the facts, or even admit a real name on the mailing list? How would you tell? Just wondering how you'd check your source. Take care, Chris The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. Corobrik (Pty) Ltd Reg No 1962/003262/07 P O Box 201367 Durban North KZN 4016 Tel +27 31 5603111 Fax +27 31 5651532 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/1acaf2da/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Tue May 15 16:17:05 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Tue May 15 16:17:40 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins In-Reply-To: <4649DC8E.E1AB.00C6.0@corobrik.co.za> References: <2250304b0705150119t598709f0w82310f8298227f09@mail.gmail.com> <2250304b0705150324r662fc2c3xdd00be87831553ef@mail.gmail.com> <8C965050F6F298A-468-563@WEBMAIL-RA19.sysops.aol.com> <8AF98DD3-CB91-4A57-BB27-901B7EF71EE2@earthlink.net> <2250304b0705150648i4333b702id3e66df7d5e2db20@mail.gmail.com> <4649DC8E.E1AB.00C6.0@corobrik.co.za> Message-ID: <8C96512D99841A0-EC0-B4E@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> ok -----Original Message----- From: Nola.Crowie@corobrik.co.za To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins This e-mail and all contents are subject to the following disclaimer: http://www.corobrik.com/emaildisclaimer.htm Hi Alastair I am at the moment trying to find out more about Oregan Hoskins who is originally from my birth town, Pietermaritzburg in KwaZulu-Natal. For info, the Crowie family (which is my maiden name) is originally from St. Helena Island. My Birth Certificate states "St. Helena Island" as race. My grandparents were from St. Helena i.e. Abrahim & Maria Crowie & my mother's parents were from there as well, Edward John Green (John settled at St. Helena Island from Ireland. I will keep in touch as soon as I know. For the record, my mother Elizabeth Kate Green married Walter Edward Crowie and she has just turned 91 years on 13th May 2007 (Mothers Day in SA). It was always her wish to visit the island of her parents, but unfortunately, it wasn't possible. I will keep you all updated as soon as I receive some feedback on Oregan. With kind regards. Nola Crowie Export Co-Ordinator (Office of Peter Kidger) Tel: +27 (31) 560 3435 Fax: +27 (31) 560 3411 nola.crowie@corobrik.co.za >>> On 15/05/2007 at 3:48 PM, in message <2250304b0705150648i4333b702id3e66df7d5e2db20@mail.gmail.com>, "Alastair Teeling-Smith" wrote: Hi Chris I'm just mildly curious ... that's all Alastair On 5/15/07, Christopher D. Lewis wrote: > > Hi > > The President of the South African Rugby Union, Oregan Hoskins, is > in the news in South Africa because of a controversial interview. > > I have heard he, or his parents, are from St Helena. Can anyone > confirm this? > > Alastair Is it important that the person 'confirming' this have any actual knowledge of the facts, or even admit a real name on the mailing list? How would you tell? Just wondering how you'd check your source. Take care, Chris The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. Corobrik (Pty) Ltd Reg No 1962/003262/07 P O Box 201367 Durban North KZN 4016 Tel +27 31 5603111 Fax +27 31 5651532 The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/55df0847/attachment.htm From Nola.Crowie at corobrik.co.za Tue May 15 16:17:48 2007 From: Nola.Crowie at corobrik.co.za (Nola Crowie) Date: Tue May 15 16:19:29 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins Message-ID: <4649DDA7.E1AB.00C6.0@corobrik.co.za> This e-mail and all contents are subject to the following disclaimer: http://www.corobrik.com/emaildisclaimer.htm ** High Priority ** Hi Alastair I am at the moment trying to find out more about Oregan Hoskins who is originally from my birth town, Pietermaritzburg in KwaZulu-Natal. For info, the Crowie family (which is my maiden name) is originally from St. Helena Island. My Birth Certificate states "St. Helena Island" as race. My grandparents were from St. Helena i.e. Abrahim & Maria Crowie & my mother's parents were from there as well, Edward John Green (John settled at St. Helena Island from Ireland. I will keep in touch as soon as I know. For the record, my mother Elizabeth Kate Green married Walter Edward Crowie (now late) and she has just turned 91 years on 13th May 2007 (Mothers Day in SA). We are 5 brothers & 7 sisters. It was always her wish to visit the island of her parents, but unfortunately, it wasn't possible. I will keep you all updated as soon as I receive some feedback on Oregan. With kind regards. Nola Crowie Export Co-Ordinator (Office of Peter Kidger) Tel: +27 (31) 560 3435 Fax: +27 (31) 560 3411 nola.crowie@corobrik.co.za >>> On 15/05/2007 at 3:48 PM, in message <2250304b0705150648i4333b702id3e66df7d5e2db20@mail.gmail.com>, "Alastair Teeling-Smith" wrote: Hi Chris I'm just mildly curious ... that's all Alastair On 5/15/07, Christopher D. Lewis wrote: > > Hi > > The President of the South African Rugby Union, Oregan Hoskins, is > in the news in South Africa because of a controversial interview. > > I have heard he, or his parents, are from St Helena. Can anyone > confirm this? > > Alastair Is it important that the person 'confirming' this have any actual knowledge of the facts, or even admit a real name on the mailing list? How would you tell? Just wondering how you'd check your source. Take care, Chris The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. Corobrik (Pty) Ltd Reg No 1962/003262/07 P O Box 201367 Durban North KZN 4016 Tel +27 31 5603111 Fax +27 31 5651532 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/32b3f635/attachment.htm From cplowe at mchsi.com Tue May 15 16:30:39 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (cplowe@mchsi.com) Date: Tue May 15 16:31:10 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins Message-ID: <051520071430.428.4649C40F00094974000001AC219792676103010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com> Belated birthday and mother's day wishes to your mom. Hope she is in good health. I think it must be wonderful still to have her. Pam ---------------------- Original Message: --------------------- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 14:17:54 +0000 > ok > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nola.Crowie@corobrik.co.za > To: list@sthelena.se > Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 8:13 AM > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins > > > This e-mail and all contents are subject to the following disclaimer: > http://www.corobrik.com/emaildisclaimer.htm > > > Hi Alastair > > I am at the moment trying to find out more about Oregan Hoskins who is > originally from my birth town, Pietermaritzburg in KwaZulu-Natal. > > For info, the Crowie family (which is my maiden name) is originally from St. > Helena Island. My Birth Certificate states "St. Helena Island" as race. > > My grandparents were from St. Helena i.e. Abrahim & Maria Crowie & my mother's > parents were from there as well, Edward John Green (John settled at St. Helena > Island from Ireland. > > I will keep in touch as soon as I know. For the record, my mother Elizabeth > Kate Green married Walter Edward Crowie and she has just turned 91 years on 13th > May 2007 (Mothers Day in SA). It was always her wish to visit the island of her > parents, but unfortunately, it wasn't possible. > > I will keep you all updated as soon as I receive some feedback on Oregan. > > > > With kind regards. > > Nola Crowie > Export Co-Ordinator > (Office of Peter Kidger) > Tel: +27 (31) 560 3435 > Fax: +27 (31) 560 3411 > nola.crowie@corobrik.co.za > > > >>> On 15/05/2007 at 3:48 PM, in message > <2250304b0705150648i4333b702id3e66df7d5e2db20@mail.gmail.com>, "Alastair > Teeling-Smith" wrote: > > Hi Chris > > I'm just mildly curious ... that's all > > Alastair > > > On 5/15/07, Christopher D. Lewis wrote: > > > > Hi > > > > The President of the South African Rugby Union, Oregan Hoskins, is > > in the news in South Africa because of a controversial interview. > > > > I have heard he, or his parents, are from St Helena. Can anyone > > confirm this? > > > > Alastair > > Is it important that the person 'confirming' this have any actual > knowledge of the facts, or even admit a real name on the mailing > list? How would you tell? > > Just wondering how you'd check your source. > > Take care, > Chris > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > Corobrik (Pty) Ltd > Reg No 1962/003262/07 > P O Box 201367 Durban North KZN 4016 > Tel +27 31 5603111 > Fax +27 31 5651532 > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam > and email virus protection. > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From prporter1 at aim.com Tue May 15 16:57:27 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Tue May 15 16:58:05 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins In-Reply-To: <4649DDA7.E1AB.00C6.0@corobrik.co.za> References: <4649DDA7.E1AB.00C6.0@corobrik.co.za> Message-ID: <8C965187D348A7E-1F4C-E76@MBLK-M41.sysops.aol.com> ok thanks -----Original Message----- From: Nola.Crowie@corobrik.co.za To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fwd: Oregan Hoskins This e-mail and all contents are subject to the following disclaimer: http://www.corobrik.com/emaildisclaimer.htm Hi Alastair I am at the moment trying to find out more about Oregan Hoskins who is originally from my birth town, Pietermaritzburg in KwaZulu-Natal. For info, the Crowie family (which is my maiden name) is originally from St. Helena Island. My Birth Certificate states "St. Helena Island" as race. My grandparents were from St. Helena i.e. Abrahim & Maria Crowie & my mother's parents were from there as well, Edward John Green (John settled at St. Helena Island from Ireland. I will keep in touch as soon as I know. For the record, my mother Elizabeth Kate Green married Walter Edward Crowie (now late) and she has just turned 91 years on 13th May 2007 (Mothers Day in SA). We are 5 brothers & 7 sisters. It was always her wish to visit the island of her parents, but unfortunately, it wasn't possible. I will keep you all updated as soon as I receive some feedback on Oregan. With kind regards. Nola Crowie Export Co-Ordinator (Office of Peter Kidger) Tel: +27 (31) 560 3435 Fax: +27 (31) 560 3411 nola.crowie@corobrik.co.za >>> On 15/05/2007 at 3:48 PM, in message <2250304b0705150648i4333b702id3e66df7d5e2db20@mail.gmail.com>, "Alastair Teeling-Smith" wrote: Hi Chris I'm just mildly curious ... that's all Alastair On 5/15/07, Christopher D. Lewis wrote: > > Hi > > The President of the South African Rugby Union, Oregan Hoskins, is > in the news in South Africa because of a controversial interview. > > I have heard he, or his parents, are from St Helena. Can anyone > confirm this? > > Alastair Is it important that the person 'confirming' this have any actual knowledge of the facts, or even admit a real name on the mailing list? How would you tell? Just wondering how you'd check your source. Take care, Chris The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. Corobrik (Pty) Ltd Reg No 1962/003262/07 P O Box 201367 Durban North KZN 4016 Tel +27 31 5603111 Fax +27 31 5651532 The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/42ffc23a/attachment.htm From john.ekwall at mailbox.swipnet.se Tue May 15 18:54:42 2007 From: john.ekwall at mailbox.swipnet.se (John Ekwall) Date: Tue May 15 18:55:36 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Telephone number Message-ID: <000a01c79711$cb9d7280$638afc53@TOSHIBA> Hi, Hope that all of you respect that no personal info such as telephonenumbers to individuals on St Helena will be published on list. I have the latest directory in my hand (2006) - updates can be found on http://www.saint.fm/Independent/index.htm in almost every issue (aah - seems that I have to update my directory). Nevertheless - don't forget that you can reply to an individual on the list by using by "properties" in your mail-programme. "Hokke" has got the number from me regarding his request. John Ekwall List Moderator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/14363584/attachment.htm From h_vanlendt at yahoo.com Wed May 16 05:30:26 2007 From: h_vanlendt at yahoo.com (Heather Van Lendt) Date: Wed May 16 05:30:54 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Family Research Message-ID: <37333.36998.qm@web35415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, I am researching information on my grandmother who came from St. Helena. Her name was Lettie Van Lendt. I am not sure if she ever married. She settled in Johannesburg, South Africa and had a son Douglas. I do not have her birth date as yet. I would appreciate some help on how to find out more information from St. Helena. Heather Van Lendt Australia --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/aabdac82/attachment.htm From h_vanlendt at yahoo.com Wed May 16 05:39:35 2007 From: h_vanlendt at yahoo.com (Heather Van Lendt) Date: Wed May 16 05:40:05 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Family Research In-Reply-To: <37333.36998.qm@web35415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <659746.87837.qm@web35411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, I do not wish to unsubscribe. Thanks Heather Heather Van Lendt wrote: Hi, I am researching information on my grandmother who came from St. Helena. Her name was Lettie Van Lendt. I am not sure if she ever married. She settled in Johannesburg, South Africa and had a son Douglas. I do not have her birth date as yet. I would appreciate some help on how to find out more information from St. Helena. Heather Van Lendt Australia --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070515/3a177e05/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Wed May 16 15:25:46 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Wed May 16 15:26:20 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Family Research In-Reply-To: <659746.87837.qm@web35411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C965D4D882B72E-1074-4D4C@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com> ok -----Original Message----- From: h_vanlendt@yahoo.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 9:39 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Family Research Hi, I do not wish to unsubscribe. Thanks Heather Heather Van Lendt wrote: Hi, I am researching information on my grandmother who came from St. Helena. Her name was Lettie Van Lendt. I am not sure if she ever married. She settled in Johannesburg, South Africa and had a son Douglas. I do not have her birth date as yet. I would appreciate some help on how to find out more information from St. Helena. Heather Van Lendt Australia No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070516/d40ee177/attachment.htm From ahs at st-helena.org Wed May 16 20:43:14 2007 From: ahs at st-helena.org (A.H. Schulenburg) Date: Wed May 16 20:45:51 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] 18th Century East India merchantman sails into London 19 May - 2 June Message-ID: <009d01c797ea$78f48260$0301a8c0@TIME2003> East India merchantman sails into London 19 May to 2 JuneThe 18th Century Swedish Ship G?theborg, a full-scale replica of an 18th Century East India merchantman, sails into London with cannons firing on Saturday 19 May from 2.00pm. The Swedish ship G?theborg is the first ever replica East India merchant vessel to sail into London and is the only ship like it in the world. The ship is returning to London 262 years after her original namesake left for Sweden; a dramatic, final voyage that saw the ship wrecked just outside Gothenburg Harbour as an insurance scam. She will stay in London until 2 June. Further details at: http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/media_centre/files2007/18th+Century+Swedish+Ship+Gotheborg+arrives+in+London.htm Regards, Alexander -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070516/a2586252/attachment.htm From smarshall at absamail.co.za Sat May 19 13:35:04 2007 From: smarshall at absamail.co.za (sharon marshall) Date: Sat May 19 13:35:46 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] SA genealogy Message-ID: <004701c79a09$bf35dd70$0d00000a@Sharon> Am not sure if everyone's aware of it, but there are a few helpful transcriptions for people trying to trace St Helena ancestors who emigrated to South Africa on www.genealogyworld.net Kind regards Sharon Marshall Cape Town -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070519/9169dec1/attachment.htm From ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au Sat May 19 20:50:59 2007 From: ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au (Terry Herbert) Date: Sat May 19 20:51:16 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Odd advice In-Reply-To: <014701c78c8e$9e0b16c0$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> Message-ID: <20070519185058.870742599@ctb-mesg7.saix.net> Giuliano, As John Turner has said most people stay on the island for one week, but it is possible to stay longer. As far as medical insurance is concerned, everyone who travels on RMS St Helena has to have at least ?1 million to cover medical expenses. So, it stands to reason ghat everyone who comes to the island by ship has the cover that the Government requires. For those few people who arrive without medical insurance - mainly yachtsmen or people who have managed to get on the RMS without insurance - cover to meet the Government requirements can be bought on the island at a reasonable cost. You have 48 hours to complete this purchase. Hope that clears up the issue. All the best Terry Herbert In stormy Cape Town, having just got back from the island, but usually of DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, Australia -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of giuliano tordini Sent: Wednesday, 2 May 2007 5:51 PM To: thomas@flyingkettle.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Odd advice What does this means: that I could not stay a week in your island? giuliano ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Goodey" To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:12 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Odd advice > On 20 Apr 2007 at 12:18, A.H. Schulenburg wrote: > >> There is another strange bit of info on that page. See if you can >> spot it. > > I see: > > "If you do not have a British passport and do not have medical > insurance you will only be allowed to stay for 48 hours." > > I find this difficult to believe. If true, it rules out more than > half of potential tourists. For example, I couldn't visit SH with my > wife, because she is a Japanese national. > > This counterproductive rule (if it really exists) will obviously > collapse with the advent of the airport - if that day ever dawns... > > Thomas Goodey > > ********************************* > The introduction of a multiplicity > of objectives into a problem not > only destroys its unity, but also > increases markedly both the > time necessary for, and the > actual personal danger involved > in, its solution. > ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII > ************************************** > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From cplowe at mchsi.com Sun May 20 05:42:23 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD) Date: Sun May 20 05:42:09 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Odd advice References: <20070519185058.870742599@ctb-mesg7.saix.net> Message-ID: <000601c79a90$e0760eb0$6401a8c0@Pam> Terry, How was your stay on the island. Do you think the RMS St Helena will last until the airport is built? It sees as though it need extensive repairs this time? Glad you had a safe trip. Pam ps Cape Town is another spot on my top ten of places to visit. May I ask where you stay in Cape Town and on St Helena? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Herbert" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" ; Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Odd advice > Giuliano, > > As John Turner has said most people stay on the island for one week, but > it > is possible to stay longer. > > As far as medical insurance is concerned, everyone who travels on RMS St > Helena has to have at least ?1 million to cover medical expenses. So, it > stands to reason ghat everyone who comes to the island by ship has the > cover > that the Government requires. > > For those few people who arrive without medical insurance - mainly > yachtsmen > or people who have managed to get on the RMS without insurance - cover to > meet the Government requirements can be bought on the island at a > reasonable > cost. You have 48 hours to complete this purchase. > > Hope that clears up the issue. > > All the best > > Terry Herbert > In stormy Cape Town, having just got back from the island, but usually of > DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, > Australia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf > Of giuliano tordini > Sent: Wednesday, 2 May 2007 5:51 PM > To: thomas@flyingkettle.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the > South > Atlantic(Eng) > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Odd advice > > What does this means: that I could not stay a week in your island? > giuliano > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Goodey" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:12 PM > Subject: [STHELENA] Odd advice > > >> On 20 Apr 2007 at 12:18, A.H. Schulenburg wrote: >> >>> There is another strange bit of info on that page. See if you can >>> spot it. >> >> I see: >> >> "If you do not have a British passport and do not have medical >> insurance you will only be allowed to stay for 48 hours." >> >> I find this difficult to believe. If true, it rules out more than >> half of potential tourists. For example, I couldn't visit SH with my >> wife, because she is a Japanese national. >> >> This counterproductive rule (if it really exists) will obviously >> collapse with the advent of the airport - if that day ever dawns... >> >> Thomas Goodey >> >> ********************************* >> The introduction of a multiplicity >> of objectives into a problem not >> only destroys its unity, but also >> increases markedly both the >> time necessary for, and the >> actual personal danger involved >> in, its solution. >> ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII >> ************************************** >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au Sun May 20 15:52:28 2007 From: ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au (Terry Herbert) Date: Sun May 20 15:52:49 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <46490A49.00002D.01408@DEIRD> Message-ID: <20070520135222.ACF3023A8@ctb-mesg9.saix.net> Hi Deirdre, I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a boulder that bounded down the hillside - a common problem in St Helena after the rainy season loosens some of the rocks. All the best Terry _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Eugene & Deirdre Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island. Would it be possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. Do hope this is not too much trouble. Deirdre Blunt >From Australia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070520/5d5fd28b/attachment.htm From ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au Sun May 20 17:49:28 2007 From: ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au (Terry Herbert) Date: Sun May 20 17:50:08 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Odd advice In-Reply-To: <000601c79a90$e0760eb0$6401a8c0@Pam> Message-ID: <20070520154938.23B50DA63@ctb-mesg-2-1.saix.net> G'day Pam, Juliet and all. As ever, the trips to and from the island were terrific - there really isn't another vessel like the good old RMS, problem engines and all. We are not sure if the food is as good as it ever was, or better than ever!! One of the biggest issues to deal with on the voyage is how to avoid packing on the pounds/kilos/stones [depending on your method of calculating body mass]. The soups were tremendous - all the food is good, but they are outstanding. We docked at Walvis Bay on the way up to the island (as we see it - the Saints say they go UP to Cape Town and DOWN to the island!). Having been to Walvis before, we didn't go ashore, as there isn't a tremendous amount to see. We always prefer going on the voyages that give Walvis a miss because the first couple of days are inevitably in misty weather because of the cold Benguella current which runs close into the coast. You also miss the magnificent seabirds that follow the ship - albatross, terns, petrels and all - when in the open sea. The sea was pretty calm all the way to St Helena so we made good time and the stevedores did an excellent job in shifting the cargo, so the ship got under way for Ascension Island in good time, while most of the passengers went ashore. It was much more windy than it had been on any of our other visits (all six of them!) but when the wind dropped it was pretty warm. As ever there was a mixed bunch on the ship of all ages and nationalities - one of the nice things is that the mix is pretty eclectic and most people have an interesting story as to why they're going and how they heard about the island. Notably this time were a married couple of 88 and 90 years respectively and a widow of 92 travelling with her daughter and son-in-law. Good old folk, the 92 year old was tripping the light fantastic with the captain on deck on barbecue night the evening before our arrival. Not everyone was that vintage of course!! I never have much time for exploration on the island as my work keeps me pretty busy, but we managed to get an evening in down at Donny's and try the 'home brew' Tungi (pronounced toonchi) liquor that he has started distilling. That's pretty powerful stuff I must say! If any of you visiting the island want an unusual souvenir, apart from the bottle of Tungi, which is stepped to mirror Jacob's Ladder, ask Donny to sell you a Donny's golf short or a Tungi one, but ask him early in your stay and nag him. I ordered mine on Tuesday evening and he promised it for delivery before we boarded, but missed that. It was only the fact that the ship didn't sail that got them delivered! The time we made up on the journey from Cape Town was lost in Ascension Island where loading problems delayed the ship about five hours. That meant that we couldn't sail on Sunday night as planned. Most of us board the ship that evening anyway as there was a possibility of sailing early the following morning. But one of those St Helena swells came up which made it very difficult to load either passengers or cargo. How the stevedores manage the containers in a heavy swell has to be seen to be believed - if First World Occupation Health and Safety regulations applied on the island, nothing would ever get on or off the ship. It was a bit bumpy as we left the lea of the island, with a fair wind and some white horses - enough to send some of the passengers to their beds and to miss out on their initial dinner, but it calmed down after that, certainly enough for us to have two more games of cricket to decide the series that had begun on the way up, when the crew whacked us passengers. We won the second match and the third was a nail biter with the crew winning by one wicket and one run. Great fun all around. We could see on the weather map an enormous cold front, followed by another heading towards the Cape and guessed that it might arrive at the same time as we did. That caused some big swells and very high winds, in fact the docks were closed to all traffic, but they let us in, presumably because the RMS is small enough to be handled by two tugs. Just as well we got in when we did though because by yesterday afternoon, the wind was really howling, with torrential rain. It is a bit better today, but is pretty darned cold - and they are predicting a bit of snow on the mountains tonight. It'll still be pretty chilly in August Juliet, so make sure you have some warm clothes for your Cape Town stop! Pam, you asked where we stay. In Cape Town we usually bed down with my brother, who lives in Kalk Bay, a little fishing village about 25 km out of the city, but he and his wife went off to their holiday home on one of the Greek Isles (to avoid the winter weather) while we were away, so we are now at The Constantia Stables, which is always our alternative choice. You can see it here http://www.capestay.co.za/constantiastables/ A lovely spot. On the island we always stay at the Consulate Hotel as it is very convenient for business - their site is at http://www.consulatehotel.co.sh/ Although they claim to be a luxury hotel, that term is relative. We are always very comfortable there, but luxury is pushing things a bit far. If you're thinking of self catering, there are several spots, but one that gets a good deal of praise is the Flagg's - see http://www.flaggssthelena.com/ Their house is in Half Tree Hollow, so staying there you'd need a car, but they are not expensive to hire - make arrangements in advance as sometimes they're difficult to get hold of. Will the RMS last until the airport is built? Rather ask, will the airport ever be built? And if not, when will they be starting to build a replacement for the RMS? I simply cannot see the airport EVER being built, unless Ascension Island becomes volcanic and the USA forces feel they still need a landing ground in the mid-Atlantic. Then you might see it built in about six months!! Must dash - we're off to see some old pals tonight. All the best Terry -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD Sent: Sunday, 20 May 2007 1:42 PM To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Odd advice Terry, How was your stay on the island. Do you think the RMS St Helena will last until the airport is built? It sees as though it need extensive repairs this time? Glad you had a safe trip. Pam ps Cape Town is another spot on my top ten of places to visit. May I ask where you stay in Cape Town and on St Helena? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Herbert" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" ; Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Odd advice > Giuliano, > > As John Turner has said most people stay on the island for one week, but > it > is possible to stay longer. > > As far as medical insurance is concerned, everyone who travels on RMS St > Helena has to have at least ?1 million to cover medical expenses. So, it > stands to reason ghat everyone who comes to the island by ship has the > cover > that the Government requires. > > For those few people who arrive without medical insurance - mainly > yachtsmen > or people who have managed to get on the RMS without insurance - cover to > meet the Government requirements can be bought on the island at a > reasonable > cost. You have 48 hours to complete this purchase. > > Hope that clears up the issue. > > All the best > > Terry Herbert > In stormy Cape Town, having just got back from the island, but usually of > DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, > Australia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf > Of giuliano tordini > Sent: Wednesday, 2 May 2007 5:51 PM > To: thomas@flyingkettle.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the > South > Atlantic(Eng) > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Odd advice > > What does this means: that I could not stay a week in your island? > giuliano > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Goodey" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:12 PM > Subject: [STHELENA] Odd advice > > >> On 20 Apr 2007 at 12:18, A.H. Schulenburg wrote: >> >>> There is another strange bit of info on that page. See if you can >>> spot it. >> >> I see: >> >> "If you do not have a British passport and do not have medical >> insurance you will only be allowed to stay for 48 hours." >> >> I find this difficult to believe. If true, it rules out more than >> half of potential tourists. For example, I couldn't visit SH with my >> wife, because she is a Japanese national. >> >> This counterproductive rule (if it really exists) will obviously >> collapse with the advent of the airport - if that day ever dawns... >> >> Thomas Goodey >> >> ********************************* >> The introduction of a multiplicity >> of objectives into a problem not >> only destroys its unity, but also >> increases markedly both the >> time necessary for, and the >> actual personal danger involved >> in, its solution. >> ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII >> ************************************** >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From charlesx at xtra.co.nz Sun May 20 23:57:27 2007 From: charlesx at xtra.co.nz (Charles Le Breton) Date: Sun May 20 23:58:30 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton References: <20070520135222.ACF3023A8@ctb-mesg9.saix.net> Message-ID: <006901c79b29$db5ba810$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Hi Terry, Deirdre and I are two of a group of three following up a Le Breton line. Captain John Le Breton who was on island early 19thC is our main interest in your neck of the woods. He married Elizabeth Newton and parts of his family stayed there for most of 19thC. See below extract I located in Vol. 2 Land Planning and Control Ordinance - Appendix 4 Listed Buildings. While I was originally looking for Villa Le Breton which is there also (second listed as below) on page 12 in particular is first entry. I do not know whether Villa Le Breton has any connection to family but Mr. Le Breton's house sounds very interesting. Perhaps they both have some connection. I have searched the internet for Villa Le Breton but only found interior shots. If you able to provide photos and background of both or alternatively put us onto somebody who could that would be terrific. Something else of interest to me more but could help anyway is the parcel number quoted for each. I work in a government department in New Zealand that administers title and survey information and other property related interests (overseas investment in land, rating valuations, surveys other than cadastral, Crown owned land including management, acquisition and disposal). For example what kind of system do you have in St. Helena. Is it like UK - a deeds type system. Ours is based on Torrens system although we still have remnants of old deeds system. Is it perhaps possible and at what cost to do an historical search of these properties. I thought as a banker you would have knowledge of this area. Also is your system computerised. We have over the last 10 years been progressively developing a fully computerised system including compulsory E-Lodgement of title transactions and surveys. Parcel No. Item Description Date Grade JT5/16 Mr Le Breton's house 2 storey 9 bays Early 18th C II 2 doors all windows (have not previously found this one) JT15/11 Villa Le Breton 2 storey 5 bay + 1 bay house Early 19th C II with added verandahs and back additions. Windows sashed Hoping you can help or point us in right direction. Regards Chas Le Breton ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Herbert To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 1:52 AM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Hi Deirdre, I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a boulder that bounded down the hillside - a common problem in St Helena after the rainy season loosens some of the rocks. All the best Terry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Eugene & Deirdre Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island. Would it be possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. Do hope this is not too much trouble. Deirdre Blunt From Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 996 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070521/ab29cf84/attachment.htm From h_vanlendt at yahoo.com Mon May 21 07:06:30 2007 From: h_vanlendt at yahoo.com (Heather Van Lendt) Date: Mon May 21 07:07:03 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <20070520135222.ACF3023A8@ctb-mesg9.saix.net> Message-ID: <964827.67690.qm@web35401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me find some information on my grandmother (surname is Van Lendt). Is there a Department of Births who I can contact. Unfortunately, I cannot gain access to a phone book from Australia. Much appreciated Heather Van lendt Terry Herbert wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 4.0 ; Hi Deirdre, I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a boulder that bounded down the hillside ? a common problem in St Helena after the rainy season loosens some of the rocks. All the best Terry --------------------------------- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Eugene & Deirdre Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island. Would it be possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. Do hope this is not too much trouble. Deirdre Blunt From Australia The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070520/f00cac6f/attachment.htm From h_vanlendt at yahoo.com Mon May 21 07:14:03 2007 From: h_vanlendt at yahoo.com (Heather Van Lendt) Date: Mon May 21 07:14:34 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <964827.67690.qm@web35401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <974125.25883.qm@web35410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me find some information on my grandmother (surname is Van Lendt). Is there a Department of Births who I can contact. Unfortunately, I cannot gain access to a phone book from Australia. Much appreciated Heather Van lendt Terry Herbert wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 4.0 ; Hi Deirdre, I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a boulder that bounded down the hillside ? a common problem in St Helena after the rainy season loosens some of the rocks. All the best Terry --------------------------------- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Eugene & Deirdre Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island. Would it be possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. Do hope this is not too much trouble. Deirdre Blunt From Australia The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. --------------------------------- Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070520/8734f971/attachment.htm From jcoyle at powerup.com.au Mon May 21 10:13:53 2007 From: jcoyle at powerup.com.au (John Coyle) Date: Mon May 21 10:14:12 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton References: <964827.67690.qm@web35401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002801c79b7f$f91d0910$0200a8c0@Concorde> Heather, try this link for the Australian White Pages: http://www.whitepages.com.au/wp/ HTH John Coyle Brisbane, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Van Lendt" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 3:06 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > Hi, > > I wonder if anyone can help me find some information on my grandmother (surname is Van > Lendt). Is there a Department of Births who I can contact. Unfortunately, I cannot gain > access to a phone book from Australia. > From prporter1 at aim.com Mon May 21 14:29:34 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Mon May 21 14:30:01 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <964827.67690.qm@web35401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C969BAD2E060CD-14C-2AD@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> No. -----Original Message----- From: Heather Van Lendt To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Sun, 20 May 2007 11:06 pm Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Hi, ? I wonder if anyone can help me find some information on my grandmother (surname is Van Lendt).? Is there a Department of Births who I can contact.? Unfortunately, I cannot gain access to a phone book from Australia.? ? Much appreciated Heather Van lendt Terry Herbert wrote: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 4.0 ; Hi Deirdre, I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a boulder that bounded down the hillside ? a common problem in St Helena after the rainy season loosens some of the rocks. All the best ? Terry?? From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Eugene & Deirdre Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton ? During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island.? Would it be possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? ? I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. ? Do hope this is not too much trouble. ? Deirdre Blunt >From Australia ? ? ? ? The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070521/6596fc72/attachment.htm From deird at optusnet.com.au Tue May 22 02:54:36 2007 From: deird at optusnet.com.au (Eugene & Deirdre) Date: Tue May 22 02:54:45 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton and research Message-ID: <46523F4C.000003.04004@DEIRD> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 1431 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070522/30d2dac2/attachment.jpg From cplowe at mchsi.com Tue May 22 03:59:45 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD) Date: Tue May 22 03:59:29 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Odd advice References: <20070520154938.23B50DA63@ctb-mesg-2-1.saix.net> Message-ID: <001a01c79c14$dee77c20$6401a8c0@Pam> Sounds wonderful except for the sea sick part!! Thanks for sharing your adventure Pam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Herbert" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:49 AM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Odd advice > G'day Pam, Juliet and all. > > As ever, the trips to and from the island were terrific - there really > isn't > another vessel like the good old RMS, problem engines and all. We are not > sure if the food is as good as it ever was, or better than ever!! One of > the > biggest issues to deal with on the voyage is how to avoid packing on the > pounds/kilos/stones [depending on your method of calculating body mass]. > The > soups were tremendous - all the food is good, but they are outstanding. > > We docked at Walvis Bay on the way up to the island (as we see it - the > Saints say they go UP to Cape Town and DOWN to the island!). Having been > to > Walvis before, we didn't go ashore, as there isn't a tremendous amount to > see. We always prefer going on the voyages that give Walvis a miss because > the first couple of days are inevitably in misty weather because of the > cold > Benguella current which runs close into the coast. You also miss the > magnificent seabirds that follow the ship - albatross, terns, petrels and > all - when in the open sea. > > The sea was pretty calm all the way to St Helena so we made good time and > the stevedores did an excellent job in shifting the cargo, so the ship got > under way for Ascension Island in good time, while most of the passengers > went ashore. It was much more windy than it had been on any of our other > visits (all six of them!) but when the wind dropped it was pretty warm. As > ever there was a mixed bunch on the ship of all ages and nationalities - > one > of the nice things is that the mix is pretty eclectic and most people have > an interesting story as to why they're going and how they heard about the > island. Notably this time were a married couple of 88 and 90 years > respectively and a widow of 92 travelling with her daughter and > son-in-law. > Good old folk, the 92 year old was tripping the light fantastic with the > captain on deck on barbecue night the evening before our arrival. Not > everyone was that vintage of course!! > > I never have much time for exploration on the island as my work keeps me > pretty busy, but we managed to get an evening in down at Donny's and try > the > 'home brew' Tungi (pronounced toonchi) liquor that he has started > distilling. That's pretty powerful stuff I must say! If any of you > visiting > the island want an unusual souvenir, apart from the bottle of Tungi, which > is stepped to mirror Jacob's Ladder, ask Donny to sell you a Donny's golf > short or a Tungi one, but ask him early in your stay and nag him. I > ordered > mine on Tuesday evening and he promised it for delivery before we boarded, > but missed that. It was only the fact that the ship didn't sail that got > them delivered! > > The time we made up on the journey from Cape Town was lost in Ascension > Island where loading problems delayed the ship about five hours. That > meant > that we couldn't sail on Sunday night as planned. Most of us board the > ship > that evening anyway as there was a possibility of sailing early the > following morning. But one of those St Helena swells came up which made it > very difficult to load either passengers or cargo. How the stevedores > manage the containers in a heavy swell has to be seen to be believed - if > First World Occupation Health and Safety regulations applied on the > island, > nothing would ever get on or off the ship. > > It was a bit bumpy as we left the lea of the island, with a fair wind and > some white horses - enough to send some of the passengers to their beds > and > to miss out on their initial dinner, but it calmed down after that, > certainly enough for us to have two more games of cricket to decide the > series that had begun on the way up, when the crew whacked us passengers. > We > won the second match and the third was a nail biter with the crew winning > by > one wicket and one run. Great fun all around. > > We could see on the weather map an enormous cold front, followed by > another > heading towards the Cape and guessed that it might arrive at the same > time > as we did. That caused some big swells and very high winds, in fact the > docks were closed to all traffic, but they let us in, presumably because > the > RMS is small enough to be handled by two tugs. Just as well we got in when > we did though because by yesterday afternoon, the wind was really howling, > with torrential rain. It is a bit better today, but is pretty darned > cold - > and they are predicting a bit of snow on the mountains tonight. It'll > still > be pretty chilly in August Juliet, so make sure you have some warm clothes > for your Cape Town stop! > > Pam, you asked where we stay. In Cape Town we usually bed down with my > brother, who lives in Kalk Bay, a little fishing village about 25 km out > of > the city, but he and his wife went off to their holiday home on one of the > Greek Isles (to avoid the winter weather) while we were away, so we are > now > at The Constantia Stables, which is always our alternative choice. You can > see it here http://www.capestay.co.za/constantiastables/ A lovely spot. > > On the island we always stay at the Consulate Hotel as it is very > convenient > for business - their site is at http://www.consulatehotel.co.sh/ Although > they claim to be a luxury hotel, that term is relative. We are always very > comfortable there, but luxury is pushing things a bit far. > > If you're thinking of self catering, there are several spots, but one that > gets a good deal of praise is the Flagg's - see > http://www.flaggssthelena.com/ Their house is in Half Tree Hollow, so > staying there you'd need a car, but they are not expensive to hire - make > arrangements in advance as sometimes they're difficult to get hold of. > > Will the RMS last until the airport is built? Rather ask, will the airport > ever be built? And if not, when will they be starting to build a > replacement > for the RMS? I simply cannot see the airport EVER being built, unless > Ascension Island becomes volcanic and the USA forces feel they still need > a > landing ground in the mid-Atlantic. Then you might see it built in about > six > months!! > > Must dash - we're off to see some old pals tonight. > > > All the best > > > > Terry > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf > Of C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD > Sent: Sunday, 20 May 2007 1:42 PM > To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Odd advice > > Terry, > How was your stay on the island. > Do you think the RMS St Helena will last until the airport is built? It > sees > > as > though it need extensive repairs this time? > Glad you had a safe trip. > > Pam > ps Cape Town is another spot on my top ten of places to visit. > May I ask where you stay in Cape Town and on St Helena? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Herbert" > To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" > ; > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 2:50 PM > Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Odd advice > > >> Giuliano, >> >> As John Turner has said most people stay on the island for one week, but >> it >> is possible to stay longer. >> >> As far as medical insurance is concerned, everyone who travels on RMS St >> Helena has to have at least ?1 million to cover medical expenses. So, it >> stands to reason ghat everyone who comes to the island by ship has the >> cover >> that the Government requires. >> >> For those few people who arrive without medical insurance - mainly >> yachtsmen >> or people who have managed to get on the RMS without insurance - cover to >> meet the Government requirements can be bought on the island at a >> reasonable >> cost. You have 48 hours to complete this purchase. >> >> Hope that clears up the issue. >> >> All the best >> >> Terry Herbert >> In stormy Cape Town, having just got back from the island, but usually of >> DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, >> Australia >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On >> Behalf >> Of giuliano tordini >> Sent: Wednesday, 2 May 2007 5:51 PM >> To: thomas@flyingkettle.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the >> South >> Atlantic(Eng) >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Odd advice >> >> What does this means: that I could not stay a week in your island? >> giuliano >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Thomas Goodey" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:12 PM >> Subject: [STHELENA] Odd advice >> >> >>> On 20 Apr 2007 at 12:18, A.H. Schulenburg wrote: >>> >>>> There is another strange bit of info on that page. See if you can >>>> spot it. >>> >>> I see: >>> >>> "If you do not have a British passport and do not have medical >>> insurance you will only be allowed to stay for 48 hours." >>> >>> I find this difficult to believe. If true, it rules out more than >>> half of potential tourists. For example, I couldn't visit SH with my >>> wife, because she is a Japanese national. >>> >>> This counterproductive rule (if it really exists) will obviously >>> collapse with the advent of the airport - if that day ever dawns... >>> >>> Thomas Goodey >>> >>> ********************************* >>> The introduction of a multiplicity >>> of objectives into a problem not >>> only destroys its unity, but also >>> increases markedly both the >>> time necessary for, and the >>> actual personal danger involved >>> in, its solution. >>> ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII >>> ************************************** >>> >>> >>> The S:t Helena Mailing List >>> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >>> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From h_vanlendt at yahoo.com Tue May 22 06:51:12 2007 From: h_vanlendt at yahoo.com (Heather Van Lendt) Date: Tue May 22 06:51:45 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton and research In-Reply-To: <46523F4C.000003.04004@DEIRD> Message-ID: <434737.34389.qm@web35415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From charlesx at xtra.co.nz Tue May 22 07:09:22 2007 From: charlesx at xtra.co.nz (Charles Le Breton) Date: Tue May 22 07:10:05 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton and research References: <434737.34389.qm@web35415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01da01c79c2f$5c3b13c0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> LDS is Latter Day Saints or Mormon Church. BDM is births deaths and marriages. Regards Chas Le Breton ----- Original Message ----- From: Heather Van Lendt To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton and research Hi Deidre, Thanks so much for that information. I am new at this so am not sure what "lds and bmd" stand for. I assume that IGI stands for International Genealogical Index" Heather Eugene & Deirdre wrote: Firstly, Terry, many thanks for your email to the list regarding the Villa. I am looking forward to hearing from the current owners. As you can see from Charles Le Breton's reply, we are greatly interested in anything relating to the Le Breton and Newton families from Saint Helena. I see that Heather van Lendt is also trying to locate her ancestors from the island. Heather, I looked up the IGI, and also their family history catalogue on-line and was able to obtain a microfilm for some bmd's, also one for Wills, which have been a great help. Once you have obtained the details, you can easily order one of these films from your nearest LDS family history centre. Good luck with your research, Deirdre Blunt The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1000 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070522/1c808836/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Tue May 22 07:20:19 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Tue May 22 07:20:56 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton and research In-Reply-To: <434737.34389.qm@web35415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C96A48065E9ADC-BA4-8F5@webmail-stg-d09.sysops.aol.com> ok -----Original Message----- From: Heather Van Lendt To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 10:51 pm Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton and research Hi Deidre, ? Thanks so much for that information.? I am new at this so am not sure what "lds and bmd" stand for.? I assume that IGI stands for International Genealogical Index" ? Heather Eugene & Deirdre wrote: BA285063-5BCE-11D4-AF8D-0050DAC67E11 2.0 Letter Letter\rice_fields.imf Elegant Paper Stationery Rice Fields SU1CTDEsNDEsgUmBSTAkkcGNgZmVTY0wNCxNhYUoiU0kOMEoTYGBjYEoJDSZnSyFhUksSU1CTDIsMCwsSU1CTDMsMCws 74D015FE-235C-4D00-81BC-1698D75D7A00 repeat #eff3f7 left 0px ANIM3D00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 0 ANIM3D00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 1 6486DDE0-3EFD-11D4-BA3D-0050DAC68030 0 6486DDE0-3EFD-11D4-BA3D-0050DAC68030 1 C3C52140-4147-11D4-BA3D-0050DAC68030 0 X-ASN,X-ASH,X-AN,X-AP,X-AD ; Firstly, Terry, many thanks for your email to the list regarding the Villa.? I am looking forward to hearing from the current owners.? As you can see from Charles Le Breton's reply, we are greatly interested in anything relating to the Le Breton and Newton families from Saint Helena. ? I see that Heather van Lendt is also trying to locate her ancestors from the island.? Heather, I looked up the IGI, and also their family history catalogue on-line and was able to obtain a microfilm for some bmd's, also one for Wills, which have been a great help. ? Once you have obtained the details, you can easily order one of these films from your nearest LDS family history centre. ? Good luck with your research, Deirdre Blunt The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070522/41bd8b8b/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Tue May 22 07:20:33 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Tue May 22 07:21:06 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton and research In-Reply-To: <01da01c79c2f$5c3b13c0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> References: <434737.34389.qm@web35415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <01da01c79c2f$5c3b13c0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Message-ID: <8C96A480E84BA39-BA4-8F6@webmail-stg-d09.sysops.aol.com> Why? -----Original Message----- From: Charles Le Breton To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 11:09 pm Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton and research LDS is Latter Day Saints or Mormon Church. ? BDM is births deaths and marriages. ? Regards ? Chas Le Breton ----- Original Message ----- From: Heather Van Lendt To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton and research Hi Deidre, ? Thanks so much for that information.? I am new at this so am not sure what "lds and bmd" stand for.? I assume that IGI stands for International Genealogical Index" ? Heather Eugene & Deirdre wrote: BA285063-5BCE-11D4-AF8D-0050DAC67E11 2.0 Letter Letter\rice_fields.imf Elegant Paper Stationery Rice Fields SU1CTDEsNDEsgUmBSTAkkcGNgZmVTY0wNCxNhYUoiU0kOMEoTYGBjYEoJDSZnSyFhUksSU1CTDIsMCwsSU1CTDMsMCws 74D015FE-235C-4D00-81BC-1698D75D7A00 repeat #eff3f7 left 0px ANIM3D00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 0 ANIM3D00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 1 6486DDE0-3EFD-11D4-BA3D-0050DAC68030 0 6486DDE0-3EFD-11D4-BA3D-0050DAC68030 1 C3C52140-4147-11D4-BA3D-0050DAC68030 0 X-ASN,X-ASH,X-AN,X-AP,X-AD ; Firstly, Terry, many thanks for your email to the list regarding the Villa.? I am looking forward to hearing from the current owners.? As you can see from Charles Le Breton's reply, we are greatly interested in anything relating to the Le Breton and Newton families from Saint Helena. ? I see that Heather van Lendt is also trying to locate her ancestors from the island.? Heather, I looked up the IGI, and also their family history catalogue on-line and was able to obtain a microfilm for some bmd's, also one for Wills, which have been a great help. ? Once you have obtained the details, you can easily order one of these films from your nearest LDS family history centre. ? Good luck with your research, Deirdre Blunt The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1000 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070522/a7eb847a/attachment.htm From smarshall at absamail.co.za Tue May 22 10:02:03 2007 From: smarshall at absamail.co.za (sharon marshall) Date: Tue May 22 10:02:41 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: SA genealogy Message-ID: <00d201c79c47$7c89df90$0d00000a@Sharon> ----- Original Message ----- From: sharon marshall To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 1:35 PM Subject: SA genealogy Am not sure if everyone's aware of it, but there are a few helpful transcriptions for people trying to trace St Helena ancestors who emigrated to South Africa on www.genealogyworld.net Kind regards Sharon Marshall Cape Town -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070522/125e5217/attachment.htm From h_vanlendt at yahoo.com Tue May 22 10:18:07 2007 From: h_vanlendt at yahoo.com (Heather Van Lendt) Date: Tue May 22 10:18:37 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: SA genealogy In-Reply-To: <00d201c79c47$7c89df90$0d00000a@Sharon> Message-ID: <775375.88030.qm@web35412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sharon, Thank you so much for that website address. It is going to be very helpful. Heather sharon marshall wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: sharon marshall To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 1:35 PM Subject: SA genealogy Am not sure if everyone's aware of it, but there are a few helpful transcriptions for people trying to trace St Helena ancestors who emigrated to South Africa on www.genealogyworld.net Kind regards Sharon Marshall Cape Town The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48518/*http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/;_ylc=X3oDMTE3NWsyMDd2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDY2FyLWZpbmRlcg-- hot CTA = Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070522/9a1fec3b/attachment.htm From charlesx at xtra.co.nz Tue May 22 11:43:44 2007 From: charlesx at xtra.co.nz (Charles Le Breton) Date: Tue May 22 11:44:44 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: SA genealogy References: <00d201c79c47$7c89df90$0d00000a@Sharon> Message-ID: <034f01c79c55$b0949830$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Ta Sharon. May be something new here although quick look revealed nought. Chas Le Breton. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1000 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070522/510566ae/attachment.htm From joocee at btopenworld.com Tue May 22 13:06:44 2007 From: joocee at btopenworld.com (JULIET COTTAM) Date: Tue May 22 13:07:22 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] FAO.Terry Herbert Message-ID: <002a01c79c61$503faea0$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> Many thanks for your Travelogue about your recent visit to St.H. I will bear in mind the possible chill factor at Capetown and find room for a fleece in my bag. Our Friendly Bank Manager has warned me about the likelihood of puddles on the island in August - won't take the Wellies, too bulky, but one can always paddle !! I am so pleased the RMS. chefs are still excelling themselves with their soups - the butternut variety was the one that I particularly liked. Here is another Consulate Hotel enthusiast - as you say, not total luxury but any hostelery that provides tea making facilities gets a couple of Brownie points- can't do wothout a cuppa in the middle of the night. The family make one so welcome, and nothing is too much trouble. I was the lucky one on the previous trip- I got the en suite with the BATH - how's that for luxury, expecially after a fortnight of showers on the RMS. It was bliss to wallow!! Can't wait for the next visit- Juliet. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070522/077d3bdc/attachment.htm From tmboucherot at bpmsl.com Tue May 22 23:50:45 2007 From: tmboucherot at bpmsl.com (Tessa Boucherot) Date: Tue May 22 23:51:19 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Times Online Article Re: St. Helena Message-ID: <7A91A47B3B43D34D985936BD7C8ED9217860BD@bpmcexch2.wcbcorps.com> http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/news/article18 24518.ece A brief article regarding St. Helena.... Tessa Boucherot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070522/5ecb9a43/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Wed May 23 00:15:00 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Wed May 23 00:15:37 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Times Online Article Re: St. Helena In-Reply-To: <7A91A47B3B43D34D985936BD7C8ED9217860BD@bpmcexch2.wcbcorps.com> References: <7A91A47B3B43D34D985936BD7C8ED9217860BD@bpmcexch2.wcbcorps.com> Message-ID: <8C96AD5C5E51C1A-1AE0-112E@MBLK-M27.sysops.aol.com> Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Tessa Boucherot To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Tue, 22 May 2007 3:50 pm Subject: [STHELENA] Times Online Article Re: St. Helena http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/news/article1824518.ece ? A brief article regarding St. Helena?. ? Tessa Boucherot ? The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070522/45779804/attachment.htm From charlesx at xtra.co.nz Wed May 23 22:32:24 2007 From: charlesx at xtra.co.nz (Charles Le Breton) Date: Wed May 23 22:33:36 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton References: <20070520135222.ACF3023A8@ctb-mesg9.saix.net> Message-ID: <004a01c79d79$79a48fe0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Hi Terry, List has all of a sudden gone quiet so just testing. Have checked my firewall etc. to ensure OK. Can anybody on list confirm. It was OK yesterday. Perhaps list is just quiet. Regards Chas Le Breton ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Herbert To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 1:52 AM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Hi Deirdre, I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a boulder that bounded down the hillside - a common problem in St Helena after the rainy season loosens some of the rocks. All the best Terry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Eugene & Deirdre Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island. Would it be possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. Do hope this is not too much trouble. Deirdre Blunt From Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1016 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070524/e84d002e/attachment.htm From cplowe at mchsi.com Wed May 23 23:02:52 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (cplowe@mchsi.com) Date: Wed May 23 23:03:23 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Message-ID: <052320072102.25849.4654ABFC0008A22F000064F9219791336303010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com> We are all just quiet ---------------------- Original Message: --------------------- From: "Charles Le Breton" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 20:33:58 +0000 > Hi Terry, > > List has all of a sudden gone quiet so just testing. Have checked my firewall > etc. to ensure OK. > > Can anybody on list confirm. It was OK yesterday. Perhaps list is just quiet. > > Regards > > Chas Le Breton > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Terry Herbert > To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 1:52 AM > Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > Hi Deirdre, > > I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. > They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They > may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail > address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. > > It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a > boulder that bounded down the hillside - a common problem in St Helena after the > rainy season loosens some of the rocks. > > All the best > > > > Terry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of > Eugene & Deirdre > Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM > To: list@sthelena.se > Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > > During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there > is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island. Would it be possible for some kind > person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton > family lived there? > > > > I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth > Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their > home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. > > > > Do hope this is not too much trouble. > > > > Deirdre Blunt > > From Australia > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. > It has removed 1016 spam emails to date. > Paying users do not have this message in their emails. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From prporter1 at aim.com Wed May 23 23:26:03 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Wed May 23 23:26:37 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <004a01c79d79$79a48fe0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> References: <20070520135222.ACF3023A8@ctb-mesg9.saix.net> <004a01c79d79$79a48fe0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Message-ID: <8C96B981A04181D-170-2600@FWM-D10.sysops.aol.com> yes -----Original Message----- From: Charles Le Breton To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Wed, 23 May 2007 2:32 pm Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 4.0 ; Hi Terry, ? List has all of a sudden gone quiet so just testing. Have checked my firewall etc. to ensure OK. ? Can anybody on list confirm. It was OK yesterday. Perhaps list is just quiet. ? Regards ? Chas Le Breton ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Herbert To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 1:52 AM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Hi Deirdre, I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a boulder that bounded down the hillside ? a common problem in St Helena after the rainy season loosens some of the rocks. All the best ? Terry?? From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Eugene & Deirdre Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton ? During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island.? Would it be possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? ? I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. ? Do hope this is not too much trouble. ? Deirdre Blunt >From Australia ? ? ? ? The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1016 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070523/0574b8cd/attachment.htm From rbauer6115 at t-online.de Thu May 24 00:14:45 2007 From: rbauer6115 at t-online.de (Reino Bauer) Date: Thu May 24 00:15:15 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <004a01c79d79$79a48fe0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> References: <20070520135222.ACF3023A8@ctb-mesg9.saix.net> <004a01c79d79$79a48fe0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Message-ID: <4654BCD5.90603@bigfoot.com> Charles everything seems to be OK. Just one of your last postings arrived 4 times. Not a problem as such. Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) Charles Le Breton wrote: > Hi Terry, > > List has all of a sudden gone quiet so just testing. Have checked my > firewall etc. to ensure OK. > > Can anybody on list confirm. It was OK yesterday. Perhaps list is just > quiet. > > Regards > > Chas Le Breton > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Terry Herbert > *To:* 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South > Atlantic(Eng)' > *Sent:* Monday, May 21, 2007 1:52 AM > *Subject:* RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > Hi Deirdre, > > I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last > Saturday. They are from South Africa, having bought the house > about seven years ago. They may know something of the history and > I will drop them a line giving your e-mail address and asking them > if they can send you any pictures. > > It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged > recently by a boulder that bounded down the hillside ? a common > problem in St Helena after the rainy season loosens some of the rocks. > > All the best > > > > Terry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] > *On Behalf Of *Eugene & Deirdre > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM > *To:* list@sthelena.se > *Subject:* [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > > During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that > there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island. Would it be > possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and > would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? > > > > I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married > Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa > may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their > descendants. > > > > Do hope this is not too much trouble. > > > > Deirdre Blunt > > From Australia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. > It has removed 1016 spam emails to date. > Paying users do not have this message in their emails. > Try SPAMfighter for free now! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070524/e75bd082/attachment.htm From charlesx at xtra.co.nz Thu May 24 00:43:06 2007 From: charlesx at xtra.co.nz (Charles Le Breton) Date: Thu May 24 00:44:18 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton References: <8C969BAD2E060CD-14C-2AD@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00bb01c79d8b$bb776ed0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> TA for all who responded. All appears fine. No idea why one party received my offering four times. I only got back once. Regards Chas Le Breton ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton No. -----Original Message----- From: Heather Van Lendt To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Sun, 20 May 2007 11:06 pm Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me find some information on my grandmother (surname is Van Lendt). Is there a Department of Births who I can contact. Unfortunately, I cannot gain access to a phone book from Australia. Much appreciated Heather Van lendt Terry Herbert wrote: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 4.0 ; Hi Deirdre, I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a boulder that bounded down the hillside ? a common problem in St Helena after the rainy season loosens some of the rocks. All the best Terry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Eugene & Deirdre Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island. Would it be possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. Do hope this is not too much trouble. Deirdre Blunt From Australia The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1016 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070524/5c874311/attachment.htm From takkies at mighty.co.za Thu May 24 11:22:52 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Thu May 24 11:23:24 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton References: <20070520135222.ACF3023A8@ctb-mesg9.saix.net> <004a01c79d79$79a48fe0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Message-ID: <007201c79de5$1c487250$0200a8c0@dad> Shhh... it's cold enough in Durban to freeze the balls off a brass monkey... so I've decided to hibernate for a while... :-) Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Le Breton To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Hi Terry, List has all of a sudden gone quiet so just testing. Have checked my firewall etc. to ensure OK. Can anybody on list confirm. It was OK yesterday. Perhaps list is just quiet. Regards Chas Le Breton ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Herbert To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 1:52 AM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Hi Deirdre, I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a boulder that bounded down the hillside - a common problem in St Helena after the rainy season loosens some of the rocks. All the best Terry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Eugene & Deirdre Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island. Would it be possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. Do hope this is not too much trouble. Deirdre Blunt From Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1016 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.7/816 - Release Date: 2007/05/23 03:59 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070524/1849c1a4/attachment.htm From Nola.Crowie at corobrik.co.za Thu May 24 11:50:25 2007 From: Nola.Crowie at corobrik.co.za (Nola Crowie) Date: Thu May 24 11:51:45 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <004a01c79d79$79a48fe0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> References: <20070520135222.ACF3023A8@ctb-mesg9.saix.net> <004a01c79d79$79a48fe0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Message-ID: <46557BF7.E1AB.00C6.0@corobrik.co.za> This e-mail and all contents are subject to the following disclaimer: http://www.corobrik.com/emaildisclaimer.htm FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-0000000000004.0;Hi Chris Yes, it has been a bit freezing here in Durbs otherwise all is well. Regards Nola With kind regards. Nola Crowie Export Co-Ordinator (Office of Peter Kidger) Tel: +27 (31) 560 3435 Fax: +27 (31) 560 3411 nola.crowie@corobrik.co.za >>> On 23/05/2007 at 10:32 PM, in message <004a01c79d79$79a48fe0$0701a8c0@oem790bc>, "Charles Le Breton" wrote: Hi Terry, List has all of a sudden gone quiet so just testing. Have checked my firewall etc. to ensure OK. Can anybody on list confirm. It was OK yesterday. Perhaps list is just quiet. Regards Chas Le Breton ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Herbert ( mailto:ghenesh_49@optusnet.com.au ) To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' ( mailto:list@sthelena.se ) Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 1:52 AM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Hi Deirdre, I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a boulder that bounded down the hillside ? a common problem in St Helena after the rainy season loosens some of the rocks. All the best Terry From:list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Eugene & Deirdre Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island. Would it be possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. Do hope this is not too much trouble. Deirdre Blunt >From Australia The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1016 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter ( http://www.spamfighter.com/len ) for free now! Corobrik (Pty) Ltd Reg No 1962/003262/07 P O Box 201367 Durban North KZN 4016 Tel +27 31 5603111 Fax +27 31 5651532 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070524/92ddf47f/attachment-0001.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Thu May 24 14:27:57 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Thu May 24 14:28:31 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <007201c79de5$1c487250$0200a8c0@dad> References: <20070520135222.ACF3023A8@ctb-mesg9.saix.net> <004a01c79d79$79a48fe0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> <007201c79de5$1c487250$0200a8c0@dad> Message-ID: <8C96C161842E8CF-146C-34B@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> brass? -----Original Message----- From: Rob G To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Thu, 24 May 2007 3:22 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 4.0 ; Shhh... it's cold enough in Durban to freeze the balls off a brass monkey... so I've decided to hibernate for a while... :-) ? Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Le Breton To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Hi Terry, ? List has all of a sudden gone quiet so just testing. Have checked my firewall etc. to ensure OK. ? Can anybody on list confirm. It was OK yesterday. Perhaps list is just quiet. ? Regards ? Chas Le Breton ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Herbert To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 1:52 AM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Hi Deirdre, I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a boulder that bounded down the hillside ? a common problem in St Helena after the rainy season loosens some of the rocks. All the best ? Terry?? From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Eugene & Deirdre Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton ? During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island.? Would it be possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? ? I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. ? Do hope this is not too much trouble. ? Deirdre Blunt >From Australia ? ? ? ? The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1016 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.7/816 - Release Date: 2007/05/23 03:59 PM The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070524/d11c5043/attachment.htm From cplowe at mchsi.com Thu May 24 15:37:47 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (cplowe@mchsi.com) Date: Thu May 24 15:38:21 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Message-ID: <052420071337.11844.4655952B000AD77100002E44219791332903010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com> Brass or not, just how cold does it get and is there snow? Sorry to be so ill informed but my image of South Africa is that it is like Barbados which it cannot be since it is so far south. ---------------------- Original Message: --------------------- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:28:46 +0000 > brass? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob G > To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) > > Sent: Thu, 24 May 2007 3:22 am > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 4.0 ; > Shhh... it's cold enough in Durban to freeze the balls off a brass monkey... so > I've decided to hibernate for a while... :-) > >   > > Rob G > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Charles Le Breton > > To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) > > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:32 PM > > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > > > Hi Terry, > >   > > List has all of a sudden gone quiet so just testing. Have checked my firewall > etc. to ensure OK. > >   > > Can anybody on list confirm. It was OK yesterday. Perhaps list is just quiet. > >   > > Regards > >   > > Chas Le Breton > >   > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Terry Herbert > > To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' > > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 1:52 AM > > Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > > > > Hi Deirdre, > > I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. > They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They > may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail > address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. > > It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a boulder > that bounded down the hillside – a common problem in St Helena after the rainy > season loosens some of the rocks. > > > All the best > >   > > Terry   > > > > > > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of > Eugene & Deirdre > Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM > To: list@sthelena.se > Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > >   > > > > > > > During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a > Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island.  Would it be possible for some kind > person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton > family lived there? > > > >   > > > > I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton > on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if > it was the home of one of their descendants. > > > >   > > > > Do hope this is not too much trouble. > > > >   > > > > Deirdre Blunt > > > > >From Australia > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > >   > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. > It has removed 1016 spam emails to date. > Paying users do not have this message in their emails. > Try SPAMfighter for free now! > > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.7/816 - Release Date: 2007/05/23 03:59 > PM > > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > o unsubscribe please send a email to: > ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam > and email virus protection. > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From takkies at mighty.co.za Thu May 24 20:36:04 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Thu May 24 20:36:26 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton References: <052420071337.11844.4655952B000AD77100002E44219791332903010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <006e01c79e32$63915210$0200a8c0@dad> Nope, no snow... but temperatures dropped to 10 degrees up in the Kloof area today (20km from Durban) - the cold front arrived on Sunday without much warning so most Durbanites were found hustling for their balaclavas and coats. Snow fell on the Drakensburg - a mountain range about 140 k's inland - it seems winter has come early down here... so yes, I am feeling a bit brittle tonight. I generally enjoy crispy weather but what gets me is that "dull headache" that seems to come along with the icey winds. The weather is generally fresh and cool in winter... but that's the great thing about living in Durban - I suppose a little like Barbados with the sunny skies and humidity... although we do get a good dose of rain and thunderstorms now and then, but boy, when a cold-front sets in it can get flipping cold and very quickly! Then all this guy can do is get grumpy and hibernate until it's over. Hey, I've just remembered something - I know a gal called "Bunny Le Breton" living in Durban - she used to own a video duplicating company - perhaps I should try locating her for the sake of our research. Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > Brass or not, just how cold does it get and is there snow? Sorry to be so > ill > informed but my image of South Africa is that it is like Barbados which it > cannot be since it is so far south. > > > ---------------------- Original Message: --------------------- > From: prporter1@aim.com > To: list@sthelena.se > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:28:46 +0000 > >> brass? >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rob G >> To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) >> >> Sent: Thu, 24 May 2007 3:22 am >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton >> >> >> FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 4.0 ; >> Shhh... it's cold enough in Durban to freeze the balls off a brass >> monkey... so >> I've decided to hibernate for a while... :-) >> >> ? >> >> Rob G >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Charles Le Breton >> >> To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) >> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:32 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton >> >> >> >> >> Hi Terry, >> >> ? >> >> List has all of a sudden gone quiet so just testing. Have checked my >> firewall >> etc. to ensure OK. >> >> ? >> >> Can anybody on list confirm. It was OK yesterday. Perhaps list is just >> quiet. >> >> ? >> >> Regards >> >> ? >> >> Chas Le Breton >> >> ? >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Terry Herbert >> >> To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' >> >> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 1:52 AM >> >> Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi Deirdre, >> >> I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last >> Saturday. >> They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years >> ago. They >> may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your >> e-mail >> address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. >> >> It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a >> boulder >> that bounded down the hillside ??" a common problem in St Helena after >> the rainy >> season loosens some of the rocks. >> >> >> All the best >> >> ? >> >> Terry? ? >> >> >> >> >> >> From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On >> Behalf Of >> Eugene & Deirdre >> Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM >> To: list@sthelena.se >> Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is >> a >> Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island.? Would it be possible for some >> kind >> person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le >> Breton >> family lived there? >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth >> Newton >> on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their >> home, or if >> it was the home of one of their descendants. >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> Do hope this is not too much trouble. >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> Deirdre Blunt >> >> >> >> >From Australia >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. >> It has removed 1016 spam emails to date. >> Paying users do not have this message in their emails. >> Try SPAMfighter for free now! >> >> >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.7/816 - Release Date: 2007/05/23 >> 03:59 >> PM >> >> >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> o unsubscribe please send a email to: >> ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and >> industry-leading spam >> and email virus protection. >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.7/816 - Release Date: 2007/05/23 > 03:59 PM > > From charlesx at xtra.co.nz Thu May 24 22:32:45 2007 From: charlesx at xtra.co.nz (Charles Le Breton) Date: Thu May 24 22:33:54 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton References: <052420071337.11844.4655952B000AD77100002E44219791332903010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com> <006e01c79e32$63915210$0200a8c0@dad> Message-ID: <001d01c79e42$b056fef0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> If you are able that would be great (re Bunny Le Breton). Ta for suggestion. Regards Chazs Le Breton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob G" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > Nope, no snow... but temperatures dropped to 10 degrees up in the Kloof > area today (20km from Durban) - the cold front arrived on Sunday without > much warning so most Durbanites were found hustling for their balaclavas > and coats. Snow fell on the Drakensburg - a mountain range about 140 k's > inland - it seems winter has come early down here... so yes, I am feeling > a bit brittle tonight. I generally enjoy crispy weather but what gets me > is that "dull headache" that seems to come along with the icey winds. The > weather is generally fresh and cool in winter... but that's the great > thing about living in Durban - I suppose a little like Barbados with the > sunny skies and humidity... although we do get a good dose of rain and > thunderstorms now and then, but boy, when a cold-front sets in it can get > flipping cold and very quickly! Then all this guy can do is get grumpy and > hibernate until it's over. > > Hey, I've just remembered something - I know a gal called "Bunny Le > Breton" living in Durban - she used to own a video duplicating company - > perhaps I should try locating her for the sake of our research. > > Rob G > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" > > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:37 PM > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > >> Brass or not, just how cold does it get and is there snow? Sorry to be >> so ill >> informed but my image of South Africa is that it is like Barbados which >> it >> cannot be since it is so far south. >> >> >> ---------------------- Original Message: --------------------- >> From: prporter1@aim.com >> To: list@sthelena.se >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton >> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:28:46 +0000 >> >>> brass? >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rob G >>> To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) >>> >>> Sent: Thu, 24 May 2007 3:22 am >>> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton >>> >>> >>> FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 4.0 ; >>> Shhh... it's cold enough in Durban to freeze the balls off a brass >>> monkey... so >>> I've decided to hibernate for a while... :-) >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Rob G >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: Charles Le Breton >>> >>> To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:32 PM >>> >>> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Terry, >>> >>> ? >>> >>> List has all of a sudden gone quiet so just testing. Have checked my >>> firewall >>> etc. to ensure OK. >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Can anybody on list confirm. It was OK yesterday. Perhaps list is just >>> quiet. >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Chas Le Breton >>> >>> ? >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: Terry Herbert >>> >>> To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' >>> >>> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 1:52 AM >>> >>> Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Deirdre, >>> >>> I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last >>> Saturday. >>> They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years >>> ago. They >>> may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving >>> your e-mail >>> address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. >>> >>> It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a >>> boulder >>> that bounded down the hillside ??" a common problem in St Helena after >>> the rainy >>> season loosens some of the rocks. >>> >>> >>> All the best >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Terry? ? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On >>> Behalf Of >>> Eugene & Deirdre >>> Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM >>> To: list@sthelena.se >>> Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there >>> is a >>> Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island.? Would it be possible for some >>> kind >>> person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le >>> Breton >>> family lived there? >>> >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> >>> >>> I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth >>> Newton >>> on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their >>> home, or if >>> it was the home of one of their descendants. >>> >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> >>> >>> Do hope this is not too much trouble. >>> >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> >>> >>> Deirdre Blunt >>> >>> >>> >>> >From Australia >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The S:t Helena Mailing List >>> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >>> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >>> >>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. >>> It has removed 1016 spam emails to date. >>> Paying users do not have this message in their emails. >>> Try SPAMfighter for free now! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The S:t Helena Mailing List >>> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >>> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.7/816 - Release Date: >>> 2007/05/23 03:59 >>> PM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The S:t Helena Mailing List >>> o unsubscribe please send a email to: >>> ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________________________________________ >>> Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and >>> industry-leading spam >>> and email virus protection. >>> >>> The S:t Helena Mailing List >>> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.7/816 - Release Date: 2007/05/23 >> 03:59 PM >> >> > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1021 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len From flywellretreat at galileosa.co.za Thu May 24 23:20:05 2007 From: flywellretreat at galileosa.co.za (Cindy Mussell) Date: Thu May 24 23:22:55 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <007201c79de5$1c487250$0200a8c0@dad> Message-ID: <20070524212205.783F6BE8F4@poscpt0h01.cpt.saa.co.za> Cold in Durban??? Try snow in cape town!!! Definitely time to hibernate _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Rob G Sent: 24 May 2007 11:23 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Shhh... it's cold enough in Durban to freeze the balls off a brass monkey... so I've decided to hibernate for a while... :-) Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Le Breton To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Hi Terry, List has all of a sudden gone quiet so just testing. Have checked my firewall etc. to ensure OK. Can anybody on list confirm. It was OK yesterday. Perhaps list is just quiet. Regards Chas Le Breton ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Herbert To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 1:52 AM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Hi Deirdre, I had a drink with the current owners of Villa Le Breton only last Saturday. They are from South Africa, having bought the house about seven years ago. They may know something of the history and I will drop them a line giving your e-mail address and asking them if they can send you any pictures. It is a lovely spot although one of their cars was damaged recently by a boulder that bounded down the hillside - a common problem in St Helena after the rainy season loosens some of the rocks. All the best Terry _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Eugene & Deirdre Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 11:18 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton During research into my Le Breton family, I have discovered that there is a Villa Le Breton on Saint Helena Island. Would it be possible for some kind person to send me a picture of it, and would anyone know which of the Le Breton family lived there? I have traced the family back to a John Le Breton, who married Elizabeth Newton on Saint Helena in 1808, and wonder if the Villa may have been their home, or if it was the home of one of their descendants. Do hope this is not too much trouble. Deirdre Blunt >From Australia _____ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. _____ I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1016 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! _____ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.7/816 - Release Date: 2007/05/23 03:59 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070524/2946352f/attachment.htm From jvigor at earthlink.net Fri May 25 02:59:13 2007 From: jvigor at earthlink.net (John and June Vigor) Date: Fri May 25 02:58:49 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton References: <052420071337.11844.4655952B000AD77100002E44219791332903010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com><006e01c79e32$63915210$0200a8c0@dad> <001d01c79e42$b056fef0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Message-ID: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n> All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is in one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above the hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd probably think hard about selling. Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. That's 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. Sheesh, don't get me started. John Vigor From charlesx at xtra.co.nz Fri May 25 03:16:12 2007 From: charlesx at xtra.co.nz (Charles Le Breton) Date: Fri May 25 03:21:53 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton References: <052420071337.11844.4655952B000AD77100002E44219791332903010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com><006e01c79e32$63915210$0200a8c0@dad><001d01c79e42$b056fef0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n> Message-ID: <00db01c79e6a$48eb7160$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Thanks very much for the explanation of Villa Le Breton. Not sure it has any family connection but trying to find out and get photos. Have recently found another early 18thC property shown as that of Mr. Le Breton in St. Helena planning document and currently waiting on some feedback from Terry. Think it may be right in town and much bigger. If so recorded perhaps local council or authorities already have photos etc. Will have to wait and see. Regards Chas Le Breton New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and June Vigor" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I > were > living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right > next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we > were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of > fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le > Breton > was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. > > It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of > renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we > were > there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her > husband > had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy > northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would > spend > about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is > in > one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above > the > hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a > nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't > working > out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town > while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were > there, > though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd > probably think hard about selling. > > Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to > be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to > miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so > violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. > > He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the > British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and > undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. > > Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he > would > have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! > > Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. > That's > 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to > Alaska. > Sheesh, don't get me started. > > John Vigor > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1021 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len From prporter1 at aim.com Fri May 25 03:28:14 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Fri May 25 03:28:51 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n> References: <052420071337.11844.4655952B000AD77100002E44219791332903010CD2079C080C03BF0A9901049F0C@mchsi.com><006e01c79e32$63915210$0200a8c0@dad> <001d01c79e42$b056fef0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n> Message-ID: <8C96C83199C4DC6-2A4-2510@MBLK-M12.sysops.aol.com> I see. -----Original Message----- From: John and June Vigor To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Thu, 24 May 2007 6:59 pm Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were iving right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right ext door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we ere living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of ruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton as at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of enovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were here. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband ad bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy orthwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend bout five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is in ne of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above the ospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a ice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working ut exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town hile she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, hough. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd robably think hard about selling. Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to e removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to iss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so iolently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the ritish showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and ndoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would ave had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. That's 0 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. heesh, don't get me started. John Vigor The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070524/d8f4ae6c/attachment.htm From smarshall at absamail.co.za Thu May 24 17:21:44 2007 From: smarshall at absamail.co.za (sharon marshall) Date: Fri May 25 13:12:35 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban Message-ID: <005401c79e17$3d60a9d0$0d00000a@Sharon> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: ATT2270432.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 92044 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070524/4bf58ff4/ATT2270432-0001.jpg From joocee at btopenworld.com Fri May 25 13:36:07 2007 From: joocee at btopenworld.com (JULIET COTTAM) Date: Fri May 25 13:37:00 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban References: <005401c79e17$3d60a9d0$0d00000a@Sharon> Message-ID: <001e01c79ec0$f1b68a90$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> What did the experts say about climate change !? I hope the monkeys don't stay brassed up too long - could be painful! ! Juliet. ----- Original Message ----- From: sharon marshall To: St Helena Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 4:21 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban Don't know if these attachments will come through, but this is why brass monkeys' are losing their verve... Sharon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070525/05079121/attachment.htm From cplowe at mchsi.com Fri May 25 14:13:34 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD) Date: Fri May 25 14:13:22 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban References: <005401c79e17$3d60a9d0$0d00000a@Sharon> Message-ID: <001c01c79ec6$1df97770$6401a8c0@Pam> Oh my!!! What is the usual temperature for this time of year. I always think of traveling for the summer vacation but that would not be it!! I like sunshine! ----- Original Message ----- From: sharon marshall To: St Helena Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:21 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban Don't know if these attachments will come through, but this is why brass monkeys' are losing their verve... Sharon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070525/99d52455/attachment.htm From takkies at mighty.co.za Fri May 25 14:14:57 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Fri May 25 14:15:40 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban References: <005401c79e17$3d60a9d0$0d00000a@Sharon> Message-ID: <014401c79ec6$563d7550$0200a8c0@dad> Yip, the pics came through Sharon. I recieved the same batch from a buddy of mine this morning but I can't identify the exact location - it definitely doesn't look like Durban since we don't have any pillars of that design and the skyline isn't anything I recognise - the design of the pillars look a bit American-colonial in my opinion. Also the large concrete dolosse aren't the same shape to the one's we normally use in S.A. (to make up piers to combat breakwater and fend against tidal waves). Maybe I'm wrong - it may even be Port Elizabeth further to the south - can anyone confirm this? Perhaps we have an avid birder who can identify the gulls and turns in some of the pics. In any case, the pics certainly reflect how cold it's been here these last few days - I believe S.A. also broke 5 new low temperature records around the country for the first time too! Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: sharon marshall To: St Helena Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban Don't know if these attachments will come through, but this is why brass monkeys' are losing their verve... Sharon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/817 - Release Date: 2007/05/24 04:01 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070525/53835eb1/attachment.htm From rbauer6115 at t-online.de Fri May 25 18:45:46 2007 From: rbauer6115 at t-online.de (Reino Bauer) Date: Fri May 25 18:46:17 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban In-Reply-To: <005401c79e17$3d60a9d0$0d00000a@Sharon> References: <005401c79e17$3d60a9d0$0d00000a@Sharon> Message-ID: <465712BA.2000402@bigfoot.com> Thank you Sharon, these are pictures well shot. There was a previous mail without the pics, now they are perfect. Makes it easier to choose the time of the year for going to SA. Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070525/78b3db8d/attachment.htm From jvigor at earthlink.net Fri May 25 18:47:25 2007 From: jvigor at earthlink.net (John and June Vigor) Date: Fri May 25 18:47:05 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban References: <005401c79e17$3d60a9d0$0d00000a@Sharon> Message-ID: <003c01c79eec$615ffea0$ce06f304@fmk4n> Sharon, if that's really ice, and not the usual algae-derived foam that one sees so frequently on the South African coast, then it's not Durban. The Mozambique current is one of the warmest in the world and never gets anywhere near freezing on the south-east coast. John Vigor ----- Original Message ----- From: sharon marshall To: St Helena Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 8:21 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban Don't know if these attachments will come through, but this is why brass monkeys' are losing their verve... Sharon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070525/f4adddc1/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Fri May 25 18:58:10 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Fri May 25 18:58:49 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban In-Reply-To: <465712BA.2000402@bigfoot.com> References: <005401c79e17$3d60a9d0$0d00000a@Sharon> <465712BA.2000402@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <8C96D05023ED15F-15E8-1077@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: Reino Bauer To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:45 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban Thank you Sharon, these are pictures well shot. There was a previous mail without the pics, now they are perfect. Makes it easier to choose the time of the year for going to SA. Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) has notified the sender that this message has been received. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070525/6560eefa/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Fri May 25 18:58:29 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Fri May 25 19:05:05 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban In-Reply-To: <003c01c79eec$615ffea0$ce06f304@fmk4n> References: <005401c79e17$3d60a9d0$0d00000a@Sharon> <003c01c79eec$615ffea0$ce06f304@fmk4n> Message-ID: <8C96D050D7A2A11-15E8-1079@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> True. -----Original Message----- From: John and June Vigor To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:47 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 ; Sharon, if that's really ice, and not the usual algae-derived foam that one sees so frequently on the South African coast, then it's not Durban.?The Mozambique current is one of the warmest in the world and never gets anywhere near freezing on the south-east coast. ? John Vigor? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: sharon marshall To: St Helena Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 8:21 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban ? Don't know if these attachments will come through, but this is why brass monkeys' are losing their verve... Sharon The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070525/5ea3a242/attachment.htm From smarshall at absamail.co.za Fri May 25 21:08:12 2007 From: smarshall at absamail.co.za (sharon marshall) Date: Fri May 25 21:08:48 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban References: <005401c79e17$3d60a9d0$0d00000a@Sharon><003c01c79eec$615ffea0$ce06f304@fmk4n> <8C96D050D7A2A11-15E8-1079@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004501c79f00$0b1a2e30$0d00000a@Sharon> ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban True. -----Original Message----- From: John and June Vigor To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:47 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 ; Sharon, if that's really ice, and not the usual algae-derived foam that one sees so frequently on the South African coast, then it's not Durban. The Mozambique current is one of the warmest in the world and never gets anywhere near freezing on the south-east coast. John Vigor ----- Original Message ----- From: sharon marshall To: St Helena Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 8:21 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban Don't know if these attachments will come through, but this is why brass monkeys' are losing their verve... Sharon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070525/25d0025a/attachment.htm From smarshall at absamail.co.za Fri May 25 21:23:48 2007 From: smarshall at absamail.co.za (sharon marshall) Date: Fri May 25 21:24:24 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban References: <005401c79e17$3d60a9d0$0d00000a@Sharon><003c01c79eec$615ffea0$ce06f304@fmk4n> <8C96D050D7A2A11-15E8-1079@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <005901c79f02$38df2e90$0d00000a@Sharon> Ja, on tenth look, I regretted sending as I'm sure it's a hoax - gullibility one of my failings, but given the timing, that the sea is apparently creeping up in Durbs and that weird things are happening to the planet, it really did have me going... Off to a permaculture course in freezing Free State next week, so am sure I'll soon know what cold is really about - and maybe even come back with some earthy solutions or learn to hibernate when appropriate... Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban True. -----Original Message----- From: John and June Vigor To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:47 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 ; Sharon, if that's really ice, and not the usual algae-derived foam that one sees so frequently on the South African coast, then it's not Durban. The Mozambique current is one of the warmest in the world and never gets anywhere near freezing on the south-east coast. John Vigor ----- Original Message ----- From: sharon marshall To: St Helena Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 8:21 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban Don't know if these attachments will come through, but this is why brass monkeys' are losing their verve... Sharon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070525/359ffed7/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Fri May 25 22:12:19 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Fri May 25 22:12:55 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban In-Reply-To: <005901c79f02$38df2e90$0d00000a@Sharon> References: <005401c79e17$3d60a9d0$0d00000a@Sharon><003c01c79eec$615ffea0$ce06f304@fmk4n> <8C96D050D7A2A11-15E8-1079@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> <005901c79f02$38df2e90$0d00000a@Sharon> Message-ID: <8C96D20218D6B0A-14AC-186E@mblk-d51.sysops.aol.com> Probably so. -----Original Message----- From: sharon marshall To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Fri, 25 May 2007 1:23 pm Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban Ja, on tenth look, I regretted sending as I'm sure it's a hoax - gullibility one of my failings, but given the timing, that the sea is apparently creeping up in Durbs and that weird things are happening to the planet, it really did have me going... Off to a permaculture course in freezing Free State next week, so am sure I'll soon know what cold is really about - and maybe even come back with some earthy solutions or learn to hibernate when appropriate... ? Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban True. -----Original Message----- From: John and June Vigor To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:47 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 ; Sharon, if that's really ice, and not the usual algae-derived foam that one sees so frequently on the South African coast, then it's not Durban.?The Mozambique current is one of the warmest in the world and never gets anywhere near freezing on the south-east coast. ? John Vigor? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: sharon marshall To: St Helena Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 8:21 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban ? Don't know if these attachments will come through, but this is why brass monkeys' are losing their verve... Sharon The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070525/c8ef6bd0/attachment.htm From flywellretreat at galileosa.co.za Sat May 26 12:19:06 2007 From: flywellretreat at galileosa.co.za (Cindy Mussell) Date: Sat May 26 12:22:00 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban In-Reply-To: <005901c79f02$38df2e90$0d00000a@Sharon> Message-ID: <20070526102108.4B081BE8CF@poscpt0h01.cpt.saa.co.za> lol, dont feel bad, we had ice in the mornings here, so it was quite believable for a time..... cape town down to 5deg a few nights ago, made me think of moving to durban _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of sharon marshall Sent: 25 May 2007 21:24 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban Ja, on tenth look, I regretted sending as I'm sure it's a hoax - gullibility one of my failings, but given the timing, that the sea is apparently creeping up in Durbs and that weird things are happening to the planet, it really did have me going... Off to a permaculture course in freezing Free State next week, so am sure I'll soon know what cold is really about - and maybe even come back with some earthy solutions or learn to hibernate when appropriate... Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban True. -----Original Message----- From: John and June Vigor To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:47 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 ; Sharon, if that's really ice, and not the usual algae-derived foam that one sees so frequently on the South African coast, then it's not Durban. The Mozambique current is one of the warmest in the world and never gets anywhere near freezing on the south-east coast. John Vigor ----- Original Message ----- From: sharon marshall To: St Helena Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 8:21 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban Don't know if these attachments will come through, but this is why brass monkeys' are losing their verve... Sharon _____ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. _____ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. _____ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070526/8368fb5b/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Sat May 26 15:01:25 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Sat May 26 15:02:06 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban In-Reply-To: <20070526102108.4B081BE8CF@poscpt0h01.cpt.saa.co.za> Message-ID: <8C96DAD1A320E14-14CC-29DB@FWM-M45.sysops.aol.com> . -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Mussell To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Sat, 26 May 2007 4:19 am Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban lol, dont feel bad, we had ice in the mornings here, so it was quite believable for a time..... ? cape town down to 5deg a few nights ago, made me think of moving to durban ? From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of sharon marshall Sent: 25 May 2007 21:24 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban Ja, on tenth look, I regretted sending as I'm sure it's a hoax - gullibility one of my failings, but given the timing, that the sea is apparently creeping up in Durbs and that weird things are happening to the planet, it really did have me going... Off to a permaculture course in freezing Free State next week, so am sure I'll soon know what cold is really about - and maybe even come back with some earthy solutions or learn to hibernate when appropriate... ? Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban True. -----Original Message----- From: John and June Vigor To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:47 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 ; Sharon, if that's really ice, and not the usual algae-derived foam that one sees so frequently on the South African coast, then it's not Durban.?The Mozambique current is one of the warmest in the world and never gets anywhere near freezing on the south-east coast. ? John Vigor? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: sharon marshall To: St Helena Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 8:21 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban ? Don't know if these attachments will come through, but this is why brass monkeys' are losing their verve... Sharon The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070526/8eba0674/attachment.htm From deird at optusnet.com.au Sun May 27 00:42:08 2007 From: deird at optusnet.com.au (Eugene & Deirdre) Date: Sun May 27 00:42:43 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Message-ID: <4658B7C0.000003.01224@DEIRD> Dear John, Thank you so much for your very descriptive email concerning the Villa Le Breton. You have made it come alive for us. Maybe it was the summer home for a Le Breton family a long time ago. Do you know if Cambrian House dates back to about the same era? The first of the family to arrive on Saint Helena was a John Le Breton, who was a master mariner. He and his wife, Elizabeth Newton, who were married there in 1808, had at least 4 children. We know that Elizabeth died on Saint Helena in 1875, aged 83 years, but have not found the death of her husband. Reading other emails on the list, there have been a number of references to the cold weather and snow in South Africa recently. I thought I would mention that the mountains near me in Victoria, Australia have received their first snowfall of the season last weekend - 10-16 centimetres. All the Best to List Members, Deirdre Blunt >>>>>>>> Message: 6 Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:59:13 -0700 From: "John and June Vigor" Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic\(Eng\)" Message-ID: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is in one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above the hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd probably think hard about selling. Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 100C in Kloof. Oh, wow. That's 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. Sheesh, don't get me started. John Vigor> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070527/74eb837f/attachment.htm From jvigor at earthlink.net Sun May 27 01:14:38 2007 From: jvigor at earthlink.net (John and June Vigor) Date: Sun May 27 01:14:50 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton References: <4658B7C0.000003.01224@DEIRD> Message-ID: <001201c79feb$b5e58f80$c200f304@fmk4n> Hi Deirdre: Cambrian House was built in its present form in 1820, but I'm sorry to say I don't know when Villa le Breton was built. Cambrian House is now divided into three lovely apartments, and we rented the middle one, known as the Garden Flat. I can thoroughly recommend it to any long-term visitors who want to cater for themselves. The whole building belongs to the Thorpe family who are, I believe, the largest private landowners on St. Helena. Best wishes, John Vigor Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Dear John, Thank you so much for your very descriptive email concerning the Villa Le Breton. You have made it come alive for us. Maybe it was the summer home for a Le Breton family a long time ago. Do you know if Cambrian House dates back to about the same era? The first of the family to arrive on Saint Helena was a John Le Breton, who was a master mariner. He and his wife, Elizabeth Newton, who were married there in 1808, had at least 4 children. We know that Elizabeth died on Saint Helena in 1875, aged 83 years, but have not found the death of her husband. Reading other emails on the list, there have been a number of references to the cold weather and snow in South Africa recently. I thought I would mention that the mountains near me in Victoria, Australia have received their first snowfall of the season last weekend - 10-16 centimetres. All the Best to List Members, Deirdre Blunt >>>>>>>> Message: 6 Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:59:13 -0700 From: "John and June Vigor" Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic\(Eng\)" Message-ID: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is in one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above the hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd probably think hard about selling. Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. That's 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. Sheesh, don't get me started. John Vigor> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070526/39dc5216/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Sun May 27 01:37:38 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Sun May 27 01:38:12 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <001201c79feb$b5e58f80$c200f304@fmk4n> References: <4658B7C0.000003.01224@DEIRD> <001201c79feb$b5e58f80$c200f304@fmk4n> Message-ID: <8C96E05FACCA98C-1DEC-3A1C@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> Me, too. -----Original Message----- From: John and June Vigor To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Sat, 26 May 2007 5:14 pm Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 4.0 ; Hi Deirdre: ? Cambrian House was built in its present form in 1820, but I'm sorry to say I?don't know when Villa le Breton was built. Cambrian House is now divided into three lovely apartments, and we?rented the middle one, known as the Garden Flat.?I can thoroughly recommend it to any long-term visitors who want to cater for themselves.?The whole building belongs to the Thorpe family who are, I believe, the largest private landowners on St. Helena. ? Best wishes, ? John Vigor? ? ? ? Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Dear John, ? Thank you so much for your very descriptive email concerning the Villa Le Breton.? You have made it come alive for us.? Maybe it was the summer home for a Le Breton family a long time ago.? Do you know if Cambrian House dates back to about the same era?? The first of the family to arrive on Saint Helena was a John Le Breton, who was a master mariner.? He and his wife, Elizabeth Newton, who were married there in 1808, had at least 4 children.? We know that Elizabeth died on Saint Helena in 1875, aged 83 years, but have not found the death of her husband. ? Reading other emails on the list, there have been a number of references to the cold weather and snow in South Africa recently.? I thought I would mention that the mountains near me in Victoria, Australia have received their first snowfall of the season last weekend - 10-16 centimetres.? ? All the Best to List Members, Deirdre Blunt ? >>>>>>>> Message: 6 Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:59:13 -0700 From: "John and June Vigor" Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic\(Eng\)" ? Message-ID: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ? ?All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were living right next door to it at this time last year.??Well, perhaps right next door gives the wrong impression.??It was next door all right, but we were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. ? It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were there.??The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy northwesters that descend on Cape Town.??The idea was that they would spend about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is in one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above the hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working out exactly as they had wanted, and??her husband had to work in Cape Town while she was there alone for a time.??He did join her while we were there, though.??My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd probably think hard about selling. ? Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. ? He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. ? Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! ? Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. That's 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. Sheesh, don't get me started. ? John Vigor> The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070526/068f8729/attachment.htm From charlesx at xtra.co.nz Sun May 27 02:54:39 2007 From: charlesx at xtra.co.nz (Charles Le Breton) Date: Sun May 27 02:55:41 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton References: <4658B7C0.000003.01224@DEIRD> <001201c79feb$b5e58f80$c200f304@fmk4n> Message-ID: <008401c79ff9$9b1d24c0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Hi John, I assume you got my earlier email but have never seen reply. Deirdre and I are working on same line however so have seen some of the ones you have sent her as she has sent onto me. According to planning document I found Villa Le Breton was built in early 1800 so possibly about the same time as Cambrian. Just before Napolean died. My other interest however if from another Le Breton house I also found in same document which was built about 100 years before. Still trying to get info' on both. Appreciate the titbits you have been able to provide. Every little bit helps. Regards Chas Le Breton ----- Original Message ----- From: John and June Vigor To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Hi Deirdre: Cambrian House was built in its present form in 1820, but I'm sorry to say I don't know when Villa le Breton was built. Cambrian House is now divided into three lovely apartments, and we rented the middle one, known as the Garden Flat. I can thoroughly recommend it to any long-term visitors who want to cater for themselves. The whole building belongs to the Thorpe family who are, I believe, the largest private landowners on St. Helena. Best wishes, John Vigor Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton Dear John, Thank you so much for your very descriptive email concerning the Villa Le Breton. You have made it come alive for us. Maybe it was the summer home for a Le Breton family a long time ago. Do you know if Cambrian House dates back to about the same era? The first of the family to arrive on Saint Helena was a John Le Breton, who was a master mariner. He and his wife, Elizabeth Newton, who were married there in 1808, had at least 4 children. We know that Elizabeth died on Saint Helena in 1875, aged 83 years, but have not found the death of her husband. Reading other emails on the list, there have been a number of references to the cold weather and snow in South Africa recently. I thought I would mention that the mountains near me in Victoria, Australia have received their first snowfall of the season last weekend - 10-16 centimetres. All the Best to List Members, Deirdre Blunt >>>>>>>> Message: 6 Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:59:13 -0700 From: "John and June Vigor" Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic\(Eng\)" Message-ID: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is in one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above the hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd probably think hard about selling. Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. That's 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. Sheesh, don't get me started. John Vigor> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1033 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070527/172a7b9d/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Sun May 27 03:42:15 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Sun May 27 03:42:49 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <008401c79ff9$9b1d24c0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> References: <4658B7C0.000003.01224@DEIRD> <001201c79feb$b5e58f80$c200f304@fmk4n> <008401c79ff9$9b1d24c0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Message-ID: <8C96E17635D66EE-6C0-345C@WEBMAIL-DC09.sysops.aol.com> Hi Deirdre: ? Cambrian House was built in its present form in 1820, but I'm sorry to say I?don't know when Villa le Breton was built. Cambrian House is now divided into three lovely apartments, and we?rented the middle one, known as the Garden Flat.?I can thoroughly recommend it to any long-term visitors who want to cater for themselves.?The whole building belongs to the Thorpe family who are, I believe, the largest private landowners on St. Helena. ? ? Thank you so much for your very descriptive email concerning the Villa Le Breton.? You have made it come alive for us.? Maybe it was the summer home for a Le Breton family a long time ago.? Do you know if Cambrian House dates back to about the same era?? The first of the family to arrive on Saint Helena was a John Le Breton, who was a master mariner.? He and his wife, Elizabeth Newton, who were married there in 1808, had at least 4 children.? We know that Elizabeth died on Saint Helena in 1875, aged 83 years, but have not found the death of her husband. ? Reading other emails on the list, there have been a number of references to the cold weather and snow in South Africa recently.? I thought I would mention that the mountains near me in Victoria, Australia have received their first snowfall of the season last weekend - 10-16 centimetres.? Thank you so much for your very descriptive email concerning the Villa Le Breton.? You have made it come alive for us.? Maybe it was the summer home for a Le Breton family a long time ago.? Do you know if Cambrian House dates back to about the same era?? The first of the family to arrive on Saint Helena was a John Le Breton, who was a master mariner.? He and his wife, Elizabeth Newton, who were married there in 1808, had at least 4 children.? We know that Elizabeth died on Saint Helena in 1875, aged 83 years, but have not found the death of her husband. ? Reading other emails on the list, there have been a number of references to the cold weather and snow in South Africa recently.? I thought I would mention that the mountains near me in Victoria, Australia have received their first snowfall of the season last weekend - 10-16 centimetres.? ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070526/47da0291/attachment.htm From ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au Tue May 29 00:43:34 2007 From: ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au (Terry Herbert) Date: Tue May 29 00:44:10 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban In-Reply-To: <005401c79e17$3d60a9d0$0d00000a@Sharon> Message-ID: <200705282243.l4SMhYFo010953@mail17.syd.optusnet.com.au> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 140 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/0e7363d3/attachment.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 206 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/0e7363d3/attachment-0002.gif From prporter1 at aim.com Tue May 29 01:13:56 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Tue May 29 01:14:33 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban In-Reply-To: <200705282243.l4SMhYFo010953@mail17.syd.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <8C96F950043DA9B-13A0-65AE@mblk-d13.sysops.aol.com> What do you mean? -----Original Message----- From: Terry Herbert To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Mon, 28 May 2007 4:43 pm Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 ; That?s certainly NOT Durban. ? All the best ? Terry Herbert +61 3 9891 6883 ?+61 421 907 318 : terryherbert1942 ???????? DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, ????????? Australia ? ? From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of sharon marshall Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 1:22 AM To: St Helena Subject: [STHELENA] Fw: Frozen Sea In Durban ? ? Don't know if these attachments will come through, but this is why brass monkeys' are losing their verve... Sharon The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/related From charlesx at xtra.co.nz Tue May 29 01:14:54 2007 From: charlesx at xtra.co.nz (Charles Le Breton) Date: Tue May 29 01:16:08 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Film clip References: <46472FB0.3090309@t-online.de> <009b01c79608$970c02c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <017101c7a17e$008e3760$0701a8c0@oem790bc> I put following on list a little while back but have never had response. Perhaps you can help. "Deirdre and I are two of a group of three following up a Le Breton line. Captain John Le Breton who was on island early 19thC is our main interest in your neck of the woods. He married Elizabeth Newton and parts of his family stayed there for most of 19thC. See below extract I located in Vol. 2 Land Planning and Control Ordinance - Appendix 4 Listed Buildings. While I was originally looking for Villa Le Breton which is there also (second listed as below) on page 12 in particular is first entry. I do not know whether Villa Le Breton has any connection to family but Mr. Le Breton's house sounds very interesting. Perhaps they both have some connection. I have searched the internet for Villa Le Breton but only found interior shots. If you able to provide photos and background of both or alternatively put us onto somebody who could that would be terrific. Something else of interest to me more but could help anyway is the parcel number quoted for each. I work in a government department in New Zealand that administers title and survey information and other property related interests (overseas investment in land, rating valuations, surveys other than cadastral, Crown owned land including management, acquisition and disposal). For example what kind of system do you have in St. Helena. Is it like UK - a deeds type system. Ours is based on Torrens system although we still have remnants of old deeds system. Is it perhaps possible and at what cost to do an historical search of these properties. I thought as a banker you would have knowledge of this area. Also is your system computerised. We have over the last 10 years been progressively developing a fully computerised system including compulsory E-Lodgement of title transactions and surveys. Parcel No. Item Description Date Grade JT5/16 Mr Le Breton's house 2 storey 9 bays Early 18th C II 2 doors all windows (have not previously found this one) JT15/11 Villa Le Breton 2 storey 5 bay + 1 bay house Early 19th C II with added verandahs and back additions. Windows sashed Hoping you can help or point us in right direction." If I ask too much whatever you can provide would be very welcome. In hindsight comment towards end was directed at you but I was actually replying to Terry. I got a bit mixed up I think. Regards Chas Le Breton -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1043 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/bcd86542/attachment.htm From ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au Tue May 29 01:29:12 2007 From: ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au (Terry Herbert) Date: Tue May 29 01:29:54 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Villa Le Breton (Reprise) was..... Film clip In-Reply-To: <017101c7a17e$008e3760$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Message-ID: <200705282329.l4SNTCS6029785@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> Good Morning Charles, Deirdre and all, I haven't forgotten about my promise to mail the present owners of Villa Le Breton, but have been on the road, spending time in Cape Town and Kuala Lumpur on our way back from St Helena to Melbourne. I'll be dropping them a line later this week and hopefully they'll be able to add to your information base. All the best Terry Herbert DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, Australia _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Charles Le Breton Sent: Tuesday, 29 May 2007 9:15 AM To: john@burghhouse.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Film clip I put following on list a little while back but have never had response. Perhaps you can help. "Deirdre and I are two of a group of three following up a Le Breton line. Captain John Le Breton who was on island early 19thC is our main interest in your neck of the woods. He married Elizabeth Newton and parts of his family stayed there for most of 19thC. See below extract I located in Vol. 2 Land Planning and Control Ordinance - Appendix 4 Listed Buildings. While I was originally looking for Villa Le Breton which is there also (second listed as below) on page 12 in particular is first entry. I do not know whether Villa Le Breton has any connection to family but Mr. Le Breton's house sounds very interesting. Perhaps they both have some connection. I have searched the internet for Villa Le Breton but only found interior shots. If you able to provide photos and background of both or alternatively put us onto somebody who could that would be terrific. Something else of interest to me more but could help anyway is the parcel number quoted for each. I work in a government department in New Zealand that administers title and survey information and other property related interests (overseas investment in land, rating valuations, surveys other than cadastral, Crown owned land including management, acquisition and disposal). For example what kind of system do you have in St. Helena. Is it like UK - a deeds type system. Ours is based on Torrens system although we still have remnants of old deeds system. Is it perhaps possible and at what cost to do an historical search of these properties. I thought as a banker you would have knowledge of this area. Also is your system computerised. We have over the last 10 years been progressively developing a fully computerised system including compulsory E-Lodgement of title transactions and surveys. Parcel No. Item Description Date Grade JT5/16 Mr Le Breton's house 2 storey 9 bays Early 18th C II 2 doors all windows (have not previously found this one) JT15/11 Villa Le Breton 2 storey 5 bay + 1 bay house Early 19th C II with added verandahs and back additions. Windows sashed Hoping you can help or point us in right direction." If I ask too much whatever you can provide would be very welcome. In hindsight comment towards end was directed at you but I was actually replying to Terry. I got a bit mixed up I think. Regards Chas Le Breton _____ I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1043 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/180fdde4/attachment.htm From charlesx at xtra.co.nz Tue May 29 01:38:11 2007 From: charlesx at xtra.co.nz (Charles Le Breton) Date: Tue May 29 01:39:25 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Villa Le Breton (Reprise) was..... Film clip References: <200705282329.l4SNTCS6029785@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <01a501c7a181$413453f0$0701a8c0@oem790bc> Thanks Terry. That aside some questions may be more appropriate to John if he is able. All help much appreciated. Regards Chas Le Breton ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Herbert To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' ; john@burghhouse.com Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:29 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Villa Le Breton (Reprise) was..... Film clip Good Morning Charles, Deirdre and all, I haven't forgotten about my promise to mail the present owners of Villa Le Breton, but have been on the road, spending time in Cape Town and Kuala Lumpur on our way back from St Helena to Melbourne. I'll be dropping them a line later this week and hopefully they'll be able to add to your information base. All the best Terry Herbert DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Charles Le Breton Sent: Tuesday, 29 May 2007 9:15 AM To: john@burghhouse.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Film clip I put following on list a little while back but have never had response. Perhaps you can help. "Deirdre and I are two of a group of three following up a Le Breton line. Captain John Le Breton who was on island early 19thC is our main interest in your neck of the woods. He married Elizabeth Newton and parts of his family stayed there for most of 19thC. See below extract I located in Vol. 2 Land Planning and Control Ordinance - Appendix 4 Listed Buildings. While I was originally looking for Villa Le Breton which is there also (second listed as below) on page 12 in particular is first entry. I do not know whether Villa Le Breton has any connection to family but Mr. Le Breton's house sounds very interesting. Perhaps they both have some connection. I have searched the internet for Villa Le Breton but only found interior shots. If you able to provide photos and background of both or alternatively put us onto somebody who could that would be terrific. Something else of interest to me more but could help anyway is the parcel number quoted for each. I work in a government department in New Zealand that administers title and survey information and other property related interests (overseas investment in land, rating valuations, surveys other than cadastral, Crown owned land including management, acquisition and disposal). For example what kind of system do you have in St. Helena. Is it like UK - a deeds type system. Ours is based on Torrens system although we still have remnants of old deeds system. Is it perhaps possible and at what cost to do an historical search of these properties. I thought as a banker you would have knowledge of this area. Also is your system computerised. We have over the last 10 years been progressively developing a fully computerised system including compulsory E-Lodgement of title transactions and surveys. Parcel No. Item Description Date Grade JT5/16 Mr Le Breton's house 2 storey 9 bays Early 18th C II 2 doors all windows (have not previously found this one) JT15/11 Villa Le Breton 2 storey 5 bay + 1 bay house Early 19th C II with added verandahs and back additions. Windows sashed Hoping you can help or point us in right direction." If I ask too much whatever you can provide would be very welcome. In hindsight comment towards end was directed at you but I was actually replying to Terry. I got a bit mixed up I think. Regards Chas Le Breton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1043 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/afeee0ac/attachment.htm From ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au Tue May 29 04:56:29 2007 From: ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au (Terry Herbert) Date: Tue May 29 05:39:21 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n> Message-ID: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> John and all, You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family occupying Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of times a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and their daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, Australia not being 'edgy' enough. To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on the way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition to the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading it. There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third visit to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you published anything about your six months on the island that we can access? I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant as you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did you ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master?s thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht ? the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know there is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during your stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the introduction as to why they did the research: Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from life on the European ?mainland?, which is our background. One thing that will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living on saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and thus Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of their life within a small, closed community. The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St. Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island to determine their spatial identity. Their island is a ?little whole of humanity?, all facilities have to be present on this small island and the entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain has a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British identity. But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent, and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the increased exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in the Saints? spatial identities. Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very recently Saints were citizens of ?British Overseas territories?, which meant they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life of Saints expressed. An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide to go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually research? I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send it to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot you took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. I don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and that technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence the attendance of the French Consul. All the best Terry Herbert DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, Australia -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John and June Vigor Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is in one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above the hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd probably think hard about selling. Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. That's 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. Sheesh, don't get me started. John Vigor The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From jcoyle at powerup.com.au Tue May 29 07:04:02 2007 From: jcoyle at powerup.com.au (John Coyle) Date: Tue May 29 07:04:26 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <02d601c7a1ae$c9275cd0$0200a8c0@Concorde> Terry, I should be most interested to get a copy of the thesis. It will be interesting to compare it's summations with my own experience of living there for over two years! Regards John Coyle Brisbane, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Herbert" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:56 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send it > to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, > packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. > > The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot you > took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. I > don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have > then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and that > technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence the > attendance of the French Consul. > > > All the best > > Terry Herbert > DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, > Australia From jvigor at earthlink.net Tue May 29 07:14:29 2007 From: jvigor at earthlink.net (John and June Vigor) Date: Tue May 29 07:14:00 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> Terry, thank you for adding "Small Boat to Freedom" to the RMS ship's library. Funnily enough, I took along two hardback copies when I caught the RMS from England to St. Helena last year. My intention was to donate one to the RMS in order to add some class and erudition to the library, but when I saw the surprising quality and quantity of the books it contained I felt quite outclassed and slunk away without making my contribution. In the end, I left both copies on the island. As for a book about St. Helena, the problem is that I can't imagine who would publish it. I can't think of a single American publisher or literary agent who would be interested. The travel narrative genre is almost extinct here except for a few well-known names like Bryson and Raban. If there were any chance of getting it published, I could produce a wonderfully insightful book about my stay in St. Helena with surprising alacrity. I don't remember now if I knew during my second visit that Longwood and its garden was actually French property, but if I didn't I certainly found out later, and I still think the reason a French consul is stationed there is because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the place. And I'm convinced that fear is well founded. And incidentally, are you actually claiming that Australians are sensitive enough to care who takes cheap shots at the French? I thought it was an antipodean trait to thumb noses at the French, and deny them port access for their nuclear submarines in retaliation for their wicked sinking of Greenpeace's Rainbow Warrior--or is it just the gutsy Kiwis I'm thinking of? I hadn't seen the paper about the "spatial identities" of the Saints. I'm sure it is of great interest to a few academics, but I bet the vast majority of Saints don't even know they have a spatial identity. It may even be insulting to suggest that their spatial horizon is limited to the edges of the island. Saints fought for Britain in both World Wars as well as the Falklands falderal. They've had regular contact with Europe, Africa, and the Far East since 1502. I think that unlike President Paul Kruger, they have known for quite some time that the world is round, not flat. All the best, John Vigor From ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au Tue May 29 10:14:25 2007 From: ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au (Terry Herbert) Date: Tue May 29 10:16:21 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> Message-ID: <200705290814.l4T8EP7j018751@mail26.syd.optusnet.com.au> What an interesting insight into how you come to some of your conclusions, John. Why would you think that there is any implication that Saints think the world is flat or that the two Dutch boys wouldn't take into account the interaction of Saints with the wider world? I'm no academic and I found the paper of great interest but then I lay no claims to omniscience. I can't speak for all Australians or all Kiwis - no doubt there are some sensitive and/or gutsy ones in each country - but labeling them all as one unit seems to me as daft as saying that all South Africans are arrogant - a commonly held view here in Australia. As to finding a publisher for your work, I have been reading with interest some of the aspects of web publishing combined with hard copy. Some of the costs seem to me to be surprisingly low and there are reports of some very successful authors following this route. All the best Terry Herbert DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, Australia -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John and June Vigor Sent: Tuesday, 29 May 2007 3:14 PM To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Terry, thank you for adding "Small Boat to Freedom" to the RMS ship's library. Funnily enough, I took along two hardback copies when I caught the RMS from England to St. Helena last year. My intention was to donate one to the RMS in order to add some class and erudition to the library, but when I saw the surprising quality and quantity of the books it contained I felt quite outclassed and slunk away without making my contribution. In the end, I left both copies on the island. As for a book about St. Helena, the problem is that I can't imagine who would publish it. I can't think of a single American publisher or literary agent who would be interested. The travel narrative genre is almost extinct here except for a few well-known names like Bryson and Raban. If there were any chance of getting it published, I could produce a wonderfully insightful book about my stay in St. Helena with surprising alacrity. I don't remember now if I knew during my second visit that Longwood and its garden was actually French property, but if I didn't I certainly found out later, and I still think the reason a French consul is stationed there is because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the place. And I'm convinced that fear is well founded. And incidentally, are you actually claiming that Australians are sensitive enough to care who takes cheap shots at the French? I thought it was an antipodean trait to thumb noses at the French, and deny them port access for their nuclear submarines in retaliation for their wicked sinking of Greenpeace's Rainbow Warrior--or is it just the gutsy Kiwis I'm thinking of? I hadn't seen the paper about the "spatial identities" of the Saints. I'm sure it is of great interest to a few academics, but I bet the vast majority of Saints don't even know they have a spatial identity. It may even be insulting to suggest that their spatial horizon is limited to the edges of the island. Saints fought for Britain in both World Wars as well as the Falklands falderal. They've had regular contact with Europe, Africa, and the Far East since 1502. I think that unlike President Paul Kruger, they have known for quite some time that the world is round, not flat. All the best, John Vigor The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From John at BurghHouse.com Tue May 29 12:42:36 2007 From: John at BurghHouse.com (John Turner) Date: Tue May 29 12:47:40 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] =?iso-8859-1?q?=22SAINTS_-_Spatial_identities_of_the_c?= =?iso-8859-1?q?itizens_of_Saint_Helena_-_Master=27s__thesis_Human_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?Geography_University_of_Utrecht_-_the_Netherlands_B?= =?iso-8859-1?q?y_Maarten_Hogenstijn_and_Dani=EBl_van_Middelkoop_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=22?= In-Reply-To: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n> <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <000901c7a1de$158c5b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45> If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the authors'' permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically requests it (direct to me - not via list). I also have a synopsis (257Kb). JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Terry Herbert Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton John and all, You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family occupying Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of times a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and their daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, Australia not being 'edgy' enough. To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on the way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition to the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading it. There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third visit to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you published anything about your six months on the island that we can access? I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant as you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did you ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master?s thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht ? the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know there is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during your stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the introduction as to why they did the research: Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from life on the European ?mainland?, which is our background. One thing that will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living on saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and thus Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of their life within a small, closed community. The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St. Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island to determine their spatial identity. Their island is a ?little whole of humanity?, all facilities have to be present on this small island and the entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain has a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British identity. But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent, and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the increased exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in the Saints? spatial identities. Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very recently Saints were citizens of ?British Overseas territories?, which meant they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life of Saints expressed. An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide to go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually research? I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send it to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot you took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. I don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and that technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence the attendance of the French Consul. All the best Terry Herbert DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, Australia -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John and June Vigor Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is in one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above the hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd probably think hard about selling. Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. That's 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. Sheesh, don't get me started. John Vigor The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From Ychrist at aol.com Tue May 29 15:33:17 2007 From: Ychrist at aol.com (Ychrist@aol.com) Date: Tue May 29 15:34:07 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Message-ID: Dear Terry, I would be very interested in reading the Hogenstijn and van Middelkoop dissertation. I gather it is lodged at Utrecht and wonder if there are any issues about your kind offer to send an electronic version of the one that you have? If the are no issues, i.e. about copyright, etc., I would love to have one. My understanding is that a dissertation does not have the same status as a published book. Alas for Hogenstijn and van Middelkoop. There is clearly an interest in their work. Best wishes Yvette Christians? ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/23e4929b/attachment.htm From joocee at btopenworld.com Tue May 29 16:28:28 2007 From: joocee at btopenworld.com (JULIET COTTAM) Date: Tue May 29 16:29:08 2007 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BSTHELENA=5D_=22SAINTS_-_Spatial_identities_of_the_c?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?itizens_of_Saint_Helena_-_Master's__thesis_Human_Geography?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_University_of_Utrecht_-_the_Netherlands_By_Maarten_Hogens?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?tijn_and_Dani=EBl_van_Middelkoop_=22?= References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n><200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> <000901c7a1de$158c5b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <000801c7a1fd$a5d7ce50$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> Hi John - I would be interested to read the synopsis of the thesis - I am very interested in the use of the term 'spatial' - it appears to be the 'in' word at the moment! My neighbours' daughter, apparently suffers from 'spatial' limitation - but they are not really sure what that means ! if, having, devoured the thesis - and I feel I could stomach more, perhaps I could pick up a copy when I hit Jamestown in August - good beside reading?! Thanks ,in anticipation.Juliet. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Turner" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " > If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the authors'' > permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. > > The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically > requests it (direct to me - not via list). > > I also have a synopsis (257Kb). > > JT > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf > Of Terry Herbert > Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 > To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' > Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > > John and all, > > You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family occupying > Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the > years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of times > a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and their > daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a > Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in > discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a > choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, > Australia not being 'edgy' enough. > > To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on the > way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen > some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading > for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition to > the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading > it. > > There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first > was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third visit > to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the > publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you > published anything about your six months on the island that we can access? > I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant as > you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did you > ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of > Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the > Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know there > is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during your > stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the introduction > as to why they did the research: > > Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from > life on the European 'mainland', which is our background. One thing that > will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living on > saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and thus > Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of > their life within a small, closed community. > > The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St. > Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island to > determine their spatial identity. Their island is a "little whole of > humanity", all facilities have to be present on this small island and the > entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial > scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is > limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV > and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside > world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain has > a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British > identity. > > But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are > now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it > to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent, > and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could > bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the increased > exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in > the Saints' spatial identities. > Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very > recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which meant > they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British > citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. > Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The > celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life of > Saints expressed. > > An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the > interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide to > go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be > better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? > So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually research? > > > I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send it > to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, > packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. > > The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot you > took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. I > don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have > then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and that > technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence the > attendance of the French Consul. > > > All the best > > Terry Herbert > DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, > Australia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf > Of John and June Vigor > Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM > To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > > All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were > living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right > next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we > were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of > fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton > was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. > > It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of > renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were > there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband > had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy > northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend > about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is in > one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above the > hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a > nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working > out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town > while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, > though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd > probably think hard about selling. > > Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to > be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to > miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so > violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. > > He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the > British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and > undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. > > Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would > have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! > > Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. That's > 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. > Sheesh, don't get me started. > > John Vigor > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > __________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From prporter1 at aim.com Tue May 29 16:30:02 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Tue May 29 16:36:31 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C97014FA1B4FA2-45C-783E@webmail-de15.sysops.aol.com> Sounds great! -----Original Message----- From: Ychrist@aol.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 7:33 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Dear Terry, I would be very interested in reading the Hogenstijn and van Middelkoop dissertation. I gather it is lodged at Utrecht and wonder if there are any issues about your kind offer to send an electronic version of the one that you have? If the are no issues, i.e. about copyright, etc., I would love to have one. My understanding is that a dissertation does not have the same status as a published book. Alas for Hogenstijn and van Middelkoop. There is clearly an interest in their work. Best wishes Yvette Christians? ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/66ffdcd2/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Tue May 29 16:41:40 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Tue May 29 16:42:18 2007 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[STHELENA]_"SAINTS_-_Spatial_identities_of_the_citizens_of_?= =?utf-8?Q?Saint_Helena_-_Master's__thesis_Human_Geography_University_of_U?= =?utf-8?Q?trecht_-_the_Netherlands_By_Maarten_Hogenstijn_and_Dani=C3=ABl_?= =?utf-8?Q?van_Middelk?= In-Reply-To: <000801c7a1fd$a5d7ce50$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n><200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> <000901c7a1de$158c5b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <000801c7a1fd$a5d7ce50$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> Message-ID: <8C970169A26AEC3-45C-78FE@webmail-de15.sysops.aol.com> What does that mean? -----Original Message----- From: JULIET COTTAM To: John@burghhouse.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 8:28 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk Hi John - I would be interested to read the synopsis of the thesis - I am ery interested in the use of the term 'spatial' - it appears to be the 'in' ord at the moment! My neighbours' daughter, apparently suffers from spatial' limitation - but they are not really sure what that means ! if, aving, devoured the thesis - and I feel I could stomach more, perhaps I ould pick up a copy when I hit Jamestown in August - good beside reading?! hanks ,in anticipation.Juliet. - ----- Original Message ----- rom: "John Turner" o: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" list@sthelena.se> ent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:42 AM ubject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint elena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the etherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the uthors'' permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically requests it (direct to me - not via list). I also have a synopsis (257Kb). JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Terry Herbert Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton John and all, You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family ccupying Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of imes a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and heir daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, Australia not being 'edgy' enough. To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on he way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition o the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading it. There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third isit to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you published anything about your six months on the island that we can access? I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant s you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did ou ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens f Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - he Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know here is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during our stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the ntroduction as to why they did the research: Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from life on the European 'mainland', which is our background. One thing that will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living n saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and hus Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of their life within a small, closed community. The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St. Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island o determine their spatial identity. Their island is a "little whole of humanity", all facilities have to be present on this small island and the entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain as a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British identity. But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent, and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the ncreased exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in the Saints' spatial identities. Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which eant they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life f Saints expressed. An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide o go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually esearch? I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send t to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot ou took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and hat technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence he attendance of the French Consul. All the best Terry Herbert DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, Australia -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John and June Vigor Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I ere living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le reton was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we ere there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her usband had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would pend about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is n one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above he hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't orking out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were here, though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd probably think hard about selling. Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he ould have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. hat's 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to laska. Sheesh, don't get me started. John Vigor The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/40c906c7/attachment.htm From john at burghhouse.com Tue May 29 16:49:02 2007 From: john at burghhouse.com (John Turner) Date: Tue May 29 16:54:03 2007 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BSTHELENA=5D_=22SAINTS_-_Spatial_identities_of_the_c?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?itizens_of_Saint_Helena_-_Master's__thesis_Human_Geography?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_University_of_Utrecht_-_the_Netherlands_By_Maarten_Hogens?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?tijn_and_Dani=EBl_van_Middelk?= In-Reply-To: <8C970169A26AEC3-45C-78FE@webmail-de15.sysops.aol.com> References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n><200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> <000901c7a1de$158c5b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45><000801c7a1fd$a5d7ce50$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> <8C970169A26AEC3-45C-78FE@webmail-de15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004801c7a200$824f4000$2d0b000a@shgbank45> That is possibly the opposite of this. _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of prporter1@aim.com Sent: 29 May 2007 14:42 To: joocee@btopenworld.com; list@sthelena.se Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk What does that mean? -----Original Message----- From: JULIET COTTAM To: John@burghhouse.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 8:28 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk Hi John - I would be interested to read the synopsis of the thesis - I am very interested in the use of the term 'spatial' - it appears to be the 'in' word at the moment! My neighbours' daughter, apparently suffers from 'spatial' limitation - but they are not really sure what that means ! if, having, devoured the thesis - and I feel I could stomach more, perhaps I could pick up a copy when I hit Jamestown in August - good beside reading?! Thanks ,in anticipation.Juliet. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Turner" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " > If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the authors'' > permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. > > The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically > requests it (direct to me - not via list). > > I also have a synopsis (257Kb). > > JT > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se ] On Behalf > Of Terry Herbert > Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 > To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' > Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > > John and all, > > You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family occupying > Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the > years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of times > a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and their > daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a > Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in > discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a > choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, > Australia not being 'edgy' enough. > > To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on the > way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen > some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading > for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition to > the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading > it. > > There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first > was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third visit > to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the > publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you > published anything about your six months on the island that we can access? > I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant as > you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did you > ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of > Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the > Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know there > is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during your > stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the introduction > as to why they did the research: > > Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from > life on the European 'mainland', which is our background. One thing that > will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living on > saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and thus > Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of > their life within a small, closed community. > > The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St. > Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island to > determine their spatial identity. Their island is a "little whole of > humanity", all facilities have to be present on this small island and the > entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial > scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is > limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV > and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside > world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain has > a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British > identity. > > But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are > now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it > to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent, > and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could > bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the increased > exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in > the Saints' spatial identities. > Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very > recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which meant > they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British > citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. > Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The > celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life of > Saints expressed. > > An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the > interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide to > go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be > better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? > So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually research? > > > I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send it > to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, > packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. > > The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot you > took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. I > don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have > then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and that > technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence the > attendance of the French Consul. > > > All the best > > Terry Herbert > DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, > Australia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se ] On Behalf > Of John and June Vigor > Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM > To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > > All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were > living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right > next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we > were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of > fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton > was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. > > It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of > renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were > there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband > had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy > northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend > about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is in > one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above the > hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a > nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working > out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town > while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, > though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd > probably think hard about selling. > > Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to > be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to > miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so > violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. > > He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the > British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and > undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. > > Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would > have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! > > Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. That's > 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. > Sheesh, don't get me started. > > John Vigor > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > __________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. _____ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/f687ed39/attachment.htm From takkies at mighty.co.za Tue May 29 16:54:23 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Tue May 29 16:54:57 2007 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BSTHELENA=5D_=22SAINTS_-_Spatial_identities_of_the_c?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?itizens_of_Saint_Helena_-_Master's__thesis_Human_Geography?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_University_of_Utrecht_-_the_Netherlands_By_Maarten_Hogens?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?tijn_and_Dani=EBl_van_Middelkoop_=22?= References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n><200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><000901c7a1de$158c5b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <000801c7a1fd$a5d7ce50$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> Message-ID: <001c01c7a201$4264fc90$0200a8c0@dad> Haha... Juliet, I'm sure that somewhere in the definition of the term "spacial" we could find an explanation behind prporter1's brief responses... RobG ----- Original Message ----- From: "JULIET COTTAM" To: ; "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " > Hi John - I would be interested to read the synopsis of the thesis - I am > very interested in the use of the term 'spatial' - it appears to be the > 'in' > word at the moment! My neighbours' daughter, apparently suffers from > 'spatial' limitation - but they are not really sure what that means ! if, > having, devoured the thesis - and I feel I could stomach more, perhaps I > could pick up a copy when I hit Jamestown in August - good beside > reading?! > Thanks ,in anticipation.Juliet. > - ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Turner" > To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:42 AM > Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint > Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the > Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " > > >> If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the > authors'' >> permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. >> >> The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically >> requests it (direct to me - not via list). >> >> I also have a synopsis (257Kb). >> >> JT >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On >> Behalf >> Of Terry Herbert >> Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 >> To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' >> Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton >> >> John and all, >> >> You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family > occupying >> Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the >> years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of > times >> a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and > their >> daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a >> Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in >> discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a >> choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, >> Australia not being 'edgy' enough. >> >> To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on > the >> way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen >> some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading >> for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition > to >> the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading >> it. >> >> There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The >> first >> was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third > visit >> to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the >> publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you >> published anything about your six months on the island that we can >> access? >> I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant > as >> you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did > you >> ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens > of >> Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - > the >> Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know > there >> is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during > your >> stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the > introduction >> as to why they did the research: >> >> Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from >> life on the European 'mainland', which is our background. One thing that >> will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living > on >> saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and > thus >> Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of >> their life within a small, closed community. >> >> The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the >> St. >> Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island > to >> determine their spatial identity. Their island is a "little whole of >> humanity", all facilities have to be present on this small island and the >> entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial >> scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is >> limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of >> TV >> and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside >> world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain > has >> a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British >> identity. >> >> But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there >> are >> now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting >> it >> to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid >> dependent, >> and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could >> bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the > increased >> exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes >> in >> the Saints' spatial identities. >> Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very >> recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which > meant >> they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of >> British >> citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. >> Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The >> celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life > of >> Saints expressed. >> >> An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the >> interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide > to >> go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be >> better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? >> So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually > research? >> >> >> I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send > it >> to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, >> packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. >> >> The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot > you >> took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. > I >> don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have >> then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and > that >> technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence > the >> attendance of the French Consul. >> >> >> All the best >> >> Terry Herbert >> DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, >> Australia >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On >> Behalf >> Of John and June Vigor >> Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM >> To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton >> >> >> >> All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I > were >> living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right >> next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we >> were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of >> fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le > Breton >> was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. >> >> It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of >> renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we > were >> there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her > husband >> had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy >> northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would > spend >> about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is > in >> one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above > the >> hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of >> Jamestown--a >> nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't > working >> out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town >> while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were > there, >> though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd >> probably think hard about selling. >> >> Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough >> to >> be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to >> miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so >> violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. >> >> He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the >> British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and >> undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. >> >> Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he > would >> have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! >> >> Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. > That's >> 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to > Alaska. >> Sheesh, don't get me started. >> >> John Vigor >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >> __________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.1/822 - Release Date: 2007/05/28 > 11:40 AM > From john at burghhouse.com Tue May 29 16:56:20 2007 From: john at burghhouse.com (John Turner) Date: Tue May 29 17:01:21 2007 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BSTHELENA=5D_=22SAINTS_-_Spatial_identities_of_the_c?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?itizens_of_Saint_Helena_-_Master's__thesis_Human_Geography?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_University_of_Utrecht_-_the_Netherlands_By_Maarten_Hogens?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?tijn_and_Dani=EBl_van_Middelk?= In-Reply-To: <8C970190A50D1A7-69C-77C7@webmail-df01.sysops.aol.com> References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n><200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> <000901c7a1de$158c5b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45><000801c7a1fd$a5d7ce50$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> <8C970169A26AEC3-45C-78FE@webmail-de15.sysops.aol.com> <004801c7a200$824f4000$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <8C970190A50D1A7-69C-77C7@webmail-df01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <006201c7a201$87382860$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Reasonably. If it's this, then it can't be that. _____ From: prporter1@aim.com [mailto:prporter1@aim.com] Sent: 29 May 2007 14:59 To: john@burghhouse.com; list@sthelena.se Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk Are you sure that it isn't the same? -----Original Message----- From: John Turner To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 8:49 am Subject: RE: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk That is possibly the opposite of this. _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se ] On Behalf Of prporter1@aim.com Sent: 29 May 2007 14:42 To: joocee@btopenworld.com; list@sthelena.se Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk What does that mean? -----Original Message----- From: JULIET COTTAM To: John@burghhouse.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 8:28 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk Hi John - I would be interested to read the synopsis of the thesis - I am very interested in the use of the term 'spatial' - it appears to be the 'in' word at the moment! My neighbours' daughter, apparently suffers from 'spatial' limitation - but they are not really sure what that means ! if, having, devoured the thesis - and I feel I could stomach more, perhaps I could pick up a copy when I hit Jamestown in August - good beside reading?! Thanks ,in anticipation.Juliet. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Turner" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " > If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the authors'' > permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. > > The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically > requests it (direct to me - not via list). > > I also have a synopsis (257Kb). > > JT > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se ] On Behalf > Of Terry Herbert > Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 > To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' > Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > > John and all, > > You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family occupying > Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the > years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of times > a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and their > daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a > Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in > discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a > choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, > Australia not being 'edgy' enough. > > To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on the > way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen > some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading > for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition to > the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading > it. > > There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first > was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third visit > to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the > publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you > published anything about your six months on the island that we can access? > I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant as > you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did you > ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of > Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the > Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know there > is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during your > stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the introduction > as to why they did the research: > > Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from > life on the European 'mainland', which is our background. One thing that > will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living on > saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and thus > Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of > their life within a small, closed community. > > The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St. > Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island to > determine their spatial identity. Their island is a "little whole of > humanity", all facilities have to be present on this small island and the > entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial > scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is > limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV > and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside > world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain has > a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British > identity. > > But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are > now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it > to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent, > and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could > bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the increased > exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in > the Saints' spatial identities. > Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very > recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which meant > they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British > citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. > Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The > celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life of > Saints expressed. > > An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the > interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide to > go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be > better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? > So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually research? > > > I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send it > to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, > packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. > > The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot you > took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. I > don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have > then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and that > technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence the > attendance of the French Consul. > > > All the best > > Terry Herbert > DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, > Australia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se ] On Behalf > Of John and June Vigor > Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM > To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > > All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were > living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right > next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we > were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of > fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton > was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. > > It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of > renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were > there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband > had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy > northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend > about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is in > one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above the > hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a > nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working > out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town > while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, > though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd > probably think hard about selling. > > Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to > be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to > miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so > violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. > > He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the > British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and > undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. > > Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would > have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! > > Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. That's > 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. > Sheesh, don't get me started. > > John Vigor > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > __________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. _____ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/f1ac1bad/attachment-0001.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Tue May 29 17:09:26 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Tue May 29 17:10:36 2007 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[STHELENA]_"SAINTS_-_Spatial_identities_of_the_citizens_of_?= =?utf-8?Q?Saint_Helena_-_Master's__thesis_Human_Geography_University_of_U?= =?utf-8?Q?trecht_-_the_Netherlands_By_Maarten_Hogenstijn_and_Dani=C3=ABl_?= =?utf-8?Q?van_Middelk?= In-Reply-To: <006201c7a201$87382860$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n><200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> <000901c7a1de$158c5b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45><000801c7a1fd$a5d7ce50$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> <8C970169A26AEC3-45C-78FE@webmail-de15.sysops.aol.com> <004801c7a200$824f4000$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <8C970190A50D1A7-69C-77C7@webmail-df01.sysops.aol.com> <006201c7a201$87382860$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <8C9701A7B31AED9-69C-78E6@webmail-df01.sysops.aol.com> Might it be both? -----Original Message----- From: John Turner To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 8:56 am Subject: RE: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk Reasonably.? If it's this, then it can't be that. ? From: prporter1@aim.com [mailto:prporter1@aim.com] Sent: 29 May 2007 14:59 To: john@burghhouse.com; list@sthelena.se Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk Are you sure that it isn't the same? -----Original Message----- From: John Turner To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 8:49 am Subject: RE: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk That is possibly the opposite of this. From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of prporter1@aim.com Sent: 29 May 2007 14:42 To: joocee@btopenworld.com; list@sthelena.se Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk What does that mean? -----Original Message----- From: JULIET COTTAM To: John@burghhouse.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 8:28 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk Hi John - I would be interested to read the synopsis of the thesis - I am ery interested in the use of the term 'spatial' - it appears to be the 'in' ord at the moment! My neighbours' daughter, apparently suffers from spatial' limitation - but they are not really sure what that means ! if, aving, devoured the thesis - and I feel I could stomach more, perhaps I ould pick up a copy when I hit Jamestown in August - good beside reading?! hanks ,in anticipation.Juliet. - ----- Original Message ----- rom: "John Turner" o: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" list@sthelena.se> ent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:42 AM ubject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint elena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the etherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the uthors'' permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically requests it (direct to me - not via list). I also have a synopsis (257Kb). JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Terry Herbert Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton John and all, You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family ccupying Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of imes a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and heir daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, Australia not being 'edgy' enough. To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on he way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition o the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading it. There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third isit to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you published anything about your six months on the island that we can access? I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant s you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did ou ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens f Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - he Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know here is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during our stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the ntroduction as to why they did the research: Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from life on the European 'mainland', which is our background. One thing that will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living n saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and hus Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of their life within a small, closed community. The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St. Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island o determine their spatial identity. Their island is a "little whole of humanity", all facilities have to be present on this small island and the entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain as a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British identity. But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent, and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the ncreased exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in the Saints' spatial identities. Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which eant they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life f Saints expressed. An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide o go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually esearch? I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send t to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot ou took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and hat technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence he attendance of the French Consul. All the best Terry Herbert DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, Australia -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John and June Vigor Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I ere living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le reton was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we ere there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her usband had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would pend about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is n one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above he hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't orking out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were here, though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd probably think hard about selling. Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he ould have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. hat's 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to laska. Sheesh, don't get me started. John Vigor The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/45fd8a29/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Tue May 29 16:59:07 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Tue May 29 17:14:45 2007 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[STHELENA]_"SAINTS_-_Spatial_identities_of_the_citizens_of_?= =?utf-8?Q?Saint_Helena_-_Master's__thesis_Human_Geography_University_of_U?= =?utf-8?Q?trecht_-_the_Netherlands_By_Maarten_Hogenstijn_and_Dani=C3=ABl_?= =?utf-8?Q?van_Middelk?= In-Reply-To: <004801c7a200$824f4000$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n><200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> <000901c7a1de$158c5b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45><000801c7a1fd$a5d7ce50$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> <8C970169A26AEC3-45C-78FE@webmail-de15.sysops.aol.com> <004801c7a200$824f4000$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <8C970190A50D1A7-69C-77C7@webmail-df01.sysops.aol.com> Are you sure that it isn't the same? -----Original Message----- From: John Turner To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 8:49 am Subject: RE: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk That is possibly the opposite of this. From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of prporter1@aim.com Sent: 29 May 2007 14:42 To: joocee@btopenworld.com; list@sthelena.se Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk What does that mean? -----Original Message----- From: JULIET COTTAM To: John@burghhouse.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 8:28 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelk Hi John - I would be interested to read the synopsis of the thesis - I am ery interested in the use of the term 'spatial' - it appears to be the 'in' ord at the moment! My neighbours' daughter, apparently suffers from spatial' limitation - but they are not really sure what that means ! if, aving, devoured the thesis - and I feel I could stomach more, perhaps I ould pick up a copy when I hit Jamestown in August - good beside reading?! hanks ,in anticipation.Juliet. - ----- Original Message ----- rom: "John Turner" o: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" list@sthelena.se> ent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:42 AM ubject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint elena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the etherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the uthors'' permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically requests it (direct to me - not via list). I also have a synopsis (257Kb). JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Terry Herbert Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton John and all, You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family ccupying Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of imes a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and heir daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, Australia not being 'edgy' enough. To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on he way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition o the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading it. There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third isit to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you published anything about your six months on the island that we can access? I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant s you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did ou ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens f Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - he Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know here is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during our stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the ntroduction as to why they did the research: Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from life on the European 'mainland', which is our background. One thing that will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living n saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and hus Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of their life within a small, closed community. The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St. Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island o determine their spatial identity. Their island is a "little whole of humanity", all facilities have to be present on this small island and the entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain as a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British identity. But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent, and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the ncreased exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in the Saints' spatial identities. Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which eant they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life f Saints expressed. An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide o go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually esearch? I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send t to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot ou took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and hat technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence he attendance of the French Consul. All the best Terry Herbert DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, Australia -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John and June Vigor Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I ere living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le reton was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we ere there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her usband had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would pend about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is n one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above he hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't orking out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were here, though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd probably think hard about selling. Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he ould have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. hat's 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to laska. Sheesh, don't get me started. John Vigor The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/3ab20a5b/attachment.htm From jvigor at earthlink.net Tue May 29 19:12:12 2007 From: jvigor at earthlink.net (John and June Vigor) Date: Tue May 29 19:11:46 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <001101c7a214$812e76a0$fa02f304@fmk4n> Terry, I had to translate an awful lot of scientific gobbledygook in my 30 years as a newspaperman and just reading the snippet you sent us set off the warning signals in my brain. As I said, I haven't read the thesis and I'm probably incapable of understanding it anyway, but there are assumptions in the sample piece you sent that would have me very worried about the Dutch pair's research. For example, what does this mean, exactly: "But at the same time, the increased exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in the Saints' spatial identities." Is a plane-load of tourists going to give Saints a better idea of how big the world is outside their island than, say, a visiting cruise ship with 1,500 passengers? The implication here is that Saints aren't taught geography in school, that they are insular, naive, and closed-minded. I think that's an insult. I met a man on the waterfront who knew the names of all the Union-Castle liners and Safmarine liners that had called at St. Helena on their regular runs since 1936. He remembered details about the Warwick Castle, on which I once worked my passage from Durban to London, and the Edinburgh Castle, on which I traveled as a passenger. And there are many others like him. The Saints travel to Ascension and work with Americans. They travel to the Falklands and probably realize South America is just over the horizon. They mix with people from all over the world. They get medical care in Cape Town. They watch television from overseas that depicts happenings in many foreign countries. They have a war memorial at the seaside with the names of Saints who died in foreign fields. They have a monument in the town gardens that celebrates the island's large role in breaking up the African slave trade. They used to live cheek by jowl with soldiers from all over Britain and of course most of them know what country the red, white, and blue flag outside Longwood represents. Their spatial identity is not restricted to one rock in the middle of the ocean. And a second example: "Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which meant they did not have the right of abode in the UK. That's not entirely accurate. The inhabitants of St. Helena were granted full British citizenship in 1659. It was Maggie Thatcher who arbitrarily and illegally suspended their citizenship rights for a few years and demoted them to second-class citizens via an immigration law that Britons passed when they were scared stiff that a flood of refugees from Hong Kong would descend upon them. Thanks to the sterling efforts of Saints like Basil George, their full citizenship was restored in 2002. If the premise of the Dutch thesis is that Saints have limited contact with the outside world, that is true only in the physical sense, but not in the mental sense that their ability to visualize space outside the island is impaired. They constantly think beyond the island. In fact, there's hardly an island Saint who can't tell you where the RMS is at any given moment. They avidly follow her every move from country to country. Oh, and Terry, you're right about South Africans. I'm not one, but I lived among them for many years, and they are arrogant. That's because they're over-achievers. They have a lot to be arrogant about. Does anyone remember where the world's first heart transplant operation took place? Cheers, John Vigor From mhogenstijn at hotmail.com Tue May 29 21:03:07 2007 From: mhogenstijn at hotmail.com (maarten hogenstijn) Date: Tue May 29 21:03:42 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Ma In-Reply-To: <000901c7a1de$158c5b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: Hi all, Wow, some interest again for the Master's thesis that Daniël and I did together in 2002. I still read this list on Saint Helena from time to time and just caught op un your discussion. It is good to hear that some of you find in interesting. For the others: I hope you want to read it before commenting on it too much. For your convenience, I have temporarily put it on my own server, where you can download it. You can access it at www.hogenstijn.nl/helena It is about 6,5 MB, like John said. I will remove it again after a week or two. There is no problem with copyrights if you download a copy for yourself. Please do not start printing and distributing it widely. When we did our thesis, a small number of books was printed. We have long run out of them. Three books should be on Saint Helena: one in the library, one in the Governor's office (he requested a copy) and one with Basil George, who helped us a lot when we were there. We'd be interested to hear your comments. After publishing the thesis, we have presented a paper on it at a geographer's conference in London, which finally led to the publication of an article in the scientific journal Tijdschrift voor Sociale en Economische Geografie (TESG). Despite the very Dutch title, this is an English-language scientific journal. You might be able to find it if you have access to a university library. Details: Hogenstijn, M., & Middelkoop, D.P. van (2005). Saint Helena: Citizenship and spatial identities on a remote island. TESG, 96(1), 96-104. After the Saint Helena project, we moved on and Daniel and I are now doing a joint Ph.D project on an entirely different subject (although still in geography). We think the language in the thesis is not too scientific. We tried to draw some scientific conclusions, but also to write about our experiences there. Hope you enjoy your read greeting from the Netherlands, Maarten >From: "John Turner" >Reply-To: John@burghhouse.com,"All about St. Helena - The Island in the >South Atlantic(Eng)" >To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" > >Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint >Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the >Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Daniël van Middelkoop " >Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:42:36 -0000 > >If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the >authors'' >permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. > >The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically >requests it (direct to me - not via list). > >I also have a synopsis (257Kb). > >JT > >-----Original Message----- >From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf >Of Terry Herbert >Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 >To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' >Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > >John and all, > >You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family >occupying >Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the >years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of times >a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and >their >daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a >Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in >discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a >choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, >Australia not being 'edgy' enough. > >To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on the >way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen >some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading >for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition >to >the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading >it. > >There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first >was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third visit >to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the >publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you >published anything about your six months on the island that we can access? >I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant as >you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did you >ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of >Saint Helena - Master’s thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht – the >Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Daniël van Middelkoop "? I know >there >is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during >your >stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the introduction >as to why they did the research: > > Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from >life on the European ‘mainland’, which is our background. One thing that >will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living on >saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and >thus >Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of >their life within a small, closed community. > >The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St. >Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island to >determine their spatial identity. Their island is a “little whole of >humanity”, all facilities have to be present on this small island and the >entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial >scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is >limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV >and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside >world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain has >a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British >identity. > >But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are >now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it >to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent, >and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could >bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the increased >exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in >the Saints’ spatial identities. >Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very >recently Saints were citizens of “British Overseas territories”, which >meant >they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British >citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. >Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The >celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life >of >Saints expressed. > >An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the >interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide to >go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be >better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? >So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually research? > > >I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send >it >to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, >packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. > >The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot you >took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. I >don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have >then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and >that >technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence >the >attendance of the French Consul. > > >All the best > >Terry Herbert > DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, > Australia > > >-----Original Message----- >From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf >Of John and June Vigor >Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM >To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) >Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > >All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were >living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right >next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we >were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of >fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton >was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. > >It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of >renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were >there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband >had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy >northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend >about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is >in >one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above >the >hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a >nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working >out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town >while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, >though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd >probably think hard about selling. > >Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to >be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to >miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so >violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. > >He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the >British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and >undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. > >Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would >have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! > >Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10°C in Kloof. Oh, wow. >That's >50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. >Sheesh, don't get me started. > >John Vigor > >The S:t Helena Mailing List >To unsubscribe please send a email to: >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > >The S:t Helena Mailing List >To unsubscribe please send a email to: >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > >__________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com > > > >The S:t Helena Mailing List >To unsubscribe please send a email to: >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. _________________________________________________________________ Live Search, for accurate results! http://www.live.nl From flywellretreat at galileosa.co.za Tue May 29 21:10:22 2007 From: flywellretreat at galileosa.co.za (Cindy Mussell) Date: Tue May 29 21:13:16 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <001101c7a214$812e76a0$fa02f304@fmk4n> Message-ID: <20070529191228.A1432BE8B6@poscpt0h01.cpt.saa.co.za> Heyyyyyyyyy - I resent that !!!!!! ;-)))) Not all south africans are arrogant, that's too much of a generalisation LOL I am one (south african) we're all nice unassuming quiet people here * evil grin * Kind regards Cindy -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John and June Vigor Sent: 29 May 2007 19:12 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Terry, I had to translate an awful lot of scientific gobbledygook in my 30 years as a newspaperman and just reading the snippet you sent us set off the warning signals in my brain. As I said, I haven't read the thesis and I'm probably incapable of understanding it anyway, but there are assumptions in the sample piece you sent that would have me very worried about the Dutch pair's research. For example, what does this mean, exactly: "But at the same time, the increased exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in the Saints' spatial identities." Is a plane-load of tourists going to give Saints a better idea of how big the world is outside their island than, say, a visiting cruise ship with 1,500 passengers? The implication here is that Saints aren't taught geography in school, that they are insular, naive, and closed-minded. I think that's an insult. I met a man on the waterfront who knew the names of all the Union-Castle liners and Safmarine liners that had called at St. Helena on their regular runs since 1936. He remembered details about the Warwick Castle, on which I once worked my passage from Durban to London, and the Edinburgh Castle, on which I traveled as a passenger. And there are many others like him. The Saints travel to Ascension and work with Americans. They travel to the Falklands and probably realize South America is just over the horizon. They mix with people from all over the world. They get medical care in Cape Town. They watch television from overseas that depicts happenings in many foreign countries. They have a war memorial at the seaside with the names of Saints who died in foreign fields. They have a monument in the town gardens that celebrates the island's large role in breaking up the African slave trade. They used to live cheek by jowl with soldiers from all over Britain and of course most of them know what country the red, white, and blue flag outside Longwood represents. Their spatial identity is not restricted to one rock in the middle of the ocean. And a second example: "Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which meant they did not have the right of abode in the UK. That's not entirely accurate. The inhabitants of St. Helena were granted full British citizenship in 1659. It was Maggie Thatcher who arbitrarily and illegally suspended their citizenship rights for a few years and demoted them to second-class citizens via an immigration law that Britons passed when they were scared stiff that a flood of refugees from Hong Kong would descend upon them. Thanks to the sterling efforts of Saints like Basil George, their full citizenship was restored in 2002. If the premise of the Dutch thesis is that Saints have limited contact with the outside world, that is true only in the physical sense, but not in the mental sense that their ability to visualize space outside the island is impaired. They constantly think beyond the island. In fact, there's hardly an island Saint who can't tell you where the RMS is at any given moment. They avidly follow her every move from country to country. Oh, and Terry, you're right about South Africans. I'm not one, but I lived among them for many years, and they are arrogant. That's because they're over-achievers. They have a lot to be arrogant about. Does anyone remember where the world's first heart transplant operation took place? Cheers, John Vigor The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From prporter1 at aim.com Tue May 29 23:00:59 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Tue May 29 23:01:34 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Ma In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8C9704B97A19CB0-DC8-8C32@mblk-r16.sysops.aol.com> Can you detail the thesis? -----Original Message----- From: maarten hogenstijn To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 1:03 pm Subject: RE: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Ma Hi all,? ? Wow, some interest again for the Master's thesis that Dani?l and I did together in 2002.? I still read this list on Saint Helena from time to time and just caught op un your discussion. It is good to hear that some of you find in interesting. For the others: I hope you want to read it before commenting on it too much.? ? For your convenience, I have temporarily put it on my own server, where you can download it.? You can access it at www.hogenstijn.nl/helena? ? It is about 6,5 MB, like John said.? I will remove it again after a week or two.? There is no problem with copyrights if you download a copy for yourself. Please do not start printing and distributing it widely. When we did our thesis, a small number of books was printed. We have long run out of them. Three books should be on Saint Helena: one in the library, one in the Governor's office (he requested a copy) and one with Basil George, who helped us a lot when we were there.? ? We'd be interested to hear your comments. After publishing the thesis, we have presented a paper on it at a geographer's conference in London, which finally led to the publication of an article in the scientific journal Tijdschrift voor Sociale en Economische Geografie (TESG). Despite the very Dutch title, this is an English-language scientific journal. You might be able to find it if you have access to a university library. Details:? ? Hogenstijn, M., & Middelkoop, D.P. van (2005). Saint Helena: Citizenship and spatial identities on a remote island. TESG, 96(1), 96-104.? ? After the Saint Helena project, we moved on and Daniel and I are now doing a joint Ph.D project on an entirely different subject (although still in geography).? ? We think the language in the thesis is not too scientific. We tried to draw some scientific conclusions, but also to write about our experiences there.? ? Hope you enjoy your read? ? greeting from the Netherlands,? ? Maarten? ? >From: "John Turner" ? >Reply-To: John@burghhouse.com,"All about St. Helena - The Island in the >South Atlantic(Eng)" ? >To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" >? >Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint >Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the >Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? >Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:42:36 -0000? >? >If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the >authors''? >permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating.? >? >The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically? >requests it (direct to me - not via list).? >? >I also have a synopsis (257Kb).? >? >JT? >? >-----Original Message-----? >From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf? >Of Terry Herbert? >Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56? >To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'? >Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton? >? >John and all,? >? >You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family >occupying? >Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the? >years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of times? >a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and >their? >daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a? >Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in? >discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a? >choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter,? >Australia not being 'edgy' enough.? >? >To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on the? >way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen? >some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading? >for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition >to? >the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading? >it.? >? >There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first? >was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third visit? >to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the? >publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you? >published anything about your six months on the island that we can access?? >I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant as? >you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did you? >ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of? >Saint Helena - Master?s thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht ? the? >Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know >there? >is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during >your? >stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the introduction? >as to why they did the research:? >? > Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from? >life on the European ?mainland?, which is our background. One thing that? >will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living on? >saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and >thus? >Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of? >their life within a small, closed community.? >? >The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St.? >Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island to? >determine their spatial identity. Their island is a ?little whole of? >humanity?, all facilities have to be present on this small island and the? >entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial? >scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is? >limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV? >and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside? >world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain has? >a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British? >identity.? >? >But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are? >now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it? >to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent,? >and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could? >bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the increased? >exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in? >the Saints? spatial identities.? >Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very? >recently Saints were citizens of ?British Overseas territories?, which >meant? >they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British? >citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work.? >Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The? >celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life >of? >Saints expressed.? >? >An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the? >interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide to? >go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be? >better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations?? >So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually research?? >? >? >I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send >it? >to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb,? >packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip.? >? >The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot you? >took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. I? >don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have? >then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and >that? >technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence >the? >attendance of the French Consul.? >? >? >All the best? >? >Terry Herbert? > DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109,? > Australia? >? >? >-----Original Message-----? >From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf? >Of John and June Vigor? >Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM? >To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)? >Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton? >? >? >? >All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were? >living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right? >next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we? >were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of? >fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton? >was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall.? >? >It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of? >renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were? >there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband? >had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy? >northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend? >about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is >in? >one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above >the? >hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a? >nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working? >out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town? >while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there,? >though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd? >probably think hard about selling.? >? >Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to? >be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to? >miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so? >violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen.? >? >He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the? >British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and? >undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him.? >? >Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would? >have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp!? >? >Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. >That's? >50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska.? >Sheesh, don't get me started.? >? >John Vigor? >? >The S:t Helena Mailing List? >To unsubscribe please send a email to:? >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? >? >? >? >The S:t Helena Mailing List? >To unsubscribe please send a email to:? >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? >? >__________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________? >? >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.? >http://www.eset.com? >? >? >? >The S:t Helena Mailing List? >To unsubscribe please send a email to:? >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? ? _________________________________________________________________? Live Search, for accurate results! http://www.live.nl? ? The S:t Helena Mailing List? To unsubscribe please send a email to:? list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/af0d761d/attachment-0001.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Tue May 29 23:01:46 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Tue May 29 23:02:28 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <20070529191228.A1432BE8B6@poscpt0h01.cpt.saa.co.za> Message-ID: <8C9704BB40E0DD0-DC8-8C3B@mblk-r16.sysops.aol.com> Did she get any? -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Mussell To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 1:10 pm Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Heyyyyyyyyy - I resent that !!!!!! ;-)))) Not all south africans are arrogant, that's too much of a generalisation LOL I am one (south african) we're all nice unassuming quiet people here * evil grin * Kind regards Cindy -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John and June Vigor Sent: 29 May 2007 19:12 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Terry, I had to translate an awful lot of scientific gobbledygook in my 30 years as a newspaperman and just reading the snippet you sent us set off the warning signals in my brain. As I said, I haven't read the thesis and I'm probably incapable of understanding it anyway, but there are assumptions in the sample piece you sent that would have me very worried about the Dutch pair's research. For example, what does this mean, exactly: "But at the same time, the increased exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in the Saints' spatial identities." Is a plane-load of tourists going to give Saints a better idea of how big the world is outside their island than, say, a visiting cruise ship with 1,500 passengers? The implication here is that Saints aren't taught geography in school, that they are insular, naive, and closed-minded. I think that's an insult. I met a man on the waterfront who knew the names of all the Union-Castle liners and Safmarine liners that had called at St. Helena on their regular runs since 1936. He remembered details about the Warwick Castle, on which I once worked my passage from Durban to London, and the Edinburgh Castle, on which I traveled as a passenger. And there are many others like him. The Saints travel to Ascension and work with Americans. They travel to the Falklands and probably realize South America is just over the horizon. They mix with people from all over the world. They get medical care in Cape Town. They watch television from overseas that depicts happenings in many foreign countries. They have a war memorial at the seaside with the names of Saints who died in foreign fields. They have a monument in the town gardens that celebrates the island's large role in breaking up the African slave trade. They used to live cheek by jowl with soldiers from all over Britain and of course most of them know what country the red, white, and blue flag outside Longwood represents. Their spatial identity is not restricted to one rock in the middle of the ocean. And a second example: "Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which meant they did not have the right of abode in the UK. That's not entirely accurate. The inhabitants of St. Helena were granted full British citizenship in 1659. It was Maggie Thatcher who arbitrarily and illegally suspended their citizenship rights for a few years and demoted them to second-class citizens via an immigration law that Britons passed when they were scared stiff that a flood of refugees from Hong Kong would descend upon them. Thanks to the sterling efforts of Saints like Basil George, their full citizenship was restored in 2002. If the premise of the Dutch thesis is that Saints have limited contact with the outside world, that is true only in the physical sense, but not in the mental sense that their ability to visualize space outside the island is impaired. They constantly think beyond the island. In fact, there's hardly an island Saint who can't tell you where the RMS is at any given moment. They avidly follow her every move from country to country. Oh, and Terry, you're right about South Africans. I'm not one, but I lived among them for many years, and they are arrogant. That's because they're over-achievers. They have a lot to be arrogant about. Does anyone remember where the world's first heart transplant operation took place? Cheers, John Vigor The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/5ec0455b/attachment.htm From jvigor at earthlink.net Tue May 29 23:04:26 2007 From: jvigor at earthlink.net (John and June Vigor) Date: Tue May 29 23:04:02 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <20070529191228.A1432BE8B6@poscpt0h01.cpt.saa.co.za> Message-ID: <000601c7a234$f285c2c0$6903f204@fmk4n> Ja Cindy, maar jy weet wat hulle se: Diepe water, stille grond, onder draai die duiwel rond. Tjiers, John V. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Mussell" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:10 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > Heyyyyyyyyy - I resent that !!!!!! ;-)))) > > Not all south africans are arrogant, that's too much of a generalisation LOL > > I am one (south african) we're all nice unassuming quiet people here * evil > grin * > > Kind regards > Cindy > From takkies at mighty.co.za Tue May 29 23:28:11 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Tue May 29 23:32:50 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of SaintHelena - Ma References: Message-ID: <000001c7a238$da3baa00$0200a8c0@dad> Hello Maarten, Just to say thanks to you and Dani?l for making your very interesting thesis available and for the enjoyable read it's provided! It took me two hours of skim-reading... and I can't wait to begin reading it through properly this time. Both of you have provided invaluable knowledge and unearthed some very interesting facts that would have normally taken me much longer to learn about. I must add, you've done very well in terms of making it an easily readable publication too! Hats-off to your social skills as well - it's clear you both have a knack for it. All the very best for your future plans... perhaps you'll consider writing a comparitive thesis of the Island in say 10 years time? Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: "maarten hogenstijn" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:03 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of SaintHelena - Ma > Hi all, > > Wow, some interest again for the Master's thesis that Dani?l and I did > together in 2002. > I still read this list on Saint Helena from time to time and just caught > op un your discussion. It is good to hear that some of you find in > interesting. For the others: I hope you want to read it before commenting > on it too much. > > For your convenience, I have temporarily put it on my own server, where > you can download it. > You can access it at www.hogenstijn.nl/helena > > It is about 6,5 MB, like John said. > I will remove it again after a week or two. > There is no problem with copyrights if you download a copy for yourself. > Please do not start printing and distributing it widely. When we did our > thesis, a small number of books was printed. We have long run out of them. > Three books should be on Saint Helena: one in the library, one in the > Governor's office (he requested a copy) and one with Basil George, who > helped us a lot when we were there. > > We'd be interested to hear your comments. After publishing the thesis, we > have presented a paper on it at a geographer's conference in London, which > finally led to the publication of an article in the scientific journal > Tijdschrift voor Sociale en Economische Geografie (TESG). Despite the very > Dutch title, this is an English-language scientific journal. You might be > able to find it if you have access to a university library. Details: > > Hogenstijn, M., & Middelkoop, D.P. van (2005). Saint Helena: Citizenship > and spatial identities on a remote island. TESG, 96(1), 96-104. > > After the Saint Helena project, we moved on and Daniel and I are now doing > a joint Ph.D project on an entirely different subject (although still in > geography). > > We think the language in the thesis is not too scientific. We tried to > draw some scientific conclusions, but also to write about our experiences > there. > > Hope you enjoy your read > > greeting from the Netherlands, > > Maarten > >>From: "John Turner" >>Reply-To: John@burghhouse.com,"All about St. Helena - The Island in the >>South Atlantic(Eng)" >>To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" >> >>Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint >>Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the >>Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " >>Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:42:36 -0000 >> >>If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the >>authors'' >>permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. >> >>The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically >>requests it (direct to me - not via list). >> >>I also have a synopsis (257Kb). >> >>JT >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf >>Of Terry Herbert >>Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 >>To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' >>Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton >> >>John and all, >> >>You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family >>occupying >>Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the >>years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of >>times >>a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and >>their >>daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a >>Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in >>discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a >>choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, >>Australia not being 'edgy' enough. >> >>To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on >>the >>way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen >>some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading >>for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition >>to >>the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading >>it. >> >>There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first >>was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third >>visit >>to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the >>publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you >>published anything about your six months on the island that we can access? >>I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant >>as >>you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did >>you >>ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens >>of >>Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - >>the >>Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know >>there >>is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during >>your >>stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the >>introduction >>as to why they did the research: >> >> Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from >>life on the European 'mainland', which is our background. One thing that >>will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living >>on >>saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and >>thus >>Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of >>their life within a small, closed community. >> >>The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St. >>Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island >>to >>determine their spatial identity. Their island is a "little whole of >>humanity", all facilities have to be present on this small island and the >>entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial >>scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is >>limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV >>and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside >>world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain >>has >>a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British >>identity. >> >>But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are >>now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it >>to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent, >>and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could >>bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the >>increased >>exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in >>the Saints' spatial identities. >>Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very >>recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which >>meant >>they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British >>citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. >>Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The >>celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life >>of >>Saints expressed. >> >>An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the >>interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide >>to >>go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be >>better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? >>So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually >>research? >> >> >>I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send >>it >>to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, >>packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. >> >>The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot >>you >>took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. >>I >>don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have >>then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and >>that >>technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence >>the >>attendance of the French Consul. >> >> >>All the best >> >>Terry Herbert >> DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, >> Australia >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf >>Of John and June Vigor >>Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM >>To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) >>Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton >> >> >> >>All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I >>were >>living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right >>next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we >>were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of >>fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le >>Breton >>was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. >> >>It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of >>renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we >>were >>there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her >>husband >>had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy >>northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would >>spend >>about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is >>in >>one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above >>the >>hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a >>nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't >>working >>out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town >>while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were >>there, >>though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd >>probably think hard about selling. >> >>Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to >>be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to >>miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so >>violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. >> >>He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the >>British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and >>undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. >> >>Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he >>would >>have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! >> >>Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. >>That's >>50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to >>Alaska. >>Sheesh, don't get me started. >> >>John Vigor >> >>The S:t Helena Mailing List >>To unsubscribe please send a email to: >>list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >> >> >>The S:t Helena Mailing List >>To unsubscribe please send a email to: >>list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >>__________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ >> >>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >>http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >>The S:t Helena Mailing List >>To unsubscribe please send a email to: >>list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Live Search, for accurate results! http://www.live.nl > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: > 269.8.1/822 - Release Date: 2007/05/28 11:40 AM > From takkies at mighty.co.za Tue May 29 23:44:55 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Tue May 29 23:59:54 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of SaintHelena - Ma References: <8C9704B97A19CB0-DC8-8C32@mblk-r16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002d01c7a23a$9a2976c0$0200a8c0@dad> Porter, the man has kindly given us a link to download the thesis at www.hogenstijn.nl/helena - believe me, it's WELL worth the download and read. Here's a table of contents: SPATIAL IDENTITIES OF THE CITIZENS OF SAINT HELENA TABLE OF CONTENTS Chapter 1 Introduction 5 1.1 Where? ............ 5 1.2 Why? ............... 5 1.3 Central question .............................................................................................................................. 6 Chapter 2 Theoretical framework ............................................................................................................... 8 2.1 Insularity ......... 8 2.1.1 Insularity and economy .............................................................................................................. 8 2.1.2 Insularity and peripherality......................................................................................................... 9 2.1.3 Insularity and social structure................................................................................................... 10 2.2 Scale .............. 11 2.2.1 Hierarchy of scales ................................................................................................................... 12 2.2.2 Scale as size, level and relation ................................................................................................ 13 2.3 Spatial identity .............................................................................................................................. 14 2.3.1 Social ide 14 2.3.2 Territorialisation of identity ..................................................................................................... 15 2.3.3 Scale and spatial identities........................................................................................................ 15 2.3.4 National identity ....................................................................................................................... 17 2.3.5 Home ........ 19 Part I: Saint Helena now .... 21 Chapter 3 Saint Helena in the wider world ............................................................................................... 22 3.1 The historical position of Saint Helena ......................................................................................... 22 3.1.1 Discovery and early exploration............................................................................................... 22 3.1.2 East India Company ................................................................................................................. 23 3.1.3 Napoleon Bonaparte ................................................................................................................. 26 3.1.4 Crown dependency ................................................................................................................... 28 3.1.5 Conclusion 32 3.2 Saint Helena?s current political position ....................................................................................... 32 3.2.1 The last colonies....................................................................................................................... 33 3.2.2 Colonial Saint Helena............................................................................................................... 35 3.3 Saint Helena?s economic place in the wider world ....................................................................... 36 3.3.1 Historical legacy....................................................................................................................... 37 3.3.2 Aid recipient ............................................................................................................................. 39 3.3.3 Contributions to the global economy........................................................................................ 40 3.3.4 MIRAB..... 45 3.4 Conclusion .... 47 Chapter 4 Saint Helena Island................................................................................................................... 49 4.1 Landscape...... 49 4.1.1 Geology .... 49 4.1.2 Physical Geography.................................................................................................................. 50 4.1.3 Climate ..... 51 4.1.4 Flora ......... 52 4.1.5 Fauna ........ 53 4.1.6 Land(scape) as resource ........................................................................................................... 54 4.2 Population ..... 58 4.3 Social structu 61 4.3.1 Personal experience.................................................................................................................. 61 4.3.2 Family life 63 3 4.3.3 Religion .... 66 4.3.4 Education.. 67 4.3.5 Other social issues .................................................................................................................... 70 4.3.6 Resourcefulness vs. dependency .............................................................................................. 72 4.4 Local economic structure .............................................................................................................. 73 4.4.1 Large percentage of the workforce offshore............................................................................. 74 4.4.2 Large public sector, small private sector .................................................................................. 78 4.4.3 Small mar 80 4.4.4 Lack of commercial bank ......................................................................................................... 81 4.4.5 Lack of entrepreneurship.......................................................................................................... 82 4.4.6 Conclusion 83 4.5 Political structure .......................................................................................................................... 83 4.6 Conclusion .... 85 Chapter 5 Regional differentiation............................................................................................................ 87 5.1 Town and country ......................................................................................................................... 87 5.2 Districts ......... 88 5.2.1 Jamestown 89 5.2.2 Half Tree Hollow...................................................................................................................... 91 5.2.3 Saint Paul? 93 5.2.4 Blue Hill ... 94 5.2.5 Sandy Bay 96 5.2.6 Levelwood 97 5.2.7 Longwood. 98 5.2.8 Alarm F 100 5.2.9 Differences ............................................................................................................................. 101 5.3 Decline of differences ................................................................................................................. 102 Chapter 6 Saints? spatial identities.......................................................................................................... 104 6.1 What makes a Saint? ................................................................................................................... 104 6.1.1 Ethnic background.................................................................................................................. 105 6.1.2 Britishness .............................................................................................................................. 106 6.1.3 Physical aspects of British identity......................................................................................... 108 6.1.4 Saint Helenian identity ........................................................................................................... 109 6.1.5 Putting things into perspective ............................................................................................... 112 6.2 Saints? identity in a theoretical context ....................................................................................... 112 Part II: Saint Helena?s future .......................................................................................................................... 116 Chapter 7 Citizenship and constitutional development........................................................................... 117 7.1 Early settlement and citizenship.................................................................................................. 117 7.2 The Citizenship Commission ...................................................................................................... 118 7.2.1 The Yellow book .................................................................................................................... 118 7.2.2 The Red Book......................................................................................................................... 120 7.2.3 The Blue Book........................................................................................................................ 121 7.2.4 The White Paper..................................................................................................................... 122 7.2.5 British Overseas Territories Bill............................................................................................. 124 7.3 The consequences of the return of British citizenship................................................................. 125 7.3.1 Migration to Britain................................................................................................................ 125 7.3.2 Britishness .............................................................................................................................. 126 7.4 Constitutional development......................................................................................................... 127 7.4.1 Constitutional Commission .................................................................................................... 128 7.4.2 Ministerial system .................................................................................................................. 128 7.4.3 The Governor ......................................................................................................................... 129 7.5 The relationship with Ascension Island ...................................................................................... 132 7.5.1 Dependency relations ............................................................................................................. 136 7.5.2 The impact of changes on Ascension ..................................................................................... 137 7.6 Conclusion .. 138 Chapter 8 Access..... 139 4 8.1 Access to St Helena in the past ................................................................................................... 139 8.1.1 Union Castle Line................................................................................................................... 139 8.1.2 The first R.M.S. St Helena ..................................................................................................... 139 8.2 Current access: The R.M.S. St Helena ........................................................................................ 140 8.2.1 Passengers .............................................................................................................................. 142 8.2.2 Freight .... 143 8.2.3 Rescheduling the RMS........................................................................................................... 144 8.2.4 Cruise ships and Yachts.......................................................................................................... 145 8.3 Communications ......................................................................................................................... 146 8.4 Air Access ... 148 8.4.1 The referendum on access ...................................................................................................... 149 8.5 Shelco.......... 150 8.5.1 The airport .............................................................................................................................. 152 8.5.2 St Helena Airways.................................................................................................................. 155 8.5.3 The hotel and leisure facilities................................................................................................ 156 8.5.4 Conclusi 158 8.6 A Government owned airport...................................................................................................... 159 8.7 Continued sea-access only .......................................................................................................... 161 8.8 Alternative ideas for Access........................................................................................................ 162 8.9 Economic impact of future access............................................................................................... 163 8.9.1 Economic impact of air access ............................................................................................... 165 8.9.2 Economic impact of continued sea access only...................................................................... 167 8.10 Social impact of future access ..................................................................................................... 169 8.10.1 Social impact of future air access ...................................................................................... 170 8.10.2 Social impact of future sea access only ............................................................................. 172 8.11 Environmental impact of future access ....................................................................................... 172 8.11.1 The Built environment....................................................................................................... 173 8.11.2 The natural environment.................................................................................................... 173 8.12 Conclusion .. 174 Chapter 9 Changing spatial identities ..................................................................................................... 175 9.1 Saint Helena in 2020 ................................................................................................................... 175 9.2 Ideas from Prince Andrew School pupils.................................................................................... 177 9.3 Changing spatial identities .......................................................................................................... 179 Chapter 10 Epilogue . 181 Chapter 11 Summary 184 Chapter 12 Acknowledgements ................................................................................................................ 186 Appendices......................... 187 Appendix A. Map of Saint Helena .......................................................................................................... 188 Appendix B. Process and Methodology.................................................................................................. 189 Appendix C. List of figures..................................................................................................................... 193 Appendix D. List of Tables ..................................................................................................................... 195 Appendix E. Abbreviations used ............................................................................................................ 196 Appendix F. Population Pyramids.......................................................................................................... 197 Appendix G. Interview with authors in Saint Helena Herald.................................................................. 199 Appendix H. Chronological list of ?official? interviews conducted ....................................................... 200 Appendix I. Saint Helena 2020- posters from P.A.S. ................................................................................. 201 Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of SaintHelena - Ma Can you detail the thesis? -----Original Message----- From: maarten hogenstijn To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 1:03 pm Subject: RE: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Ma Hi all, Wow, some interest again for the Master's thesis that Dani?l and I did together in 2002. I still read this list on Saint Helena from time to time and just caught op un your discussion. It is good to hear that some of you find in interesting. For the others: I hope you want to read it before commenting on it too much. For your convenience, I have temporarily put it on my own server, where you can download it. You can access it at www.hogenstijn.nl/helena It is about 6,5 MB, like John said. I will remove it again after a week or two. There is no problem with copyrights if you download a copy for yourself. Please do not start printing and distributing it widely. When we did our thesis, a small number of books was printed. We have long run out of them. Three books should be on Saint Helena: one in the library, one in the Governor's office (he requested a copy) and one with Basil George, who helped us a lot when we were there. We'd be interested to hear your comments. After publishing the thesis, we have presented a paper on it at a geographer's conference in London, which finally led to the publication of an article in the scientific journal Tijdschrift voor Sociale en Economische Geografie (TESG). Despite the very Dutch title, this is an English-language scientific journal. You might be able to find it if you have access to a university library. Details: Hogenstijn, M., & Middelkoop, D.P. van (2005). Saint Helena: Citizenship and spatial identities on a remote island. TESG, 96(1), 96-104. After the Saint Helena project, we moved on and Daniel and I are now doing a joint Ph.D project on an entirely different subject (although still in geography). We think the language in the thesis is not too scientific. We tried to draw some scientific conclusions, but also to write about our experiences there. Hope you enjoy your read greeting from the Netherlands, Maarten >From: "John Turner" >Reply-To: John@burghhouse.com,"All about St. Helena - The Island in the >South Atlantic(Eng)" >To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" > >Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint >Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the >Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " >Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:42:36 -0000 > >If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the >authors'' >permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. > >The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically >requests it (direct to me - not via list). > >I also have a synopsis (257Kb). > >JT > >-----Original Message----- >From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf >Of Terry Herbert >Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 >To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' >Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > >John and all, > >You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family >occupying >Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the >years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of times >a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and >their >daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a >Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in >discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a >choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, >Australia not being 'edgy' enough. > >To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on the >way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen >some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading >for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition >to >the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading >it. > >There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first >was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third visit >to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the >publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you >published anything about your six months on the island that we can access? >I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant as >you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did you >ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of >Saint Helena - Master?s thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht ? the >Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know >there >is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during >your >stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the introduction >as to why they did the research: > > Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from >life on the European ?mainland?, which is our background. One thing that >will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living on >saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and >thus >Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of >their life within a small, closed community. > >The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St. >Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island to >determine their spatial identity. Their island is a ?little whole of >humanity?, all facilities have to be present on this small island and the >entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial >scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is >limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV >and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside >world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain has >a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British >identity. > >But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are >now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it >to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent, >and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could >bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the increased >exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in >the Saints? spatial identities. >Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very >recently Saints were citizens of ?British Overseas territories?, which >meant >they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British >citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. >Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The >celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life >of >Saints expressed. > >An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the >interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide to >go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be >better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? >So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually research? > > >I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send >it >to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, >packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. > >The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot you >took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. I >don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have >then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and >that >technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence >the >attendance of the French Consul. > > >All the best > >Terry Herbert > DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, > Australia > > >-----Original Message----- >From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf >Of John and June Vigor >Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM >To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) >Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > >All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were >living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right >next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we >were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of >fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton >was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. > >It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of >renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were >there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband >had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy >northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend >about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is >in >one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above >the >hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a >nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working >out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town >while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, >though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd >probably think hard about selling. > >Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to >be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to >miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so >violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. > >He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the >British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and >undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. > >Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would >have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! > >Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. >That's >50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. >Sheesh, don't get me started. > >John Vigor > >The S:t Helena Mailing List >To unsubscribe please send a email to: >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > >The S:t Helena Mailing List >To unsubscribe please send a email to: >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > >__________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com > > > >The S:t Helena Mailing List >To unsubscribe please send a email to: >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. _________________________________________________________________ Live Search, for accurate results! http://www.live.nl The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.1/822 - Release Date: 2007/05/28 11:40 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/75b31fdf/attachment-0001.htm From vmawson at iprimus.com.au Wed May 30 00:16:43 2007 From: vmawson at iprimus.com.au (Vivienne Mawson) Date: Wed May 30 00:24:13 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> <002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> Message-ID: June The bibliography of St Helena is huge, though most of the recent ones seem to be mainly travel narratives. They all give potted histories of the island, based on Gosse chiefly, without giving 20th or 21st century updates or corrections to errors in Gosse and others (Julia Blackburn's book is particularly poor in this respect). Possibly the publishers of the St Helena Catalogue (www.shlcatalogue.net; email bfred@rmplc.co.uk) could advise you. The French government was given the site of Napoleon's tomb and Longwood in Queen Victoria's day, when Napoleon's body was sent to France, so your comment ("I still think the reason a French consul is stationed there is because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the place. And I'm convinced that fear is well founded.") is rather off the mark. It is, however, true that few (if any) attempts have been made by the (British) government to preserve the buildings and military structures. And although there is a law to prevent people exporting antique furniture and other artefacts that were purchased on the island, it has been ignored where the "exporter" has been a senior British government official. The then-Governor also allowed all except a few plates and bits and pieces from the wreck of the Witteleeuw to be removed and sold for a huge sum in Europe. Similarly, your earlier comment about citizenship (alas, I trashed it by mistake) was rather sloppy. St Helena was not technically given citizenship on the date you give ("citizenship" of a country rather than a town was a much later notion). The charter is interesting reading. When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their right to live in England, unless they had English-born parents or grandparents. Maggie T felt obliged to restore the right to the Faulkland islanders (embarrassing to fight a war for people who could not actually reside in Britain, though in fact most of the islanders did qualify under the exclusion!). And, yes, she refused to extend the right to the Saints and other small Overseas Territories). Regaining it was a long and hard-fought battle (and a fascinating story in itself). It was led by the Bishop of St Helena and strongly supported by the Friends of St Helena (in England) and, of course, by Saints and dedicated ex-pats. I was pleased to hear you enjoyed your stay at Cambrian. Molly's Flat is named after my mother, who lived there for the last years of her life. I hope you were there for the mango season! I have never tasted such beautiful mangoes--even in Australia (which, unlike NZ and the USA, has never banned visits from nuclear-powered ships). Regards, Vivienne Vivienne Mawson (Dr) Tasmania 7022 On 29/05/2007, at 3:14 PM, John and June Vigor wrote: > > Terry, thank you for adding "Small Boat to Freedom" to the RMS ship's > library. Funnily enough, I took along two hardback copies when I > caught the > RMS from England to St. Helena last year. My intention was to donate > one to > the RMS in order to add some class and erudition to the library, but > when I > saw the surprising quality and quantity of the books it contained I > felt > quite outclassed and slunk away without making my contribution. In the > end, > I left both copies on the island. > > As for a book about St. Helena, the problem is that I can't imagine who > would publish it. I can't think of a single American publisher or > literary > agent who would be interested. The travel narrative genre is almost > extinct > here except for a few well-known names like Bryson and Raban. If there > were > any chance of getting it published, I could produce a wonderfully > insightful > book about my stay in St. Helena with surprising alacrity. > > I don't remember now if I knew during my second visit that Longwood > and its > garden was actually French property, but if I didn't I certainly found > out > later, and I still think the reason a French consul is stationed there > is > because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the place. And I'm > convinced that fear is well founded. > > And incidentally, are you actually claiming that Australians are > sensitive > enough to care who takes cheap shots at the French? I thought it was an > antipodean trait to thumb noses at the French, and deny them port > access for > their nuclear submarines in retaliation for their wicked sinking of > Greenpeace's Rainbow Warrior--or is it just the gutsy Kiwis I'm > thinking of? > > I hadn't seen the paper about the "spatial identities" of the Saints. > I'm > sure it is of great interest to a few academics, but I bet the vast > majority > of Saints don't even know they have a spatial identity. It may even be > insulting to suggest that their spatial horizon is limited to the > edges of > the island. Saints fought for Britain in both World Wars as well as > the > Falklands falderal. They've had regular contact with Europe, Africa, > and the > Far East since 1502. I think that unlike President Paul Kruger, they > have > known for quite some time that the world is round, not flat. > > All the best, > > John Vigor > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > From flywellretreat at galileosa.co.za Wed May 30 01:09:42 2007 From: flywellretreat at galileosa.co.za (Cindy Mussell) Date: Wed May 30 01:12:31 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <000601c7a234$f285c2c0$6903f204@fmk4n> Message-ID: <20070529231148.D3B91BE8B6@poscpt0h01.cpt.saa.co.za> Lol, definitely - that's what makes life so much fun LMFHO -----Original Message----- From: John and June Vigor [mailto:jvigor@earthlink.net] Sent: 29 May 2007 23:04 To: flywellretreat@galileosa.co.za; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Ja Cindy, maar jy weet wat hulle se: Diepe water, stille grond, onder draai die duiwel rond. Tjiers, John V. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Mussell" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:10 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > Heyyyyyyyyy - I resent that !!!!!! ;-)))) > > Not all south africans are arrogant, that's too much of a > generalisation LOL > > I am one (south african) we're all nice unassuming quiet people here > * evil > grin * > > Kind regards > Cindy > From prporter1 at aim.com Wed May 30 01:29:27 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Wed May 30 01:30:07 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <20070529231148.D3B91BE8B6@poscpt0h01.cpt.saa.co.za> Message-ID: <8C9706055AED4E7-1454-8EDE@mblk-r23.sysops.aol.com> Ja vol! -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Mussell To: 'John and June Vigor' ; 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 5:09 pm Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Lol, definitely - that's what makes life so much fun LMFHO -----Original Message----- From: John and June Vigor [mailto:jvigor@earthlink.net] Sent: 29 May 2007 23:04 To: flywellretreat@galileosa.co.za; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Ja Cindy, maar jy weet wat hulle se: Diepe water, stille grond, onder draai die duiwel rond. Tjiers, John V. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Mussell" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:10 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > Heyyyyyyyyy - I resent that !!!!!! ;-)))) > > Not all south africans are arrogant, that's too much of a > generalisation LOL > > I am one (south african) we're all nice unassuming quiet people here > * evil > grin * > > Kind regards > Cindy > The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/14249155/attachment.htm From John at BurghHouse.com Wed May 30 10:55:44 2007 From: John at BurghHouse.com (John Turner) Date: Wed May 30 11:01:11 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <001101c7a214$812e76a0$fa02f304@fmk4n> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> <001101c7a214$812e76a0$fa02f304@fmk4n> Message-ID: <000001c7a298$58743d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45> All Saints are insular just like all Americans are loud and brash, all British people are cold and uninviting, all Muslims are terrorists, all Chinese people look alike and all people who generalise about others make fools of themselves. :-) JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John and June Vigor Sent: 29 May 2007 17:12 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Terry, I had to translate an awful lot of scientific gobbledygook in my 30 years as a newspaperman and just reading the snippet you sent us set off the warning signals in my brain. As I said, I haven't read the thesis and I'm probably incapable of understanding it anyway, but there are assumptions in the sample piece you sent that would have me very worried about the Dutch pair's research. For example, what does this mean, exactly: "But at the same time, the increased exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in the Saints' spatial identities." Is a plane-load of tourists going to give Saints a better idea of how big the world is outside their island than, say, a visiting cruise ship with 1,500 passengers? The implication here is that Saints aren't taught geography in school, that they are insular, naive, and closed-minded. I think that's an insult. I met a man on the waterfront who knew the names of all the Union-Castle liners and Safmarine liners that had called at St. Helena on their regular runs since 1936. He remembered details about the Warwick Castle, on which I once worked my passage from Durban to London, and the Edinburgh Castle, on which I traveled as a passenger. And there are many others like him. The Saints travel to Ascension and work with Americans. They travel to the Falklands and probably realize South America is just over the horizon. They mix with people from all over the world. They get medical care in Cape Town. They watch television from overseas that depicts happenings in many foreign countries. They have a war memorial at the seaside with the names of Saints who died in foreign fields. They have a monument in the town gardens that celebrates the island's large role in breaking up the African slave trade. They used to live cheek by jowl with soldiers from all over Britain and of course most of them know what country the red, white, and blue flag outside Longwood represents. Their spatial identity is not restricted to one rock in the middle of the ocean. And a second example: "Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which meant they did not have the right of abode in the UK. That's not entirely accurate. The inhabitants of St. Helena were granted full British citizenship in 1659. It was Maggie Thatcher who arbitrarily and illegally suspended their citizenship rights for a few years and demoted them to second-class citizens via an immigration law that Britons passed when they were scared stiff that a flood of refugees from Hong Kong would descend upon them. Thanks to the sterling efforts of Saints like Basil George, their full citizenship was restored in 2002. If the premise of the Dutch thesis is that Saints have limited contact with the outside world, that is true only in the physical sense, but not in the mental sense that their ability to visualize space outside the island is impaired. They constantly think beyond the island. In fact, there's hardly an island Saint who can't tell you where the RMS is at any given moment. They avidly follow her every move from country to country. Oh, and Terry, you're right about South Africans. I'm not one, but I lived among them for many years, and they are arrogant. That's because they're over-achievers. They have a lot to be arrogant about. Does anyone remember where the world's first heart transplant operation took place? Cheers, John Vigor The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2295 (20070529) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From robson at iinet.net.au Wed May 30 15:50:48 2007 From: robson at iinet.net.au (A.G.Robertson) Date: Wed May 30 15:51:18 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Ma In-Reply-To: References: <000901c7a1de$158c5b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070530213502.02541998@iinet.net.au> Thank you very much for putting your thesis on your own server where it is easy to download thereby avoiding ISP limitations on email size. Printing it covers 202 pages so it will be read by this interested observer without having to resort to printed pages. Alastair Robertson 30 May 07. At 03:03 AM 30/05/2007, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Wow, some interest again for the Master's thesis >that Dani?l and I did together in 2002. >I still read this list on Saint Helena from time >to time and just caught op un your discussion. >It is good to hear that some of you find in >interesting. For the others: I hope you want to >read it before commenting on it too much. > >For your convenience, I have temporarily put it >on my own server, where you can download it. >You can access it at www.hogenstijn.nl/helena > >It is about 6,5 MB, like John said. >I will remove it again after a week or two. From robson at iinet.net.au Wed May 30 16:09:31 2007 From: robson at iinet.net.au (A.G.Robertson) Date: Wed May 30 16:11:23 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> <002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070530215834.02670518@iinet.net.au> At 06:16 AM 30/05/2007, Vivienne Mawson (Dr) wrote: > "When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their > right to live in England, unless they had English-born parents or > grandparents." This statement would read better as When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their right to live in Britain, unless they had British-born parents or grandparents. England is England. Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Alastair Robertson. > From john at burghhouse.com Wed May 30 17:20:56 2007 From: john at burghhouse.com (John Turner) Date: Wed May 30 17:25:59 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070530215834.02670518@iinet.net.au> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> <7.0.1.0.2.20070530215834.02670518@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <000901c7a2ce$220edab0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Better still the statement could have been omitted, as it is inaccurate (or, at best, misleading). The bill to remove the rights of Commonwealth Citizens was introduced on 24/02/1971, to come into effect the following January. Britain only began negotiating to join the 'EEC' (now, EU) on 21/06/1971, and joined as at 1/1/1973. So the two are apparently unrelated. JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of A.G.Robertson Sent: 30 May 2007 14:10 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton At 06:16 AM 30/05/2007, Vivienne Mawson (Dr) wrote: > "When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their > right to live in England, unless they had English-born parents or > grandparents." This statement would read better as When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their right to live in Britain, unless they had British-born parents or grandparents. England is England. Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Alastair Robertson. > The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2298 (20070530) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From prporter1 at aim.com Wed May 30 18:55:00 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Wed May 30 18:55:39 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <000901c7a2ce$220edab0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> <7.0.1.0.2.20070530215834.02670518@iinet.net.au> <000901c7a2ce$220edab0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <8C970F26514749F-B30-1163@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> Yes, Misleading. -----Original Message----- From: John Turner To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Wed, 30 May 2007 9:20 am Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Better still the statement could have been omitted, as it is inaccurate (or, at best, misleading). The bill to remove the rights of Commonwealth Citizens was introduced on 24/02/1971, to come into effect the following January. Britain only began negotiating to join the 'EEC' (now, EU) on 21/06/1971, and joined as at 1/1/1973. So the two are apparently unrelated. JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of A.G.Robertson Sent: 30 May 2007 14:10 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton At 06:16 AM 30/05/2007, Vivienne Mawson (Dr) wrote: > "When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their > right to live in England, unless they had English-born parents or > grandparents." This statement would read better as When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their right to live in Britain, unless they had British-born parents or grandparents. England is England. Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Alastair Robertson. > The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2298 (20070530) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/52e78644/attachment.htm From thomas at flyingkettle.com Thu May 31 03:12:48 2007 From: thomas at flyingkettle.com (Thomas Goodey) Date: Wed May 30 19:13:28 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] [SPAM] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <8C970F26514749F-B30-1163@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000901c7a2ce$220edab0$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <8C970F26514749F-B30-1163@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <465E2F20.21064.E1868E@thomas.flyingkettle.com> On Wed, 30 May 2007, John Turner wrote: > The bill to remove the rights of Commonwealth Citizens was introduced > on 24/02/1971, to come into effect the following January. Britain only > began negotiating to join the 'EEC' (now, EU) on 21/06/1971, and > joined as at 1/1/1973. > > So the two are apparently unrelated. I am sorry, but the last statement above seems to me naive in the extreme. A more realistic scenario would be that depriving the remnant peoples of the Empire of their citizenship was a 'clearing of the decks' in advance of the EEC entry negotiations. I don't myself clearly remember the sequence of events at the time, but that is exactly the kind of thing Heath was doing to help get the UK in. I confidently expect he is getting his punishment now! Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** From prporter1 at aim.com Wed May 30 20:04:20 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Wed May 30 20:05:10 2007 Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <465E2F20.21064.E1868E@thomas.flyingkettle.com> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000901c7a2ce$220edab0$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <8C970F26514749F-B30-1163@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> <465E2F20.21064.E1868E@thomas.flyingkettle.com> Message-ID: <8C970FC14A15EAC-12AC-B0A8@WEBMAIL-DF13.sysops.aol.com> I agree. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Goodey To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Wed, 30 May 2007 7:12 pm Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton On Wed, 30 May 2007, John Turner wrote: > The bill to remove the rights of Commonwealth Citizens was introduced > on 24/02/1971, to come into effect the following January. Britain only > began negotiating to join the 'EEC' (now, EU) on 21/06/1971, and > joined as at 1/1/1973. > > So the two are apparently unrelated. I am sorry, but the last statement above seems to me naive in the extreme. A more realistic scenario would be that depriving the remnant peoples of the Empire of their citizenship was a 'clearing of the decks' in advance of the EEC entry negotiations. I don't myself clearly remember the sequence of events at the time, but that is exactly the kind of thing Heath was doing to help get the UK in. I confidently expect he is getting his punishment now! Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/f925fd11/attachment.htm From chessman at paradise.net.nz Wed May 30 21:42:55 2007 From: chessman at paradise.net.nz (Noel Davenhill) Date: Wed May 30 21:43:34 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps Message-ID: Hi there, I am preparing a feature article in a UK magazine and want to find out something about the usage of higher value postage stamps in St Helena. As there is no airport in St Helena yet, what postal usage do stamps of ?2 and ?3 have? Has anybody any experience of using or seen these denominations actually used for postage, other than for collectors? I would very much appreciate any feedback on this subject. Many thanks, Noel Davenhill No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/819 - Release Date: 26/05/2007 10:47 a.m. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/b5730b49/attachment.htm From jvigor at earthlink.net Wed May 30 22:34:39 2007 From: jvigor at earthlink.net (John and June Vigor) Date: Wed May 30 22:34:13 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps References: Message-ID: <001701c7a2f9$f3ab6180$9b96f204@fmk4n> Noel, surely they're used for parcels. Or doesn't that count as "postage?" You can phone general enquiries at the Jamestown post office at country code 290, number 2652, or the postmistress herself at 2629. John Vigor ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Davenhill To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 12:42 PM Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps Hi there, I am preparing a feature article in a UK magazine and want to find out something about the usage of higher value postage stamps in St Helena. As there is no airport in St Helena yet, what postal usage do stamps of ?2 and ?3 have? Has anybody any experience of using or seen these denominations actually used for postage, other than for collectors? I would very much appreciate any feedback on this subject. Many thanks, Noel Davenhill No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/819 - Release Date: 26/05/2007 10:47 a.m. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/4b90f454/attachment.htm From BILL-LOCKMAN at woh.rr.com Wed May 30 22:50:27 2007 From: BILL-LOCKMAN at woh.rr.com (BILL-LOCKMAN@woh.rr.com) Date: Wed May 30 22:51:05 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I HAVE BEEN COLLECTING THE STAMPS OF ST. HRLENA FOR SIME TIME AND HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY OF THE HIGH VALUES USED OTHER THAN ON COVERS FOR COLLECTORS. IN THE LAST 20 OR SO YEARS ST. HELENA HAS ISSUED A GREAT NUMBER OF NEW ISSUES TO THE POINT THAT AS OF 2004 THE ST. HELENA POST OFFICE HAD ISSUED ABOUT 900 DIFFERENT STAMPS SINCE THE 1860'S ALL FOR A POPULATION OF SOMEWHAT LESS THAN 4000 SOULS. IT SEEMS THAT THE PURPOSE OF THE POUND VALUES IS THE ENRICHMENT OF THE TREASURY. AS SUCH I WILL NOT COLLECT ANY ITEMS ISSUED AFTER 1970. ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Davenhill Date: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:56 pm Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps To: list@sthelena.se > Hi there, > > I am preparing a feature article in a UK magazine and want to find out > something about the usage of higher value postage stamps in St > Helena. As > there is no airport in St Helena yet, what postal usage do stamps > of ?2 and > ?3 have? Has anybody any experience of using or seen these > denominationsactually used for postage, other than for collectors? > I would very much > appreciate any feedback on this subject. Many thanks, Noel > Davenhill > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/819 - Release Date: > 26/05/200710:47 a.m. > > > From vmawson at iprimus.com.au Wed May 30 23:47:13 2007 From: vmawson at iprimus.com.au (Vivienne Mawson) Date: Wed May 30 23:54:39 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070530215834.02670518@iinet.net.au> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> <002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> <7.0.1.0.2.20070530215834.02670518@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <26f586904bc731570669f4fd8f1f5c23@iprimus.com.au> Ouch! My apologies for my careless error! Vivienne Mawson (Dr) On 31/05/2007, at 12:09 AM, A.G.Robertson wrote: > At 06:16 AM 30/05/2007, Vivienne Mawson (Dr) wrote: >> "When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their >> right to live in England, unless they had English-born parents or >> grandparents." This statement would read better as > > When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their right > to live in Britain, unless they had British-born parents or > grandparents. > > England is England. Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland > and Northern Ireland. > Alastair > Robertson. >> > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > From ahs at st-helena.org Thu May 31 00:02:12 2007 From: ahs at st-helena.org (A.H. Schulenburg) Date: Thu May 31 00:02:03 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps References: Message-ID: <009d01c7a306$33718f40$0301a8c0@TIME2003> They are used on parcels. There is an airmail option via Ascension Island, which is more expensive then surface all the way. Regards, Alexander ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Davenhill To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:42 PM Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps Hi there, I am preparing a feature article in a UK magazine and want to find out something about the usage of higher value postage stamps in St Helena. As there is no airport in St Helena yet, what postal usage do stamps of ?2 and ?3 have? Has anybody any experience of using or seen these denominations actually used for postage, other than for collectors? I would very much appreciate any feedback on this subject. Many thanks, Noel Davenhill No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/819 - Release Date: 26/05/2007 10:47 a.m. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/6e5b4d39/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Thu May 31 00:13:27 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Thu May 31 00:14:01 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <26f586904bc731570669f4fd8f1f5c23@iprimus.com.au> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> <002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> <7.0.1.0.2.20070530215834.02670518@iinet.net.au> <26f586904bc731570669f4fd8f1f5c23@iprimus.com.au> Message-ID: <8C9711EE1E183AF-106C-CC77@webmail-me14.sysops.aol.com> Sure! -----Original Message----- From: Vivienne Mawson To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Wed, 30 May 2007 3:47 pm Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Ouch! My apologies for my careless error!? Vivienne Mawson (Dr)? ? On 31/05/2007, at 12:09 AM, A.G.Robertson wrote:? ? > At 06:16 AM 30/05/2007, Vivienne Mawson (Dr) wrote:? >> "When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their >> right to live in England, unless they had English-born parents or >> grandparents." This statement would read better as? >? > When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their right > to live in Britain, unless they had British-born parents or > grandparents.? >? > England is England. Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland > and Northern Ireland.? > Alastair > Robertson.? >>? >? > The S:t Helena Mailing List? > To unsubscribe please send a email to:? > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? >? The S:t Helena Mailing List? To unsubscribe please send a email to:? list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/043b6c9c/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Thu May 31 00:13:42 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Thu May 31 00:14:12 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps In-Reply-To: <009d01c7a306$33718f40$0301a8c0@TIME2003> References: <009d01c7a306$33718f40$0301a8c0@TIME2003> Message-ID: <8C9711EEA886FEA-106C-CC7C@webmail-me14.sysops.aol.com> Is that all? -----Original Message----- From: A.H. Schulenburg To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Wed, 30 May 2007 4:02 pm Subject: Re: [STHELENA] postage stamps They are used on parcels.? There is an airmail option via Ascension Island, which is more expensive then surface all the way. ? Regards, Alexander ? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Davenhill To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:42 PM Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps Hi there, I am preparing a feature article in a UK magazine and want to find out something about the usage of higher value postage stamps in St Helena.? As there is no airport in St Helena yet, ?what postal usage do stamps of ?2 and ?3 have?? Has anybody any experience of using or seen these denominations actually used for postage, other than for collectors?? I would very much appreciate any feedback on this subject.? Many thanks,? Noel Davenhill ?? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/819 - Release Date: 26/05/2007 10:47 a.m. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/fe2aecda/attachment.htm From jvigor at earthlink.net Thu May 31 02:32:23 2007 From: jvigor at earthlink.net (John and June Vigor) Date: Thu May 31 02:31:53 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> Message-ID: <000c01c7a31b$294e72c0$df0af204@fmk4n> Hi Vivienne: Yes, we saw the inside of Molly's Flat at Cambrian House. Our friend Edward Thorpe lives there now, and told us about your mother. It's a lovely place, and I imagine she must have been very happy there. I know the land at Longwood is permanently in French hands. The reason I surmised they keep a consul on it is because nobody else would care if it fell to bits. After Napoleon died, neither the Brits nor the Saints did any maintenance work on it. It literally fell to bits. The only original part of Longwood from Napoleon's time is the front steps, as you obviously must know already. The rest has been reconstructed. Yet strangely, very few French visitors make the pilgrimage to the island. Cheers, John Vigor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vivienne Mawson" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > June > The bibliography of St Helena is huge, though most of the recent ones > seem to be mainly travel narratives. They all give potted histories of > the island, based on Gosse chiefly, without giving 20th or 21st century > updates or corrections to errors in Gosse and others (Julia Blackburn's > book is particularly poor in this respect). Possibly the publishers of > the St Helena Catalogue (www.shlcatalogue.net; email bfred@rmplc.co.uk) > could advise you. > > The French government was given the site of Napoleon's tomb and > Longwood in Queen Victoria's day, when Napoleon's body was sent to > France, so your comment ("I still think the reason a French consul is > stationed there is because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the > place. And I'm convinced that fear is well founded.") is rather off the > mark. It is, however, true that few (if any) attempts have been made by > the (British) government to preserve the buildings and military > structures. And although there is a law to prevent people exporting > antique furniture and other artefacts that were purchased on the > island, it has been ignored where the "exporter" has been a senior > British government official. The then-Governor also allowed all except > a few plates and bits and pieces from the wreck of the Witteleeuw to be > removed and sold for a huge sum in Europe. > > Similarly, your earlier comment about citizenship (alas, I trashed it > by mistake) was rather sloppy. St Helena was not technically given > citizenship on the date you give ("citizenship" of a country rather > than a town was a much later notion). The charter is interesting > reading. When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost > their right to live in England, unless they had English-born parents or > grandparents. Maggie T felt obliged to restore the right to the > Faulkland islanders (embarrassing to fight a war for people who could > not actually reside in Britain, though in fact most of the islanders > did qualify under the exclusion!). And, yes, she refused to extend the > right to the Saints and other small Overseas Territories). Regaining it > was a long and hard-fought battle (and a fascinating story in itself). > It was led by the Bishop of St Helena and strongly supported by the > Friends of St Helena (in England) and, of course, by Saints and > dedicated ex-pats. > > I was pleased to hear you enjoyed your stay at Cambrian. Molly's Flat > is named after my mother, who lived there for the last years of her > life. I hope you were there for the mango season! I have never tasted > such beautiful mangoes--even in Australia (which, unlike NZ and the > USA, has never banned visits from nuclear-powered ships). > Regards, Vivienne > > Vivienne Mawson (Dr) > Tasmania 7022 > > On 29/05/2007, at 3:14 PM, John and June Vigor wrote: > > > > > Terry, thank you for adding "Small Boat to Freedom" to the RMS ship's > > library. Funnily enough, I took along two hardback copies when I > > caught the > > RMS from England to St. Helena last year. My intention was to donate > > one to > > the RMS in order to add some class and erudition to the library, but > > when I > > saw the surprising quality and quantity of the books it contained I > > felt > > quite outclassed and slunk away without making my contribution. In the > > end, > > I left both copies on the island. > > > > As for a book about St. Helena, the problem is that I can't imagine who > > would publish it. I can't think of a single American publisher or > > literary > > agent who would be interested. The travel narrative genre is almost > > extinct > > here except for a few well-known names like Bryson and Raban. If there > > were > > any chance of getting it published, I could produce a wonderfully > > insightful > > book about my stay in St. Helena with surprising alacrity. > > > > I don't remember now if I knew during my second visit that Longwood > > and its > > garden was actually French property, but if I didn't I certainly found > > out > > later, and I still think the reason a French consul is stationed there > > is > > because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the place. And I'm > > convinced that fear is well founded. > > > > And incidentally, are you actually claiming that Australians are > > sensitive > > enough to care who takes cheap shots at the French? I thought it was an > > antipodean trait to thumb noses at the French, and deny them port > > access for > > their nuclear submarines in retaliation for their wicked sinking of > > Greenpeace's Rainbow Warrior--or is it just the gutsy Kiwis I'm > > thinking of? > > > > I hadn't seen the paper about the "spatial identities" of the Saints. > > I'm > > sure it is of great interest to a few academics, but I bet the vast > > majority > > of Saints don't even know they have a spatial identity. It may even be > > insulting to suggest that their spatial horizon is limited to the > > edges of > > the island. Saints fought for Britain in both World Wars as well as > > the > > Falklands falderal. They've had regular contact with Europe, Africa, > > and the > > Far East since 1502. I think that unlike President Paul Kruger, they > > have > > known for quite some time that the world is round, not flat. > > > > All the best, > > > > John Vigor > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > From cagaden at iprimus.com.au Thu May 31 02:49:43 2007 From: cagaden at iprimus.com.au (Caroline Gaden) Date: Thu May 31 02:50:13 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Longwood References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> <000c01c7a31b$294e72c0$df0af204@fmk4n> Message-ID: <004e01c7a31d$94ba39c0$6401a8c0@Caroline> But those of us related to the Balcombe family would like to do so! Maybe in the next couple of years when retirement becomes a reality!! Cheers Caroline Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and June Vigor" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > Hi Vivienne: > > Yes, we saw the inside of Molly's Flat at Cambrian House. Our friend > Edward > Thorpe lives there now, and told us about your mother. It's a lovely > place, > and I imagine she must have been very happy there. > > I know the land at Longwood is permanently in French hands. The reason I > surmised they keep a consul on it is because nobody else would care if it > fell to bits. After Napoleon died, neither the Brits nor the Saints did > any > maintenance work on it. It literally fell to bits. The only original part > of Longwood from Napoleon's time is the front steps, as you obviously must > know already. The rest has been reconstructed. Yet strangely, very few > French visitors make the pilgrimage to the island. > > Cheers, > > John Vigor > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vivienne Mawson" > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:16 PM > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > > >> June >> The bibliography of St Helena is huge, though most of the recent ones >> seem to be mainly travel narratives. They all give potted histories of >> the island, based on Gosse chiefly, without giving 20th or 21st century >> updates or corrections to errors in Gosse and others (Julia Blackburn's >> book is particularly poor in this respect). Possibly the publishers of >> the St Helena Catalogue (www.shlcatalogue.net; email bfred@rmplc.co.uk) >> could advise you. >> >> The French government was given the site of Napoleon's tomb and >> Longwood in Queen Victoria's day, when Napoleon's body was sent to >> France, so your comment ("I still think the reason a French consul is >> stationed there is because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the >> place. And I'm convinced that fear is well founded.") is rather off the >> mark. It is, however, true that few (if any) attempts have been made by >> the (British) government to preserve the buildings and military >> structures. And although there is a law to prevent people exporting >> antique furniture and other artefacts that were purchased on the >> island, it has been ignored where the "exporter" has been a senior >> British government official. The then-Governor also allowed all except >> a few plates and bits and pieces from the wreck of the Witteleeuw to be >> removed and sold for a huge sum in Europe. >> >> Similarly, your earlier comment about citizenship (alas, I trashed it >> by mistake) was rather sloppy. St Helena was not technically given >> citizenship on the date you give ("citizenship" of a country rather >> than a town was a much later notion). The charter is interesting >> reading. When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost >> their right to live in England, unless they had English-born parents or >> grandparents. Maggie T felt obliged to restore the right to the >> Faulkland islanders (embarrassing to fight a war for people who could >> not actually reside in Britain, though in fact most of the islanders >> did qualify under the exclusion!). And, yes, she refused to extend the >> right to the Saints and other small Overseas Territories). Regaining it >> was a long and hard-fought battle (and a fascinating story in itself). >> It was led by the Bishop of St Helena and strongly supported by the >> Friends of St Helena (in England) and, of course, by Saints and >> dedicated ex-pats. >> >> I was pleased to hear you enjoyed your stay at Cambrian. Molly's Flat >> is named after my mother, who lived there for the last years of her >> life. I hope you were there for the mango season! I have never tasted >> such beautiful mangoes--even in Australia (which, unlike NZ and the >> USA, has never banned visits from nuclear-powered ships). >> Regards, Vivienne >> >> Vivienne Mawson (Dr) >> Tasmania 7022 >> >> On 29/05/2007, at 3:14 PM, John and June Vigor wrote: >> >> > >> > Terry, thank you for adding "Small Boat to Freedom" to the RMS ship's >> > library. Funnily enough, I took along two hardback copies when I >> > caught the >> > RMS from England to St. Helena last year. My intention was to donate >> > one to >> > the RMS in order to add some class and erudition to the library, but >> > when I >> > saw the surprising quality and quantity of the books it contained I >> > felt >> > quite outclassed and slunk away without making my contribution. In the >> > end, >> > I left both copies on the island. >> > >> > As for a book about St. Helena, the problem is that I can't imagine who >> > would publish it. I can't think of a single American publisher or >> > literary >> > agent who would be interested. The travel narrative genre is almost >> > extinct >> > here except for a few well-known names like Bryson and Raban. If there >> > were >> > any chance of getting it published, I could produce a wonderfully >> > insightful >> > book about my stay in St. Helena with surprising alacrity. >> > >> > I don't remember now if I knew during my second visit that Longwood >> > and its >> > garden was actually French property, but if I didn't I certainly found >> > out >> > later, and I still think the reason a French consul is stationed there >> > is >> > because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the place. And I'm >> > convinced that fear is well founded. >> > >> > And incidentally, are you actually claiming that Australians are >> > sensitive >> > enough to care who takes cheap shots at the French? I thought it was an >> > antipodean trait to thumb noses at the French, and deny them port >> > access for >> > their nuclear submarines in retaliation for their wicked sinking of >> > Greenpeace's Rainbow Warrior--or is it just the gutsy Kiwis I'm >> > thinking of? >> > >> > I hadn't seen the paper about the "spatial identities" of the Saints. >> > I'm >> > sure it is of great interest to a few academics, but I bet the vast >> > majority >> > of Saints don't even know they have a spatial identity. It may even be >> > insulting to suggest that their spatial horizon is limited to the >> > edges of >> > the island. Saints fought for Britain in both World Wars as well as >> > the >> > Falklands falderal. They've had regular contact with Europe, Africa, >> > and the >> > Far East since 1502. I think that unlike President Paul Kruger, they >> > have >> > known for quite some time that the world is round, not flat. >> > >> > All the best, >> > >> > John Vigor >> > >> > The S:t Helena Mailing List >> > To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> > >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 30/05/2007 > 3:03 PM > From prporter1 at aim.com Thu May 31 03:20:18 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Thu May 31 03:20:48 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <000c01c7a31b$294e72c0$df0af204@fmk4n> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> <000c01c7a31b$294e72c0$df0af204@fmk4n> Message-ID: <8C97138FC2209C3-17F4-C866@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> How was it? -----Original Message----- From: John and June Vigor To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Wed, 30 May 2007 6:32 pm Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Hi Vivienne: Yes, we saw the inside of Molly's Flat at Cambrian House. Our friend Edward Thorpe lives there now, and told us about your mother. It's a lovely place, and I imagine she must have been very happy there. I know the land at Longwood is permanently in French hands. The reason I surmised they keep a consul on it is because nobody else would care if it fell to bits. After Napoleon died, neither the Brits nor the Saints did any maintenance work on it. It literally fell to bits. The only original part of Longwood from Napoleon's time is the front steps, as you obviously must know already. The rest has been reconstructed. Yet strangely, very few French visitors make the pilgrimage to the island. Cheers, John Vigor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vivienne Mawson" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > June > The bibliography of St Helena is huge, though most of the recent ones > seem to be mainly travel narratives. They all give potted histories of > the island, based on Gosse chiefly, without giving 20th or 21st century > updates or corrections to errors in Gosse and others (Julia Blackburn's > book is particularly poor in this respect). Possibly the publishers of > the St Helena Catalogue (www.shlcatalogue.net; email bfred@rmplc.co.uk) > could advise you. > > The French government was given the site of Napoleon's tomb and > Longwood in Queen Victoria's day, when Napoleon's body was sent to > France, so your comment ("I still think the reason a French consul is > stationed there is because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the > place. And I'm convinced that fear is well founded.") is rather off the > mark. It is, however, true that few (if any) attempts have been made by > the (British) government to preserve the buildings and military > structures. And although there is a law to prevent people exporting > antique furniture and other artefacts that were purchased on the > island, it has been ignored where the "exporter" has been a senior > British government official. The then-Governor also allowed all except > a few plates and bits and pieces from the wreck of the Witteleeuw to be > removed and sold for a huge sum in Europe. > > Similarly, your earlier comment about citizenship (alas, I trashed it > by mistake) was rather sloppy. St Helena was not technically given > citizenship on the date you give ("citizenship" of a country rather > than a town was a much later notion). The charter is interesting > reading. When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost > their right to live in England, unless they had English-born parents or > grandparents. Maggie T felt obliged to restore the right to the > Faulkland islanders (embarrassing to fight a war for people who could > not actually reside in Britain, though in fact most of the islanders > did qualify under the exclusion!). And, yes, she refused to extend the > right to the Saints and other small Overseas Territories). Regaining it > was a long and hard-fought battle (and a fascinating story in itself). > It was led by the Bishop of St Helena and strongly supported by the > Friends of St Helena (in England) and, of course, by Saints and > dedicated ex-pats. > > I was pleased to hear you enjoyed your stay at Cambrian. Molly's Flat > is named after my mother, who lived there for the last years of her > life. I hope you were there for the mango season! I have never tasted > such beautiful mangoes--even in Australia (which, unlike NZ and the > USA, has never banned visits from nuclear-powered ships). > Regards, Vivienne > > Vivienne Mawson (Dr) > Tasmania 7022 > > On 29/05/2007, at 3:14 PM, John and June Vigor wrote: > > > > > Terry, thank you for adding "Small Boat to Freedom" to the RMS ship's > > library. Funnily enough, I took along two hardback copies when I > > caught the > > RMS from England to St. Helena last year. My intention was to donate > > one to > > the RMS in order to add some class and erudition to the library, but > > when I > > saw the surprising quality and quantity of the books it contained I > > felt > > quite outclassed and slunk away without making my contribution. In the > > end, > > I left both copies on the island. > > > > As for a book about St. Helena, the problem is that I can't imagine who > > would publish it. I can't think of a single American publisher or > > literary > > agent who would be interested. The travel narrative genre is almost > > extinct > > here except for a few well-known names like Bryson and Raban. If there > > were > > any chance of getting it published, I could produce a wonderfully > > insightful > > book about my stay in St. Helena with surprising alacrity. > > > > I don't remember now if I knew during my second visit that Longwood > > and its > > garden was actually French property, but if I didn't I certainly found > > out > > later, and I still think the reason a French consul is stationed there > > is > > because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the place. And I'm > > convinced that fear is well founded. > > > > And incidentally, are you actually claiming that Australians are > > sensitive > > enough to care who takes cheap shots at the French? I thought it was an > > antipodean trait to thumb noses at the French, and deny them port > > access for > > their nuclear submarines in retaliation for their wicked sinking of > > Greenpeace's Rainbow Warrior--or is it just the gutsy Kiwis I'm > > thinking of? > > > > I hadn't seen the paper about the "spatial identities" of the Saints. > > I'm > > sure it is of great interest to a few academics, but I bet the vast > > majority > > of Saints don't even know they have a spatial identity. It may even be > > insulting to suggest that their spatial horizon is limited to the > > edges of > > the island. Saints fought for Britain in both World Wars as well as > > the > > Falklands falderal. They've had regular contact with Europe, Africa, > > and the > > Far East since 1502. I think that unlike President Paul Kruger, they > > have > > known for quite some time that the world is round, not flat. > > > > All the best, > > > > John Vigor > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/fefa2f5f/attachment-0001.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Thu May 31 03:20:47 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Thu May 31 03:21:20 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Longwood In-Reply-To: <004e01c7a31d$94ba39c0$6401a8c0@Caroline> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> <000c01c7a31b$294e72c0$df0af204@fmk4n> <004e01c7a31d$94ba39c0$6401a8c0@Caroline> Message-ID: <8C971390D61B107-17F4-C86A@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> And even those of us who aren't! -----Original Message----- From: Caroline Gaden To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Wed, 30 May 2007 6:49 pm Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Longwood But those of us related to the Balcombe family would like to do so!? Maybe in the next couple of years when retirement becomes a reality!!? Cheers? Caroline? Australia.? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and June Vigor" ? To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" ? Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 10:32 AM? Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton? ? > Hi Vivienne:? >? > Yes, we saw the inside of Molly's Flat at Cambrian House. Our friend > Edward? > Thorpe lives there now, and told us about your mother. It's a lovely > place,? > and I imagine she must have been very happy there.? >? > I know the land at Longwood is permanently in French hands. The reason I? > surmised they keep a consul on it is because nobody else would care if it? > fell to bits. After Napoleon died, neither the Brits nor the Saints did > any? > maintenance work on it. It literally fell to bits. The only original part? > of Longwood from Napoleon's time is the front steps, as you obviously must? > know already. The rest has been reconstructed. Yet strangely, very few? > French visitors make the pilgrimage to the island.? >? > Cheers,? >? > John Vigor? >? >? > ----- Original Message -----? > From: "Vivienne Mawson" ? > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)"? > ? > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:16 PM? > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton? >? >? >> June? >> The bibliography of St Helena is huge, though most of the recent ones? >> seem to be mainly travel narratives. They all give potted histories of? >> the island, based on Gosse chiefly, without giving 20th or 21st century? >> updates or corrections to errors in Gosse and others (Julia Blackburn's? >> book is particularly poor in this respect). Possibly the publishers of? >> the St Helena Catalogue (www.shlcatalogue.net; email bfred@rmplc.co.uk)? >> could advise you.? >>? >> The French government was given the site of Napoleon's tomb and? >> Longwood in Queen Victoria's day, when Napoleon's body was sent to? >> France, so your comment ("I still think the reason a French consul is? >> stationed there is because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the? >> place. And I'm convinced that fear is well founded.") is rather off the? >> mark. It is, however, true that few (if any) attempts have been made by? >> the (British) government to preserve the buildings and military? >> structures. And although there is a law to prevent people exporting? >> antique furniture and other artefacts that were purchased on the? >> island, it has been ignored where the "exporter" has been a senior? >> British government official. The then-Governor also allowed all except? >> a few plates and bits and pieces from the wreck of the Witteleeuw to be? >> removed and sold for a huge sum in Europe.? >>? >> Similarly, your earlier comment about citizenship (alas, I trashed it? >> by mistake) was rather sloppy. St Helena was not technically given? >> citizenship on the date you give ("citizenship" of a country rather? >> than a town was a much later notion). The charter is interesting? >> reading. When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost? >> their right to live in England, unless they had English-born parents or? >> grandparents. Maggie T felt obliged to restore the right to the? >> Faulkland islanders (embarrassing to fight a war for people who could? >> not actually reside in Britain, though in fact most of the islanders? >> did qualify under the exclusion!). And, yes, she refused to extend the? >> right to the Saints and other small Overseas Territories). Regaining it? >> was a long and hard-fought battle (and a fascinating story in itself).? >> It was led by the Bishop of St Helena and strongly supported by the? >> Friends of St Helena (in England) and, of course, by Saints and? >> dedicated ex-pats.? >>? >> I was pleased to hear you enjoyed your stay at Cambrian. Molly's Flat? >> is named after my mother, who lived there for the last years of her? >> life. I hope you were there for the mango season! I have never tasted? >> such beautiful mangoes--even in Australia (which, unlike NZ and the? >> USA, has never banned visits from nuclear-powered ships).? >> Regards, Vivienne? >>? >> Vivienne Mawson (Dr)? >> Tasmania 7022? >>? >> On 29/05/2007, at 3:14 PM, John and June Vigor wrote:? >>? >> >? >> > Terry, thank you for adding "Small Boat to Freedom" to the RMS ship's? >> > library. Funnily enough, I took along two hardback copies when I? >> > caught the? >> > RMS from England to St. Helena last year. My intention was to donate? >> > one to? >> > the RMS in order to add some class and erudition to the library, but? >> > when I? >> > saw the surprising quality and quantity of the books it contained I? >> > felt? >> > quite outclassed and slunk away without making my contribution. In the? >> > end,? >> > I left both copies on the island.? >> >? >> > As for a book about St. Helena, the problem is that I can't imagine who? >> > would publish it. I can't think of a single American publisher or? >> > literary? >> > agent who would be interested. The travel narrative genre is almost? >> > extinct? >> > here except for a few well-known names like Bryson and Raban. If there? >> > were? >> > any chance of getting it published, I could produce a wonderfully? >> > insightful? >> > book about my stay in St. Helena with surprising alacrity.? >> >? >> > I don't remember now if I knew during my second visit that Longwood? >> > and its? >> > garden was actually French property, but if I didn't I certainly found? >> > out? >> > later, and I still think the reason a French consul is stationed there? >> > is? >> > because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the place. And I'm? >> > convinced that fear is well founded.? >> >? >> > And incidentally, are you actually claiming that Australians are? >> > sensitive? >> > enough to care who takes cheap shots at the French? I thought it was an? >> > antipodean trait to thumb noses at the French, and deny them port? >> > access for? >> > their nuclear submarines in retaliation for their wicked sinking of? >> > Greenpeace's Rainbow Warrior--or is it just the gutsy Kiwis I'm? >> > thinking of?? >> >? >> > I hadn't seen the paper about the "spatial identities" of the Saints.? >> > I'm? >> > sure it is of great interest to a few academics, but I bet the vast? >> > majority? >> > of Saints don't even know they have a spatial identity. It may even be? >> > insulting to suggest that their spatial horizon is limited to the? >> > edges of? >> > the island. Saints fought for Britain in both World Wars as well as? >> > the? >> > Falklands falderal. They've had regular contact with Europe, Africa,? >> > and the? >> > Far East since 1502. I think that unlike President Paul Kruger, they? >> > have? >> > known for quite some time that the world is round, not flat.? >> >? >> > All the best,? >> >? >> > John Vigor? >> >? >> > The S:t Helena Mailing List? >> > To unsubscribe please send a email to:? >> > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? >> >? >> The S:t Helena Mailing List? >> To unsubscribe please send a email to:? >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? >>? >? > The S:t Helena Mailing List? > To unsubscribe please send a email to:? > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? >? >? > -- > No virus found in this incoming message.? > Checked by AVG Free Edition.? > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 30/05/2007 > 3:03 PM? > The S:t Helena Mailing List? To unsubscribe please send a email to:? list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/710fdeb8/attachment.htm From jvigor at earthlink.net Thu May 31 06:39:37 2007 From: jvigor at earthlink.net (John and June Vigor) Date: Thu May 31 06:43:33 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Longwood References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n><000c01c7a31b$294e72c0$df0af204@fmk4n> <004e01c7a31d$94ba39c0$6401a8c0@Caroline> Message-ID: <001101c7a33d$b49a6ba0$5903f204@fmk4n> Caroline, do you happen to know if Hollywood movie star Al Pacino actually made that film about Napoleon and young Betsy Balcombe? It was supposed to have been shot last year and shown at the Cannes Film Festival this spring, but I haven't seen any news about it. The working title was "The Monster of Longwood," I believe. Also, there is a beautiful painting of a young woman on the wall of The Pavilion on the old Balcombe estate but nobody could tell me who it was. I suspect it was Betsy, and wondered if you knew anything about it. Best wishes, John V. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caroline Gaden" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Longwood > But those of us related to the Balcombe family would like to do so! > Maybe in the next couple of years when retirement becomes a reality!! > Cheers > Caroline > Australia. From joocee at btopenworld.com Thu May 31 10:30:19 2007 From: joocee at btopenworld.com (JULIET COTTAM) Date: Thu May 31 10:30:54 2007 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BSTHELENA=5D_=22SAINTS_-_Spatial_identities_of_the_c?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?itizens_of_Saint_Helena_-_Master's__thesis_Human_Geography?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_University_of_Utrecht_-_the_Netherlands_By_Maarten_Hogens?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?tijn_and_Dani=EBl_van_Middelkoop_=22?= References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n><200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au> <000901c7a1de$158c5b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <003701c7a35d$f2353dd0$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> As my printer has been refuelled, I printed off the synopsis and having read it, found it very interesting - the 'spatial' concept still has me confused - why use this term ? looking through once more, the word is only used three times in the script - it is obvious that the proposed airport construction, and all that it will bring with it would upset the 'spaital indentities' of the folk of the island - the stay of 2.5 months, is that long enough? in the list of 26 interviews, it appears that they didn't interview the ordinary citizens of the island - just the governor, gov. officials etc. to me that does not seem to be a good cross section of the Saints. Just my thoughts for all they are worth, but it certainly was worth reading, if a trifle spurious in places. Thanks for sending it John - but I think I'll hold fire on the main document - could clutter up my hard disc. or if obtained on the island, weigh down the luggage !! Juliet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Turner" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " > If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the authors'' > permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. > > The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically > requests it (direct to me - not via list). > > I also have a synopsis (257Kb). > > JT > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf > Of Terry Herbert > Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 > To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' > Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > > John and all, > > You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family occupying > Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the > years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of times > a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and their > daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a > Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in > discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a > choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, > Australia not being 'edgy' enough. > > To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on the > way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen > some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading > for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition to > the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading > it. > > There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first > was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third visit > to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the > publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you > published anything about your six months on the island that we can access? > I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant as > you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did you > ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of > Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the > Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know there > is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during your > stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the introduction > as to why they did the research: > > Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from > life on the European 'mainland', which is our background. One thing that > will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living on > saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and thus > Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of > their life within a small, closed community. > > The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St. > Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island to > determine their spatial identity. Their island is a "little whole of > humanity", all facilities have to be present on this small island and the > entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial > scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is > limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV > and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside > world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain has > a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British > identity. > > But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are > now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it > to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent, > and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could > bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the increased > exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in > the Saints' spatial identities. > Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very > recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which meant > they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British > citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. > Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The > celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life of > Saints expressed. > > An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the > interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide to > go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be > better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? > So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually research? > > > I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send it > to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, > packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. > > The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot you > took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. I > don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have > then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and that > technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence the > attendance of the French Consul. > > > All the best > > Terry Herbert > DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, > Australia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf > Of John and June Vigor > Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM > To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > > All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were > living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right > next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we > were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of > fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton > was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. > > It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of > renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were > there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband > had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy > northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend > about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is in > one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above the > hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a > nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working > out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town > while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, > though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd > probably think hard about selling. > > Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to > be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to > miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so > violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. > > He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the > British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and > undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. > > Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would > have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! > > Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. That's > 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. > Sheesh, don't get me started. > > John Vigor > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > __________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From thomas at flyingkettle.com Thu May 31 18:44:36 2007 From: thomas at flyingkettle.com (Thomas Goodey) Date: Thu May 31 10:45:39 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] [SPAM] Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht In-Reply-To: <003701c7a35d$f2353dd0$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n>, <003701c7a35d$f2353dd0$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> Message-ID: <465F0984.16340.2C3FDD9@thomas.flyingkettle.com> On 31 May 2007 at 9:30, JULIET COTTAM wrote: > it is obvious that the proposed airport construction, and all > that it will bring with it would upset the 'spatial indentities' > of the folk of the island... This is a classic case of a document written by a BSing academic, a chartered member of the 'chattering classes'. > the stay of 2.5 months, is that long enough? I wonder who paid for it. The long-suffering taxpayers of Holland, I should think. Probably sponsored via the EU. Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** From manager at sainthelenabank.com Thu May 31 10:57:11 2007 From: manager at sainthelenabank.com (Manager, Bank of St. Helena) Date: Thu May 31 11:02:32 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009c01c7a361$b6d0f050$2d0b000a@shgbank45> I've passed the query to the Postmistress and will post (!) whatever reply I receive. I have never used any stamp larger than 10p, but I never send anything abroad personally and the bank pays for its postage by signing for it. JT John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Noel Davenhill Sent: 30 May 2007 19:43 To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps Hi there, I am preparing a feature article in a UK magazine and want to find out something about the usage of higher value postage stamps in St Helena. As there is no airport in St Helena yet, what postal usage do stamps of ?2 and ?3 have? Has anybody any experience of using or seen these denominations actually used for postage, other than for collectors? I would very much appreciate any feedback on this subject. Many thanks, Noel Davenhill __________ NOD32 2298 (20070530) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/819 - Release Date: 26/05/2007 10:47 a.m. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/4509b094/attachment.htm From manager at sainthelenabank.com Thu May 31 11:11:13 2007 From: manager at sainthelenabank.com (Manager, Bank of St. Helena) Date: Thu May 31 11:16:18 2007 Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <465E2F20.21064.E1868E@thomas.flyingkettle.com> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000901c7a2ce$220edab0$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <8C970F26514749F-B30-1163@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> <465E2F20.21064.E1868E@thomas.flyingkettle.com> Message-ID: <00a701c7a363$a691a0c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> I'm not sure this list is the appropriate place for debating Edward Heath, so I'll confine myself to observing that if he had the ability to deliver the complex plot that Thomas envisages he wouldn't have been kicked out of office by the coal miners. Now a direct question to Thomas: What does the quote in your email tag mean? It seems to come from a Sci-Fi comic. According to Wikipedia "The Lensman series is a serial science fiction space opera by E. E. Smith." and "Palain VII - An extremely cold planet and home world of Second Stage Lensman Nadreck." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lensman). JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Thomas Goodey Sent: 31 May 2007 01:13 To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton On Wed, 30 May 2007, John Turner wrote: > The bill to remove the rights of Commonwealth Citizens was introduced > on 24/02/1971, to come into effect the following January. Britain only > began negotiating to join the 'EEC' (now, EU) on 21/06/1971, and > joined as at 1/1/1973. > > So the two are apparently unrelated. I am sorry, but the last statement above seems to me naive in the extreme. A more realistic scenario would be that depriving the remnant peoples of the Empire of their citizenship was a 'clearing of the decks' in advance of the EEC entry negotiations. I don't myself clearly remember the sequence of events at the time, but that is exactly the kind of thing Heath was doing to help get the UK in. I confidently expect he is getting his punishment now! Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2298 (20070530) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From thomas at flyingkettle.com Thu May 31 19:26:23 2007 From: thomas at flyingkettle.com (Thomas Goodey) Date: Thu May 31 11:27:30 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] [SPAM] Citizenship deprivation... and a quote In-Reply-To: <00a701c7a363$a691a0c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <465E2F20.21064.E1868E@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <00a701c7a363$a691a0c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <465F134F.24953.2EA40D5@thomas.flyingkettle.com> On 31 May 2007 at 9:11, Manager, Bank of St. Helena wrote: > I'm not sure this list is the appropriate place for debating Edward > Heath.... But surely it is the absolutely appropriate place for discussing the deprivation in the early '70s of the people in the British Overseas Territories (including St. Helena) of their citizenship? (if anybody is interested in this historical injustice which has now been reversed) > Now a direct question to Thomas: What does the quote in your email tag > mean? It seems to come from a Sci-Fi comic. Not a comic. An SF classic. > According to Wikipedia "The Lensman series is a serial science > fiction space opera by E. E. Smith." and "Palain VII - An > extremely cold planet and home world of Second Stage Lensman > Nadreck." This is correct. I have always considered that the quote is a deeply philosophical remark, and (especially in my hot air and steam ballooning projects), if followed, is very helpful for focusing me on what should be the true objectives. I think it could easily have been said by Sherlock Holmes (well, put into his mouth by Conan Doyle). Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** From takkies at mighty.co.za Thu May 31 11:29:18 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Thu May 31 11:29:45 2007 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BSTHELENA=5D_=22SAINTS_-_Spatial_identities_of_the_c?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?itizens_of_Saint_Helena_-_Master's__thesis_Human_Geography?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_University_of_Utrecht_-_the_Netherlands_By_Maarten_Hogens?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?tijn_and_Dani=EBl_van_Middelkoop_=22?= References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n><200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><000901c7a1de$158c5b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <003701c7a35d$f2353dd0$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> Message-ID: <004301c7a366$2b2316a0$0200a8c0@dad> Hmm, Juliet... I just thought I'd let you know there are no fewer than 114 mentions of the word "spatial" in the thesis itself - excluding mentions in any headings. The term "spatial" is defined and explained very well and validifies the point of their research very well. There are also many occurrences where an interview is made with the ordinary citizen - in the street, including the pubs. I find it quite remarkable that they managed to cover so much information in the time they spent on the island - there's no doubt much of it was gathered off-Island as well. My opinion is that the thesis is worth the read for ANYONE interested in learning more about the Island... wow, and all that info is packed into a tiny file of only 6Mb! :-) Get your copy while it's fresh on the list! Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: "JULIET COTTAM" To: ; "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " > As my printer has been refuelled, I printed off the synopsis and having > read > it, found it very interesting - the 'spatial' concept still has me > confused - why use this term ? looking through once more, the word is only > used three times in the script - it is obvious that the proposed airport > construction, and all that it will bring with it would upset the 'spaital > indentities' of the folk of the island - the stay of 2.5 months, is that > long enough? in the list of 26 interviews, it appears that they didn't > interview the ordinary citizens of the island - just the governor, gov. > officials etc. to me that does not seem to be a good cross section of the > Saints. Just my thoughts for all they are worth, but it certainly was > worth > reading, if a trifle spurious in places. Thanks for sending it John - but > I > think I'll hold fire on the main document - could clutter up my hard disc. > or if obtained on the island, weigh down the luggage !! Juliet. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Turner" > To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:42 AM > Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint > Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the > Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " > > >> If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the > authors'' >> permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. >> >> The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically >> requests it (direct to me - not via list). >> >> I also have a synopsis (257Kb). >> >> JT >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On >> Behalf >> Of Terry Herbert >> Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 >> To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' >> Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton >> >> John and all, >> >> You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family > occupying >> Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the >> years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of > times >> a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and > their >> daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a >> Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in >> discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a >> choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, >> Australia not being 'edgy' enough. >> >> To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on > the >> way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen >> some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading >> for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition > to >> the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading >> it. >> >> There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The >> first >> was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third > visit >> to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the >> publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you >> published anything about your six months on the island that we can >> access? >> I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant > as >> you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did > you >> ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens > of >> Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - > the >> Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know > there >> is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during > your >> stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the > introduction >> as to why they did the research: >> >> Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from >> life on the European 'mainland', which is our background. One thing that >> will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living > on >> saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and > thus >> Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of >> their life within a small, closed community. >> >> The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the >> St. >> Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island > to >> determine their spatial identity. Their island is a "little whole of >> humanity", all facilities have to be present on this small island and the >> entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial >> scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is >> limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of >> TV >> and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside >> world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain > has >> a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British >> identity. >> >> But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there >> are >> now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting >> it >> to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid >> dependent, >> and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could >> bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the > increased >> exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes >> in >> the Saints' spatial identities. >> Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very >> recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which > meant >> they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of >> British >> citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. >> Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The >> celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life > of >> Saints expressed. >> >> An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the >> interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide > to >> go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be >> better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? >> So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually > research? >> >> >> I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send > it >> to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, >> packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. >> >> The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot > you >> took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. > I >> don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have >> then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and > that >> technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence > the >> attendance of the French Consul. >> >> >> All the best >> >> Terry Herbert >> DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, >> Australia >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On >> Behalf >> Of John and June Vigor >> Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM >> To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) >> Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton >> >> >> >> All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I > were >> living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right >> next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we >> were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of >> fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le > Breton >> was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. >> >> It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of >> renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we > were >> there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her > husband >> had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy >> northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would > spend >> about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is > in >> one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above > the >> hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of >> Jamestown--a >> nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't > working >> out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town >> while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were > there, >> though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd >> probably think hard about selling. >> >> Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough >> to >> be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to >> miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so >> violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. >> >> He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the >> British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and >> undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. >> >> Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he > would >> have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! >> >> Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. > That's >> 50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to > Alaska. >> Sheesh, don't get me started. >> >> John Vigor >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >> __________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 2007/05/30 > 03:03 PM > > From lgreenf at ktb.net Thu May 31 11:37:39 2007 From: lgreenf at ktb.net (Larry Greenfield) Date: Thu May 31 11:38:33 2007 Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa LeBreton References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000901c7a2ce$220edab0$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <8C970F26514749F-B30-1163@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com><465E2F20.21064.E1868E@thomas.flyingkettle.com> <00a701c7a363$a691a0c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <000d01c7a367$54bb52b0$6400a8c0@main> Personally, for taglines from obscure Sci-Fi sources, I always preferred "No matter where you go, there you are..." > Now a direct question to Thomas: What does the quote in your email tag > mean? However so as not to waste a post on an aside, a question I'd been wondering for a while: is the internet on St Helena still dreadfully slow? And do you know what it uses? (Satellite, or undersea cable?) I remember a few years ago being quite disappointed at how slow it was. I only mention this because other than email (for which speed doesn't matter so much), if faster internet were available, there would be a host of services available that Saints could use, such as internet phone calls, streaming audio and video, etc. Also, not completely unrelated, but I remember Gov Hollamby once telling me he thought it might be an interesting idea to set St Helena up as kind of an outsourcing call center (like India) if phone rates could be lowered... Larry From prporter1 at aim.com Thu May 31 11:51:08 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Thu May 31 11:51:47 2007 Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Citizenship deprivation... and a quote In-Reply-To: <465F134F.24953.2EA40D5@thomas.flyingkettle.com> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <465E2F20.21064.E1868E@thomas.flyingkettle.com>, <00a701c7a363$a691a0c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <465F134F.24953.2EA40D5@thomas.flyingkettle.com> Message-ID: <8C971805912A36F-1D88-68@mblk-d17.sysops.aol.com> Not really. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Goodey To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Thu, 31 May 2007 11:26 am Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Citizenship deprivation... and a quote On 31 May 2007 at 9:11, Manager, Bank of St. Helena wrote: > I'm not sure this list is the appropriate place for debating Edward > Heath.... But surely it is the absolutely appropriate place for discussing the deprivation in the early '70s of the people in the British Overseas Territories (including St. Helena) of their citizenship? (if anybody is interested in this historical injustice which has now been reversed) > Now a direct question to Thomas: What does the quote in your email tag > mean? It seems to come from a Sci-Fi comic. Not a comic. An SF classic. > According to Wikipedia "The Lensman series is a serial science > fiction space opera by E. E. Smith." and "Palain VII - An > extremely cold planet and home world of Second Stage Lensman > Nadreck." This is correct. I have always considered that the quote is a deeply philosophical remark, and (especially in my hot air and steam ballooning projects), if followed, is very helpful for focusing me on what should be the true objectives. I think it could easily have been said by Sherlock Holmes (well, put into his mouth by Conan Doyle). Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/8a8a0d85/attachment.htm From john at burghhouse.com Thu May 31 11:50:57 2007 From: john at burghhouse.com (John Turner) Date: Thu May 31 11:56:04 2007 Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Small Boat To Freedom was......VillaLeBreton In-Reply-To: <000d01c7a367$54bb52b0$6400a8c0@main> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000901c7a2ce$220edab0$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <8C970F26514749F-B30-1163@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com><465E2F20.21064.E1868E@thomas.flyingkettle.com><00a701c7a363$a691a0c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <000d01c7a367$54bb52b0$6400a8c0@main> Message-ID: <00c501c7a369$336c0800$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Internet speed is not really the issue - it's cost. A dial-up connection, which is what most people use, costs ?5/month standing fee plus 10p/minute online time (in normal business hours). A permanently-on leased line costs c?400/month. At those prices any internet-based business is a non-starter against competition from the likes of India and China. There are heaps of opportunities the Internet could offer to St.?Helena if an affordable connection could be made available. JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Larry Greenfield Sent: 31 May 2007 09:38 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng); thomas@flyingkettle.com Subject: Re: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Small Boat To Freedom was......VillaLeBreton Personally, for taglines from obscure Sci-Fi sources, I always preferred "No matter where you go, there you are..." > Now a direct question to Thomas: What does the quote in your email tag > mean? However so as not to waste a post on an aside, a question I'd been wondering for a while: is the internet on St Helena still dreadfully slow? And do you know what it uses? (Satellite, or undersea cable?) I remember a few years ago being quite disappointed at how slow it was. I only mention this because other than email (for which speed doesn't matter so much), if faster internet were available, there would be a host of services available that Saints could use, such as internet phone calls, streaming audio and video, etc. Also, not completely unrelated, but I remember Gov Hollamby once telling me he thought it might be an interesting idea to set St Helena up as kind of an outsourcing call center (like India) if phone rates could be lowered... Larry The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2300 (20070531) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From thomas at flyingkettle.com Thu May 31 20:11:36 2007 From: thomas at flyingkettle.com (Thomas Goodey) Date: Thu May 31 12:12:44 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] [SPAM] Internet business opportunities In-Reply-To: <00c501c7a369$336c0800$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000d01c7a367$54bb52b0$6400a8c0@main>, <00c501c7a369$336c0800$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <465F1DE8.11466.313A3EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com> On 31 May 2007 at 9:50, John Turner wrote: > A permanently-on leased line costs c. 400/month. What would the bandwidth be? How many subscribers at this price are there at the moment, actually? > At those prices any internet-based business is a non-starter... That's not necessarily true. After all, that's "only" 16 pounds a working day, if you work Saturdays. If there were, say, five people working in some kind of internet business, the overhead per worker would not be frightful, and would be more than compensated for (in terms of direct SH:UK competition) by the fact that salaries are much lower in SH than in the UK. But I doubt that one leased line would have enough bandwidth for five telephone conversations at once. Our hypothetical business couldn't be a full-time-talking type business like a call center. But it could be data entry of some kind, or programming. > against competition from the likes of India and China. In any case, direct competition against the Indians in many of these internet businesses would be impossible, because they are willing to work far too cheaply. > There are heaps of opportunities the Internet could offer to > St. Helena if an affordable connection could be made available. >From the above analysis, it seems to me that the cost of the connection wouldn't be enough to stop an internet business functioning from SH. Other factors might be, though. It does seem to me that SH, with no airport, and no cheap internet even in prospect, is the last holdout in the world against globalization. Well, you know what they say about people who lie down in front of juggernauts... Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** From takkies at mighty.co.za Thu May 31 12:21:52 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Thu May 31 12:22:16 2007 Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Master's thesis Human Geography University ofUtrecht References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n>, <003701c7a35d$f2353dd0$0201a8c0@HOME0E57978F5D> <465F0984.16340.2C3FDD9@thomas.flyingkettle.com> Message-ID: <004801c7a36d$82da5d20$0200a8c0@dad> Hi Thomas, (careful you don't become known for the latter part of your email addy, wahaha!) (I'm seriously just kidding you! - I really DO enjoy reading your input on this listing.) It's clear to me from the spurious comments I've read that the synopsis does not bring adequate justice to the body of the thesis. Believe me, the thesis itself will stand up against any "BSing academic" trying to achieve what they did - I challenge you to say that again once you've read it. I've only performed a skimmed-read at this stage and, as I mentioned earlier, can't wait to read it through properly. It's clear to me that there were many more months of research done in absence of being on the Island - or they would never have been able to gather the information they did. I feel that 2.5 months is more than enough for a thorough set of interviews. The sponsors are mentioned in Chapter 12 of the thesis - mainly: The Universiteit Utrecht - a Trajectum grant, and The Faculteit Ruimtelijke Wetenschappen... they go one to list about 15 more people who gave in kind along the way. I'll tell you something, if I had known about their thesis before they embarked to St.Helena, I would have gladly sponsored a film documentary even Attenborough would have been proud to produce... but not right now, my pennies are being poured into the raising of two wonderful teenage kids and major home alterations. Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Goodey" To: Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 6:44 PM Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Master's thesis Human Geography University ofUtrecht > On 31 May 2007 at 9:30, JULIET COTTAM wrote: > >> it is obvious that the proposed airport construction, and all >> that it will bring with it would upset the 'spatial indentities' >> of the folk of the island... > > This is a classic case of a document written by a BSing academic, a > chartered member of the 'chattering classes'. > >> the stay of 2.5 months, is that long enough? > > I wonder who paid for it. The long-suffering taxpayers of Holland, I > should think. Probably sponsored via the EU. > > Thomas Goodey > > ********************************* > The introduction of a multiplicity > of objectives into a problem not > only destroys its unity, but also > increases markedly both the > time necessary for, and the > actual personal danger involved > in, its solution. > ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII > ************************************** > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 2007/05/30 > 03:03 PM > > From thomas at flyingkettle.com Thu May 31 20:30:21 2007 From: thomas at flyingkettle.com (Thomas Goodey) Date: Thu May 31 12:31:27 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] [SPAM] Master's thesis Human Geography University ofUtrecht In-Reply-To: <004801c7a36d$82da5d20$0200a8c0@dad> References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n>, <004801c7a36d$82da5d20$0200a8c0@dad> Message-ID: <465F224D.20328.324D0C6@thomas.flyingkettle.com> On 31 May 2007 at 12:21, Rob G wrote: > Hi Thomas, (careful you don't become known for the latter part of your > email addy, wahaha!) ??? for "com", or for "flyingkettle", or for "kettle" ??? www.flyingkettle.com took me a lot of trouble to construct! > (I'm seriously just kidding you! - I really DO enjoy reading your > input on this listing.) That's most kind of you. > It's clear to me from the spurious comments I've read that the > synopsis does not bring adequate justice to the body of the thesis. Really, is that true? It just seemed to me that the bit about "upsetting the 'spatial identities' of the SH folk" was meaningless babble of the type I have seen too much of in philosophy conferences. Maybe I was unfair to the thesis as a whole. I suppose that shows one should read something before criticizing it. Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** From manager at sainthelenabank.com Thu May 31 12:30:36 2007 From: manager at sainthelenabank.com (Manager, Bank of St. Helena) Date: Thu May 31 12:35:57 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Internet business opportunities In-Reply-To: <465F1DE8.11466.313A3EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000d01c7a367$54bb52b0$6400a8c0@main>, <00c501c7a369$336c0800$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <465F1DE8.11466.313A3EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com> Message-ID: <00ce01c7a36e$be2256c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Thomas, Here are the latest prices [source: 2007 phone book] 64Kb line: ?500/month (for a one-year commitment, or ?440/month for a three-year commitment) 128Kb line: ?765/month 192Kb line: ?985/month There is also a one-off installation fee of ?100. If you can actually run a viable Internet-based business at those prices St.?Helena will welcome your inward investment with open arms. JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Thomas Goodey Sent: 31 May 2007 18:12 To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Internet business opportunities On 31 May 2007 at 9:50, John Turner wrote: > A permanently-on leased line costs c. 400/month. What would the bandwidth be? How many subscribers at this price are there at the moment, actually? > At those prices any internet-based business is a non-starter... That's not necessarily true. After all, that's "only" 16 pounds a working day, if you work Saturdays. If there were, say, five people working in some kind of internet business, the overhead per worker would not be frightful, and would be more than compensated for (in terms of direct SH:UK competition) by the fact that salaries are much lower in SH than in the UK. But I doubt that one leased line would have enough bandwidth for five telephone conversations at once. Our hypothetical business couldn't be a full-time-talking type business like a call center. But it could be data entry of some kind, or programming. > against competition from the likes of India and China. In any case, direct competition against the Indians in many of these internet businesses would be impossible, because they are willing to work far too cheaply. > There are heaps of opportunities the Internet could offer to St. > Helena if an affordable connection could be made available. >From the above analysis, it seems to me that the cost of the connection wouldn't be enough to stop an internet business functioning from SH. Other factors might be, though. It does seem to me that SH, with no airport, and no cheap internet even in prospect, is the last holdout in the world against globalization. Well, you know what they say about people who lie down in front of juggernauts... Thomas Goodey From manager at sainthelenabank.com Thu May 31 13:24:52 2007 From: manager at sainthelenabank.com (Manager, Bank of St. Helena) Date: Thu May 31 13:29:59 2007 Subject: FW: [STHELENA] postage stamps Message-ID: <00e101c7a376$51804e20$2d0b000a@shgbank45> _____ From: Beverly Francis [mailto:PM.PO@helanta.sh] Sent: 31 May 2007 08:27 To: Manager, Bank of St. Helena Subject: Re: [STHELENA] postage stamps Hi John, I suggest you forward my contact details so that the correspondent can contact me direct. Regards Beverley Francis Postmistress St Helena Island Post Office Jamestown South Atlantic Ocean STHL 1ZZ ----- Original Message ----- From: Manager, Bank of St. Helena To: 'Beverly Francis' Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:55 AM Subject: FW: [STHELENA] postage stamps Beverley, Is there an official reply I can pass on? JT _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Noel Davenhill Sent: 30 May 2007 19:43 To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps Hi there, I am preparing a feature article in a UK magazine and want to find out something about the usage of higher value postage stamps in St Helena. As there is no airport in St Helena yet, what postal usage do stamps of ?2 and ?3 have? Has anybody any experience of using or seen these denominations actually used for postage, other than for collectors? I would very much appreciate any feedback on this subject. Many thanks, Noel Davenhill __________ NOD32 2298 (20070530) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/819 - Release Date: 26/05/2007 10:47 a.m. _____ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the Cable & Wireless St. Helena e-mail security system - powered by McAfee. _____ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the Cable & Wireless St. Helena e-mail security system - powered by McAfee. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/e997b9cf/attachment.htm From ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au Thu May 31 13:29:54 2007 From: ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au (Terry Herbert) Date: Thu May 31 13:30:29 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] RE: Master's thesis Human Geography UniversityofUtrecht In-Reply-To: <465F224D.20328.324D0C6@thomas.flyingkettle.com> Message-ID: <200705311130.l4VBTsuT021340@mail35.syd.optusnet.com.au> Maybe I was unfair to the thesis as a whole. I suppose that shows one should read something before criticizing it. That's not a bad idea - most of the criticism of the paper so far seems to have come from those who haven't read it. On the other hand those who have read it seem, like me, to find it of great interest. I must also confess my complete ignorance, until now, of the concept of steam filled balloons. Haven't had time to read through the site, but had a look at the graphic shots on http://www.flyingkettle.com/steam1inf.htm I've bookmarked the site for more reading later. All the best Terry Herbert DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, Australia -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Thomas Goodey Sent: Friday, 1 June 2007 4:30 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Master's thesis Human Geography UniversityofUtrecht On 31 May 2007 at 12:21, Rob G wrote: > Hi Thomas, (careful you don't become known for the latter part of your > email addy, wahaha!) ??? for "com", or for "flyingkettle", or for "kettle" ??? www.flyingkettle.com took me a lot of trouble to construct! > (I'm seriously just kidding you! - I really DO enjoy reading your > input on this listing.) That's most kind of you. > It's clear to me from the spurious comments I've read that the > synopsis does not bring adequate justice to the body of the thesis. Really, is that true? It just seemed to me that the bit about "upsetting the 'spatial identities' of the SH folk" was meaningless babble of the type I have seen too much of in philosophy conferences. Maybe I was unfair to the thesis as a whole. I suppose that shows one should read something before criticizing it. Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From takkies at mighty.co.za Thu May 31 13:34:32 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Thu May 31 13:38:32 2007 Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Master's thesis Human Geography UniversityofUtrecht References: <000e01c79e67$eab68a00$ba06f304@fmk4n>, <004801c7a36d$82da5d20$0200a8c0@dad> <465F224D.20328.324D0C6@thomas.flyingkettle.com> Message-ID: <000001c7a378$294354f0$0200a8c0@dad> Wahaha, yes, I think a tone of "hot-air" does seem prevalent in your earlier comments - but my jibe at you stemmed a little from "empty kettles make the most noise"! Hence, I thought your comments sounded more like something coming from a "flying-kettle" Lol! But hey, I squizzed over your website straight away... and WOW, it's absolutely facsinating! You can be sure I will download your "paper" (which I see is only 1Mb in file size compared to Maartens St.Helena thesis of 6Mb). Does that mean your "steamy flight" took only 12.5 days to come up with? Ok, just kidding again... seriously, I've always enjoyed anything revolving around steam technology and "flight" - hence my facsination behind your endevours and what you've published. I'd be very interested to learn more about the factor steam and heat holds against other inert gasses commonly used in balloon suspension. Hey, just in case you mis-read me, I wasn't reffering to your comments as being the ONLY "spurious" one's I've read and felt were so - it was merely for the fact that there were several "negative" comments said before the thesis had actually been read (by those who made them). I'm dead sure that "upsetting the 'spatial identities'" of SH folk will become evident once you've read the thesis. Anyway, I'm sure the annon prporter will have a "couple" of deep words to add to this steamy interlude... or am I being an "arrogant" South African to assume the tease will favour a response? Later then, Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Goodey" To: Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 8:30 PM Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Master's thesis Human Geography UniversityofUtrecht > On 31 May 2007 at 12:21, Rob G wrote: > >> Hi Thomas, (careful you don't become known for the latter part of your >> email addy, wahaha!) > > ??? for "com", or for "flyingkettle", or for "kettle" ??? > > www.flyingkettle.com took me a lot of trouble to construct! > >> (I'm seriously just kidding you! - I really DO enjoy reading your >> input on this listing.) > > That's most kind of you. > >> It's clear to me from the spurious comments I've read that the >> synopsis does not bring adequate justice to the body of the thesis. > > Really, is that true? It just seemed to me that the bit about > "upsetting the 'spatial identities' of the SH folk" was meaningless > babble of the type I have seen too much of in philosophy conferences. > > Maybe I was unfair to the thesis as a whole. I suppose that shows one > should read something before criticizing it. > > Thomas Goodey > > ********************************* > The introduction of a multiplicity > of objectives into a problem not > only destroys its unity, but also > increases markedly both the > time necessary for, and the > actual personal danger involved > in, its solution. > ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII > ************************************** > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 2007/05/30 > 03:03 PM > > From g.tordini at tiscali.it Thu May 31 15:01:53 2007 From: g.tordini at tiscali.it (giuliano tordini) Date: Thu May 31 15:02:13 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] RE: References: <200704251000.l3PA05Aq022700@rex.kulturservern.se><200704260851.l3Q8pEje005301@goliat.espol.edu.ec> <000701c787e1$6562beb0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> Dear John Turner. My sanitary insurance cover me in all Europa, Great Britain included, but they say that insurance does not protect me in SH, and I have to make for that a private insurance, becouse SH is not a territory of UK. Is it true? Do you know this problem? What do you think? Thank you. gt Giuliano Tordini Via G. Garibaldi 18 59100 Prato g.tordini@tiscali.it tel +39 0574 42 462 mobile +39 339 60 33 820 From takkies at mighty.co.za Thu May 31 15:14:46 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Thu May 31 15:15:20 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] RE: References: <200704251000.l3PA05Aq022700@rex.kulturservern.se><200704260851.l3Q8pEje005301@goliat.espol.edu.ec><000701c787e1$6562beb0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> Message-ID: <003e01c7a385$b179b5f0$0200a8c0@dad> ROFLOL (roll on the floor laughing out loud)... Giuliano, I think you meant to say "sanity", NOT sanitary! The problem of the latter exists about 24 inches away from the former... oh my, this is the most innocent and funniest faux pas I've read on this listing! heehee... Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: "giuliano tordini" To: ; "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] RE: > Dear John Turner. > My sanitary insurance cover me in all Europa, Great Britain included, but > they say that insurance does not protect me in SH, and I have to make for > that a private insurance, becouse SH is not a territory of UK. > Is it true? Do you know this problem? What do you think? > Thank you. > gt > > > Giuliano Tordini > Via G. Garibaldi 18 > 59100 Prato > > g.tordini@tiscali.it > tel +39 0574 42 462 > mobile +39 339 60 33 820 > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: > 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 2007/05/30 03:03 PM > > From sea_dragons at earthlink.net Thu May 31 15:28:29 2007 From: sea_dragons at earthlink.net (Christopher D. Lewis) Date: Thu May 31 15:28:42 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] health insurance In-Reply-To: <003e01c7a385$b179b5f0$0200a8c0@dad> References: <200704251000.l3PA05Aq022700@rex.kulturservern.se><200704260851.l3Q8pEje005301@goliat.espol.edu.ec><000701c787e1$6562beb0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> <003e01c7a385$b179b5f0$0200a8c0@dad> Message-ID: <05D8D787-34C4-45AB-96C2-FE67351DF9B6@earthlink.net> On May 31, 2007, at 8:14 AM, Rob G wrote: > ROFLOL (roll on the floor laughing out loud)... Giuliano, I think > you meant to say "sanity", NOT sanitary! Actually, "sanitary" has archaic use in the health field. It's not a faux pas, it's a translation issue. He's asking about whether his health insurance satisfies St. Helena's requirements. Take care, Chris From takkies at mighty.co.za Thu May 31 15:29:30 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Thu May 31 15:29:51 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] RE: References: <200704251000.l3PA05Aq022700@rex.kulturservern.se><200704260851.l3Q8pEje005301@goliat.espol.edu.ec><000701c787e1$6562beb0$2d0b000a@shgbank45><006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> <003e01c7a385$b179b5f0$0200a8c0@dad> Message-ID: <004301c7a387$b93a59f0$0200a8c0@dad> Er, I'm SO sorry Guiliano... my mistake... haha, I think it's ME that should be "commited"... the word you used as "sanitary" was correct in terms of your reference! I googled it and even found a "Director of Sanitary Services"... now it's me that has bowel movements... lol! Cheers, I'm off to relieve myself... (gosh, what a thing to say on a public forum?!) Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob G" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] RE: > ROFLOL (roll on the floor laughing out loud)... Giuliano, I think you > meant to say "sanity", NOT sanitary! The problem of the latter exists > about 24 inches away from the former... oh my, this is the most innocent > and funniest faux pas I've read on this listing! heehee... > > Rob G > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "giuliano tordini" > To: ; "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South > Atlantic(Eng)" > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:01 PM > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] RE: > > >> Dear John Turner. >> My sanitary insurance cover me in all Europa, Great Britain included, but >> they say that insurance does not protect me in SH, and I have to make for >> that a private insurance, becouse SH is not a territory of UK. >> Is it true? Do you know this problem? What do you think? >> Thank you. >> gt >> >> >> Giuliano Tordini >> Via G. Garibaldi 18 >> 59100 Prato >> >> g.tordini@tiscali.it >> tel +39 0574 42 462 >> mobile +39 339 60 33 820 >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: >> 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 2007/05/30 03:03 PM >> >> > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: > 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 2007/05/30 03:03 PM > > From takkies at mighty.co.za Thu May 31 15:32:00 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Thu May 31 15:32:24 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] health insurance References: <200704251000.l3PA05Aq022700@rex.kulturservern.se><200704260851.l3Q8pEje005301@goliat.espol.edu.ec><000701c787e1$6562beb0$2d0b000a@shgbank45><006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI><003e01c7a385$b179b5f0$0200a8c0@dad> <05D8D787-34C4-45AB-96C2-FE67351DF9B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004c01c7a388$12432ae0$0200a8c0@dad> Yes, to my embarrasment, he was correct... I guess my wicked sense of humour and lack of use of the term got the better of me. Oh well, I'm still breathing... along with a very red face. Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher D. Lewis" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:28 PM Subject: [STHELENA] health insurance > > On May 31, 2007, at 8:14 AM, Rob G wrote: > >> ROFLOL (roll on the floor laughing out loud)... Giuliano, I think you >> meant to say "sanity", NOT sanitary! > > Actually, "sanitary" has archaic use in the health field. It's not a > faux pas, it's a translation issue. He's asking about whether his health > insurance satisfies St. Helena's requirements. > > Take care, > Chris > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: > 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 2007/05/30 03:03 PM > > From prporter1 at aim.com Thu May 31 15:33:28 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Thu May 31 15:34:04 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Internet business opportunities In-Reply-To: <00ce01c7a36e$be2256c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000d01c7a367$54bb52b0$6400a8c0@main>, <00c501c7a369$336c0800$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <465F1DE8.11466.313A3EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com> <00ce01c7a36e$be2256c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <8C9719F68876DA3-15DC-71A@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> Is this year round? -----Original Message----- From: Manager, Bank of St. Helena To: thomas@flyingkettle.com Cc: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Thu, 31 May 2007 4:30 am Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Internet business opportunities Thomas, Here are the latest prices [source: 2007 phone book] 64Kb line: ?500/month (for a one-year commitment, or ?440/month for a hree-year commitment) 28Kb line: ?765/month 92Kb line: ?985/month There is also a one-off installation fee of ?100. If you can actually run a viable Internet-based business at those prices t.?Helena will welcome your inward investment with open arms. JT -----Original Message----- rom: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf f Thomas Goodey ent: 31 May 2007 18:12 o: list@sthelena.se ubject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Internet business opportunities On 31 May 2007 at 9:50, John Turner wrote: > A permanently-on leased line costs c. 400/month. What would the bandwidth be? How many subscribers at this price are there at the moment, actually? > At those prices any internet-based business is a non-starter... That's not necessarily true. After all, that's "only" 16 pounds a working ay, if you work Saturdays. If there were, say, five people working in some ind of internet business, the overhead per worker would not be frightful, nd would be more than compensated for (in terms of direct SH:UK ompetition) by the fact that salaries are much lower in SH than in the UK. But I doubt that one leased line would have enough bandwidth for five elephone conversations at once. Our hypothetical business couldn't be a ull-time-talking type business like a call center. But it could be data ntry of some kind, or programming. > against competition from the likes of India and China. In any case, direct competition against the Indians in many of these nternet businesses would be impossible, because they are willing to work ar too cheaply. There are heaps of opportunities the Internet could offer to St. Helena if an affordable connection could be made available. >From the above analysis, it seems to me that the cost of the onnection wouldn't be enough to stop an internet business functioning from H. Other factors might be, though. It does seem to me that SH, with no airport, and no cheap internet even in rospect, is the last holdout in the world against globalization. Well, you now what they say about people who lie down in front of juggernauts... Thomas Goodey The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/598b8193/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Thu May 31 15:34:42 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Thu May 31 15:35:12 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] health insurance In-Reply-To: <004c01c7a388$12432ae0$0200a8c0@dad> References: <200704251000.l3PA05Aq022700@rex.kulturservern.se><200704260851.l3Q8pEje005301@goliat.espol.edu.ec><000701c787e1$6562beb0$2d0b000a@shgbank45><006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI><003e01c7a385$b179b5f0$0200a8c0@dad> <05D8D787-34C4-45AB-96C2-FE67351DF9B6@earthlink.net> <004c01c7a388$12432ae0$0200a8c0@dad> Message-ID: <8C9719F945409EC-15DC-730@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> ROFLMAO! -----Original Message----- From: Rob G To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Thu, 31 May 2007 7:32 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] health insurance Yes, to my embarrasment, he was correct... I guess my wicked sense of humour and lack of use of the term got the better of me.? ? Oh well, I'm still breathing... along with a very red face.? ? Rob G? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher D. Lewis" ? To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" ? Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:28 PM? Subject: [STHELENA] health insurance? ? >? > On May 31, 2007, at 8:14 AM, Rob G wrote:? >? >> ROFLOL (roll on the floor laughing out loud)... Giuliano, I think you >> meant to say "sanity", NOT sanitary!? >? > Actually, "sanitary" has archaic use in the health field. It's not a > faux pas, it's a translation issue. He's asking about whether his health > insurance satisfies St. Helena's requirements.? >? > Take care,? > Chris? > The S:t Helena Mailing List? > To unsubscribe please send a email to:? > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? >? >? >? > -- > No virus found in this incoming message.? > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: > 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 2007/05/30 03:03 PM? >? > ? The S:t Helena Mailing List? To unsubscribe please send a email to:? list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/4e6bd8f5/attachment.htm From takkies at mighty.co.za Thu May 31 15:43:53 2007 From: takkies at mighty.co.za (Rob G) Date: Thu May 31 15:44:20 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] health insurance References: <200704251000.l3PA05Aq022700@rex.kulturservern.se><200704260851.l3Q8pEje005301@goliat.espol.edu.ec><000701c787e1$6562beb0$2d0b000a@shgbank45><006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI><003e01c7a385$b179b5f0$0200a8c0@dad> <05D8D787-34C4-45AB-96C2-FE67351DF9B6@earthlink.net><004c01c7a388$12432ae0$0200a8c0@dad> <8C9719F945409EC-15DC-730@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <007201c7a389$bba75060$0200a8c0@dad> Well wadda you know, that chirp from you means more to me than anything you've said so far... teehee! Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] health insurance ROFLMAO! -----Original Message----- From: Rob G To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Thu, 31 May 2007 7:32 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] health insurance Yes, to my embarrasment, he was correct... I guess my wicked sense of humour and lack of use of the term got the better of me. Oh well, I'm still breathing... along with a very red face. Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher D. Lewis" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:28 PM Subject: [STHELENA] health insurance > > On May 31, 2007, at 8:14 AM, Rob G wrote: > >> ROFLOL (roll on the floor laughing out loud)... Giuliano, I think you >> meant to say "sanity", NOT sanitary! > > Actually, "sanitary" has archaic use in the health field. It's not a > faux pas, it's a translation issue. He's asking about whether his health > insurance satisfies St. Helena's requirements. > > Take care, > Chris > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: > 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 2007/05/30 03:03 PM > > The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 2007/05/30 03:03 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/b68e6874/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Thu May 31 16:13:43 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Thu May 31 16:14:48 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] health insurance In-Reply-To: <007201c7a389$bba75060$0200a8c0@dad> References: <200704251000.l3PA05Aq022700@rex.kulturservern.se><200704260851.l3Q8pEje005301@goliat.espol.edu.ec><000701c787e1$6562beb0$2d0b000a@shgbank45><006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI><003e01c7a385$b179b5f0$0200a8c0@dad> <05D8D787-34C4-45AB-96C2-FE67351DF9B6@earthlink.net><004c01c7a388$12432ae0$0200a8c0@dad> <8C9719F945409EC-15DC-730@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> <007201c7a389$bba75060$0200a8c0@dad> Message-ID: <8C971A507A5CC08-1BDC-7BC@WEBMAIL-RA17.sysops.aol.com> Wadda? -----Original Message----- From: Rob G To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Thu, 31 May 2007 7:43 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] health insurance Well wadda you know, that chirp from you means more to me than anything you've said so far... teehee! ? Rob G ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] health insurance ROFLMAO! -----Original Message----- From: Rob G To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Thu, 31 May 2007 7:32 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] health insurance Yes, to my embarrasment, he was correct... I guess my wicked sense of humour and lack of use of the term got the better of me.? ? Oh well, I'm still breathing... along with a very red face.? ? Rob G? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher D. Lewis" ? To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" ? Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:28 PM? Subject: [STHELENA] health insurance? ? >? > On May 31, 2007, at 8:14 AM, Rob G wrote:? >? >> ROFLOL (roll on the floor laughing out loud)... Giuliano, I think you >> meant to say "sanity", NOT sanitary!? >? > Actually, "sanitary" has archaic use in the health field. It's not a > faux pas, it's a translation issue. He's asking about whether his health > insurance satisfies St. Helena's requirements.? >? > Take care,? > Chris? > The S:t Helena Mailing List? > To unsubscribe please send a email to:? > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? >? >? >? > -- > No virus found in this incoming message.? > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: > 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 2007/05/30 03:03 PM? >? > ? The S:t Helena Mailing List? To unsubscribe please send a email to:? list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.? Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.4/825 - Release Date: 2007/05/30 03:03 PM The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/78dad48d/attachment.htm From john at burghhouse.com Thu May 31 16:50:09 2007 From: john at burghhouse.com (John Turner) Date: Thu May 31 16:55:16 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] RE: In-Reply-To: <006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> References: <200704251000.l3PA05Aq022700@rex.kulturservern.se><200704260851.l3Q8pEje005301@goliat.espol.edu.ec><000701c787e1$6562beb0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> Message-ID: <014901c7a392$ff4679f0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Dear Giuliano, It's up to your insurer to decide what territories are covered by their insurance, so if they say St.?Helena is not covered then it isn't. As an overseas territory St.?Helena is not fully part of the Great Britain, so you may need to ask for worldwide cover. Regards, John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of giuliano tordini Sent: 31 May 2007 13:02 To: John@burghhouse.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] RE: Dear John Turner. My sanitary insurance cover me in all Europa, Great Britain included, but they say that insurance does not protect me in SH, and I have to make for that a private insurance, becouse SH is not a territory of UK. Is it true? Do you know this problem? What do you think? Thank you. gt Giuliano Tordini Via G. Garibaldi 18 59100 Prato g.tordini@tiscali.it tel +39 0574 42 462 mobile +39 339 60 33 820 The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2301 (20070531) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From jvigor at earthlink.net Thu May 31 17:57:58 2007 From: jvigor at earthlink.net (John and June Vigor) Date: Thu May 31 17:57:35 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Internet business opportunities References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000d01c7a367$54bb52b0$6400a8c0@main>, <00c501c7a369$336c0800$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <465F1DE8.11466.313A3EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><00ce01c7a36e$be2256c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <8C9719F68876DA3-15DC-71A@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <005301c7a39c$771c0860$4a04f304@fmk4n> No, it's square. John Vigor ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 6:33 AM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Internet business opportunities Is this year round? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/b0deffb7/attachment-0001.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Thu May 31 18:40:28 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Thu May 31 18:41:03 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Internet business opportunities In-Reply-To: <005301c7a39c$771c0860$4a04f304@fmk4n> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000d01c7a367$54bb52b0$6400a8c0@main>, <00c501c7a369$336c0800$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <465F1DE8.11466.313A3EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><00ce01c7a36e$be2256c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <8C9719F68876DA3-15DC-71A@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> <005301c7a39c$771c0860$4a04f304@fmk4n> Message-ID: <8C971B987D93EA7-B2C-12AC@webmail-da01.sysops.aol.com> I guess fron St. He., that would make sense. ;-) -----Original Message----- From: John and June Vigor To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Thu, 31 May 2007 9:57 am Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Internet business opportunities No, it's square. ? John Vigor ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 6:33 AM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Internet business opportunities Is this year round? The S:t Helena Mailing List o unsubscribe please send a email to: ist-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/37e422bd/attachment.htm From rbauer6115 at t-online.de Thu May 31 19:06:32 2007 From: rbauer6115 at t-online.de (Reino Bauer) Date: Thu May 31 19:07:03 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Internet business opportunities In-Reply-To: <8C9719F68876DA3-15DC-71A@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000d01c7a367$54bb52b0$6400a8c0@main>, <00c501c7a369$336c0800$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <465F1DE8.11466.313A3EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com> <00ce01c7a36e$be2256c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <8C9719F68876DA3-15DC-71A@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <465F0098.7080001@bigfoot.com> prporter1@aim.com wrote: > Is this year round? No, square. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/f3f000ef/attachment.htm From rbauer6115 at t-online.de Thu May 31 19:17:20 2007 From: rbauer6115 at t-online.de (Reino Bauer) Date: Thu May 31 19:17:45 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Internet business opportunities In-Reply-To: <005301c7a39c$771c0860$4a04f304@fmk4n> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000d01c7a367$54bb52b0$6400a8c0@main>, <00c501c7a369$336c0800$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <465F1DE8.11466.313A3EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><00ce01c7a36e$be2256c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <8C9719F68876DA3-15DC-71A@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> <005301c7a39c$771c0860$4a04f304@fmk4n> Message-ID: <465F0320.1000501@bigfoot.com> John and June Vigor wrote: > No, it's square. Sorry John, did not see your posting before. Could not resist and am glad somebody else had enough humor as well. These one word postings are quite meaningless and become a nuisance. At least for me. Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/50f100ee/attachment.htm From rbauer6115 at t-online.de Thu May 31 19:23:55 2007 From: rbauer6115 at t-online.de (Reino Bauer) Date: Thu May 31 19:24:30 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] RE: In-Reply-To: <006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> References: <200704251000.l3PA05Aq022700@rex.kulturservern.se><200704260851.l3Q8pEje005301@goliat.espol.edu.ec> <000701c787e1$6562beb0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> Message-ID: <465F04AB.1090007@bigfoot.com> Giuliano, I had a similar experience last year. Tried to get an insurance from a UK-broker. They can not insure people living outside the UK. At the end I took an extra travel insurance with full world coverage. I can not remember how much it was, however it was the smallest amount we spent for our journey. If I remember well the insurance must also cover repatriation by air. A demand quite ahead of the present situation. Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) giuliano tordini wrote: > Dear John Turner. > My sanitary insurance cover me in all Europa, Great Britain included, > but they say that insurance does not protect me in SH, and I have to > make for that a private insurance, because SH is not a territory of UK. > Is it true? Do you know this problem? What do you think? > Thank you. > gt > > > Giuliano Tordini > Via G. Garibaldi 18 > 59100 Prato > > g.tordini@tiscali.it > tel +39 0574 42 462 > mobile +39 339 60 33 820 > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/d515b1e0/attachment.htm From john at burghhouse.com Thu May 31 19:38:30 2007 From: john at burghhouse.com (John Turner) Date: Thu May 31 19:43:40 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] RE: In-Reply-To: <465F04AB.1090007@bigfoot.com> References: <200704251000.l3PA05Aq022700@rex.kulturservern.se><200704260851.l3Q8pEje005301@goliat.espol.edu.ec> <000701c787e1$6562beb0$2d0b000a@shgbank45><006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> <465F04AB.1090007@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <01b201c7a3aa$83e020a0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> The medical repatriation insurance is a requirement, and you may not get in without it, but I must admit the whole idea seems a bit daft to me. If whatever happens to you is not terribly serious the hospital here could probably sort you out, at least to the point when you can travel home in the normal way. And if it's so bad that they can't, you probably won't be able to survive the wait until the RMS calls (or someone flags down a passing tanker); the two days by sea to Ascension or four to Africa; and then the medevac flight from there. I had the misfortune to be in Intensive Care once in the UK. Next to me was an American who had come over on a holiday and suffered an embolism. The hospital (one of London's finest) was treating him well and he was slowly recovering, but his wife insisted on medevac to get him back to the USA. He didn't make it. If I'm taken seriously ill I think I'd rather just stay here and take my chances. JT _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Reino Bauer Sent: 31 May 2007 17:24 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] RE: Giuliano, I had a similar experience last year. Tried to get an insurance from a UK-broker. They can not insure people living outside the UK. At the end I took an extra travel insurance with full world coverage. I can not remember how much it was, however it was the smallest amount we spent for our journey. If I remember well the insurance must also cover repatriation by air. A demand quite ahead of the present situation. Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91) giuliano tordini wrote: > Dear John Turner. > My sanitary insurance cover me in all Europa, Great Britain included, > but they say that insurance does not protect me in SH, and I have to > make for that a private insurance, because SH is not a territory of UK. > Is it true? Do you know this problem? What do you think? > Thank you. > gt > > > Giuliano Tordini > Via G. Garibaldi 18 > 59100 Prato > > g.tordini@tiscali.it > tel +39 0574 42 462 > mobile +39 339 60 33 820 > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > has notified the sender that this message has been received. __________ NOD32 2301 (20070531) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/d3d51b12/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Thu May 31 21:36:13 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Thu May 31 21:40:44 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Internet business opportunities In-Reply-To: <465F0320.1000501@bigfoot.com> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000d01c7a367$54bb52b0$6400a8c0@main>, <00c501c7a369$336c0800$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <465F1DE8.11466.313A3EC@thomas.flyingkettle.com><00ce01c7a36e$be2256c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <8C9719F68876DA3-15DC-71A@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> <005301c7a39c$771c0860$4a04f304@fmk4n> <465F0320.1000501@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <8C971D21543A592-40C-1D16@webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com> Right up there with personal E-mail to the entire group! -----Original Message----- From: Reino Bauer To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Thu, 31 May 2007 11:17 am Subject: Re: Re: [STHELENA] Internet business opportunities John and June Vigor wrote: > No, it's square. Sorry John, did not see your posting before. Could not resist and am glad somebody else had enough humor as well. These one word postings are quite meaningless and become a nuisance. At least for me. Cheers, Reino Bauer (V91). has notified the sender that this message has been received. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070531/2ecc6bc5/attachment.htm From ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au Thu May 31 22:14:49 2007 From: ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au (Terry Herbert) Date: Thu May 31 22:30:27 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] RE: In-Reply-To: <006201c7a383$dc847520$0200a8c0@ESSEDI> Message-ID: <200705312014.l4VKEmvP016125@mail10.syd.optusnet.com.au> Giuliano, There are two requirements for medical insurance in traveling to St Helena. The first is that you have cover for Medical Expenses for a minimum of ?1 million while traveling as a ticketed passenger aboard RMS St Helena. This is stated on your ticketing document but is not always checked by the agents. The second requirement is for St Helena and Ascension Island. In both cases it is a requirement that you have cover for a minimum amount of ?250,000 for Medical Expenses, including the costs of medical evacuation - that is to say, moving you from the islands to a better equipped medical facility. I haven't been to Ascension Island for some years now so cannot say for certain how carefully landing passengers are checked, but on St Helena generally speaking you are required to produce proof of insurance to the Immigration Authorities on the ship. If you do not have satisfactory cover you have 48 hours to obtain insurance which you can buy from the local insurers. If your existing health insurers are correct in their statement that you are not covered, then it is simple and comparatively cheap to buy Travel insurance including Medical Expenses and Medical Evacuation cover in your home country. But you might check the rules of your health insurance because many of these schemes do provide cover to St Helena, even if the clerks think they do not. If you can find someone who understands their business and can confirm that you ARE in fact covered, then you can get a letter from them (it would be a good idea to have this in English or have a certified translation available in English) confirming that you are covered and that should meet the relevant requirements. All the best Terry Herbert DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, Australia -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of giuliano tordini Sent: Thursday, 31 May 2007 11:02 PM To: John@burghhouse.com; All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] RE: Dear John Turner. My sanitary insurance cover me in all Europa, Great Britain included, but they say that insurance does not protect me in SH, and I have to make for that a private insurance, becouse SH is not a territory of UK. Is it true? Do you know this problem? What do you think? Thank you. gt Giuliano Tordini Via G. Garibaldi 18 59100 Prato g.tordini@tiscali.it tel +39 0574 42 462 mobile +39 339 60 33 820 The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From vmawson at iprimus.com.au Thu May 31 23:22:50 2007 From: vmawson at iprimus.com.au (Vivienne Mawson) Date: Thu May 31 23:30:16 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton In-Reply-To: <000c01c7a31b$294e72c0$df0af204@fmk4n> References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> <000c01c7a31b$294e72c0$df0af204@fmk4n> Message-ID: Hi John French visitors do turn up from time to time. But when a cruise ship (La France?) packed full of napoleonophiles visited once, the rollers were too strong for the captain to allow them on shore (dropping French tourists into the water would probably have caused an international incident!). When the German Navy called more recently, the then-consul would not open the house, allegedly because they visited on a weekend! Cheers Vivienne Vivienne Mawson (Dr) 11 Balemo Street South Arm, Tas 7022 tel & fax: +61 (0)3 6239 9935 On 31/05/2007, at 10:32 AM, John and June Vigor wrote: > Hi Vivienne: > > Yes, we saw the inside of Molly's Flat at Cambrian House. Our friend > Edward > Thorpe lives there now, and told us about your mother. It's a lovely > place, > and I imagine she must have been very happy there. > > I know the land at Longwood is permanently in French hands. The > reason I > surmised they keep a consul on it is because nobody else would care if > it > fell to bits. After Napoleon died, neither the Brits nor the Saints > did any > maintenance work on it. It literally fell to bits. The only original > part > of Longwood from Napoleon's time is the front steps, as you obviously > must > know already. The rest has been reconstructed. Yet strangely, very few > French visitors make the pilgrimage to the island. > > Cheers, > > John Vigor > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vivienne Mawson" > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:16 PM > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > > >> June >> The bibliography of St Helena is huge, though most of the recent ones >> seem to be mainly travel narratives. They all give potted histories of >> the island, based on Gosse chiefly, without giving 20th or 21st >> century >> updates or corrections to errors in Gosse and others (Julia >> Blackburn's >> book is particularly poor in this respect). Possibly the publishers of >> the St Helena Catalogue (www.shlcatalogue.net; email >> bfred@rmplc.co.uk) >> could advise you. >> >> The French government was given the site of Napoleon's tomb and >> Longwood in Queen Victoria's day, when Napoleon's body was sent to >> France, so your comment ("I still think the reason a French consul >> is >> stationed there is because they don't trust anyone else to maintain >> the >> place. And I'm convinced that fear is well founded.") is rather off >> the >> mark. It is, however, true that few (if any) attempts have been made >> by >> the (British) government to preserve the buildings and military >> structures. And although there is a law to prevent people exporting >> antique furniture and other artefacts that were purchased on the >> island, it has been ignored where the "exporter" has been a senior >> British government official. The then-Governor also allowed all except >> a few plates and bits and pieces from the wreck of the Witteleeuw to >> be >> removed and sold for a huge sum in Europe. >> >> Similarly, your earlier comment about citizenship (alas, I trashed it >> by mistake) was rather sloppy. St Helena was not technically given >> citizenship on the date you give ("citizenship" of a country rather >> than a town was a much later notion). The charter is interesting >> reading. When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost >> their right to live in England, unless they had English-born parents >> or >> grandparents. Maggie T felt obliged to restore the right to the >> Faulkland islanders (embarrassing to fight a war for people who could >> not actually reside in Britain, though in fact most of the islanders >> did qualify under the exclusion!). And, yes, she refused to extend the >> right to the Saints and other small Overseas Territories). Regaining >> it >> was a long and hard-fought battle (and a fascinating story in itself). >> It was led by the Bishop of St Helena and strongly supported by the >> Friends of St Helena (in England) and, of course, by Saints and >> dedicated ex-pats. >> >> I was pleased to hear you enjoyed your stay at Cambrian. Molly's Flat >> is named after my mother, who lived there for the last years of her >> life. I hope you were there for the mango season! I have never tasted >> such beautiful mangoes--even in Australia (which, unlike NZ and the >> USA, has never banned visits from nuclear-powered ships). >> Regards, Vivienne >> >> Vivienne Mawson (Dr) >> Tasmania 7022 >> >> On 29/05/2007, at 3:14 PM, John and June Vigor wrote: >> >>> >>> Terry, thank you for adding "Small Boat to Freedom" to the RMS ship's >>> library. Funnily enough, I took along two hardback copies when I >>> caught the >>> RMS from England to St. Helena last year. My intention was to donate >>> one to >>> the RMS in order to add some class and erudition to the library, but >>> when I >>> saw the surprising quality and quantity of the books it contained I >>> felt >>> quite outclassed and slunk away without making my contribution. In >>> the >>> end, >>> I left both copies on the island. >>> >>> As for a book about St. Helena, the problem is that I can't imagine >>> who >>> would publish it. I can't think of a single American publisher or >>> literary >>> agent who would be interested. The travel narrative genre is almost >>> extinct >>> here except for a few well-known names like Bryson and Raban. If >>> there >>> were >>> any chance of getting it published, I could produce a wonderfully >>> insightful >>> book about my stay in St. Helena with surprising alacrity. >>> >>> I don't remember now if I knew during my second visit that Longwood >>> and its >>> garden was actually French property, but if I didn't I certainly >>> found >>> out >>> later, and I still think the reason a French consul is stationed >>> there >>> is >>> because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the place. And I'm >>> convinced that fear is well founded. >>> >>> And incidentally, are you actually claiming that Australians are >>> sensitive >>> enough to care who takes cheap shots at the French? I thought it was >>> an >>> antipodean trait to thumb noses at the French, and deny them port >>> access for >>> their nuclear submarines in retaliation for their wicked sinking of >>> Greenpeace's Rainbow Warrior--or is it just the gutsy Kiwis I'm >>> thinking of? >>> >>> I hadn't seen the paper about the "spatial identities" of the Saints. >>> I'm >>> sure it is of great interest to a few academics, but I bet the vast >>> majority >>> of Saints don't even know they have a spatial identity. It may even >>> be >>> insulting to suggest that their spatial horizon is limited to the >>> edges of >>> the island. Saints fought for Britain in both World Wars as well as >>> the >>> Falklands falderal. They've had regular contact with Europe, Africa, >>> and the >>> Far East since 1502. I think that unlike President Paul Kruger, they >>> have >>> known for quite some time that the world is round, not flat. >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> John Vigor >>> >>> The S:t Helena Mailing List >>> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >>> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >>> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Tue May 29 20:05:30 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:29:55 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: Message-ID: <001c01c7a21b$f9a56010$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ychrist@aol.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Dear Terry, I would be very interested in reading the Hogenstijn and van Middelkoop dissertation. I gather it is lodged at Utrecht and wonder if there are any issues about your kind offer to send an electronic version of the one that you have? If the are no issues, i.e. about copyright, etc., I would love to have one. My understanding is that a dissertation does not have the same status as a published book. Alas for Hogenstijn and van Middelkoop. There is clearly an interest in their work. Best wishes Yvette Christians? ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070529/aa175da2/attachment-0001.htm From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 01:15:51 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:30:00 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> Message-ID: <002101c7a247$503644a0$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vivienne Mawson" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > June > The bibliography of St Helena is huge, though most of the recent ones seem > to be mainly travel narratives. They all give potted histories of the > island, based on Gosse chiefly, without giving 20th or 21st century > updates or corrections to errors in Gosse and others (Julia Blackburn's > book is particularly poor in this respect). Possibly the publishers of the > St Helena Catalogue (www.shlcatalogue.net; email bfred@rmplc.co.uk) could > advise you. > > The French government was given the site of Napoleon's tomb and Longwood > in Queen Victoria's day, when Napoleon's body was sent to France, so your > comment ("I still think the reason a French consul is stationed there is > because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the place. And I'm > convinced that fear is well founded.") is rather off the mark. It is, > however, true that few (if any) attempts have been made by the (British) > government to preserve the buildings and military structures. And although > there is a law to prevent people exporting antique furniture and other > artefacts that were purchased on the island, it has been ignored where the > "exporter" has been a senior British government official. The > then-Governor also allowed all except a few plates and bits and pieces > from the wreck of the Witteleeuw to be removed and sold for a huge sum in > Europe. > > Similarly, your earlier comment about citizenship (alas, I trashed it by > mistake) was rather sloppy. St Helena was not technically given > citizenship on the date you give ("citizenship" of a country rather than a > town was a much later notion). The charter is interesting reading. When > Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their right to live > in England, unless they had English-born parents or grandparents. Maggie T > felt obliged to restore the right to the Faulkland islanders (embarrassing > to fight a war for people who could not actually reside in Britain, though > in fact most of the islanders did qualify under the exclusion!). And, yes, > she refused to extend the right to the Saints and other small Overseas > Territories). Regaining it was a long and hard-fought battle (and a > fascinating story in itself). It was led by the Bishop of St Helena and > strongly supported by the Friends of St Helena (in England) and, of > course, by Saints and dedicated ex-pats. > > I was pleased to hear you enjoyed your stay at Cambrian. Molly's Flat is > named after my mother, who lived there for the last years of her life. I > hope you were there for the mango season! I have never tasted such > beautiful mangoes--even in Australia (which, unlike NZ and the USA, has > never banned visits from nuclear-powered ships). > Regards, Vivienne > > Vivienne Mawson (Dr) > Tasmania 7022 > > On 29/05/2007, at 3:14 PM, John and June Vigor wrote: > >> >> Terry, thank you for adding "Small Boat to Freedom" to the RMS ship's >> library. Funnily enough, I took along two hardback copies when I caught >> the >> RMS from England to St. Helena last year. My intention was to donate one >> to >> the RMS in order to add some class and erudition to the library, but when >> I >> saw the surprising quality and quantity of the books it contained I felt >> quite outclassed and slunk away without making my contribution. In the >> end, >> I left both copies on the island. >> >> As for a book about St. Helena, the problem is that I can't imagine who >> would publish it. I can't think of a single American publisher or >> literary >> agent who would be interested. The travel narrative genre is almost >> extinct >> here except for a few well-known names like Bryson and Raban. If there >> were >> any chance of getting it published, I could produce a wonderfully >> insightful >> book about my stay in St. Helena with surprising alacrity. >> >> I don't remember now if I knew during my second visit that Longwood and >> its >> garden was actually French property, but if I didn't I certainly found >> out >> later, and I still think the reason a French consul is stationed there is >> because they don't trust anyone else to maintain the place. And I'm >> convinced that fear is well founded. >> >> And incidentally, are you actually claiming that Australians are >> sensitive >> enough to care who takes cheap shots at the French? I thought it was an >> antipodean trait to thumb noses at the French, and deny them port access >> for >> their nuclear submarines in retaliation for their wicked sinking of >> Greenpeace's Rainbow Warrior--or is it just the gutsy Kiwis I'm thinking >> of? >> >> I hadn't seen the paper about the "spatial identities" of the Saints. I'm >> sure it is of great interest to a few academics, but I bet the vast >> majority >> of Saints don't even know they have a spatial identity. It may even be >> insulting to suggest that their spatial horizon is limited to the edges >> of >> the island. Saints fought for Britain in both World Wars as well as the >> Falklands falderal. They've had regular contact with Europe, Africa, and >> the >> Far East since 1502. I think that unlike President Paul Kruger, they have >> known for quite some time that the world is round, not flat. >> >> All the best, >> >> John Vigor >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 01:16:19 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:30:06 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <20070529191228.A1432BE8B6@poscpt0h01.cpt.saa.co.za> <000601c7a234$f285c2c0$6903f204@fmk4n> Message-ID: <003201c7a247$5f40d2d0$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and June Vigor" To: ; "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > Ja Cindy, maar jy weet wat hulle se: Diepe water, stille grond, onder > draai > die duiwel rond. > > Tjiers, > > John V. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cindy Mussell" > To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:10 PM > Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > > >> Heyyyyyyyyy - I resent that !!!!!! ;-)))) >> >> Not all south africans are arrogant, that's too much of a generalisation > LOL >> >> I am one (south african) we're all nice unassuming quiet people here * > evil >> grin * >> >> Kind regards >> Cindy >> > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 01:16:11 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:30:10 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens ofSaintHelena - Ma References: <000001c7a238$da3baa00$0200a8c0@dad> Message-ID: <002701c7a247$5c6e51e0$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob G" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens ofSaintHelena - Ma > Hello Maarten, > > Just to say thanks to you and Dani?l for making your very interesting > thesis available and for the enjoyable read it's provided! > > It took me two hours of skim-reading... and I can't wait to begin reading > it through properly this time. Both of you have provided invaluable > knowledge and unearthed some very interesting facts that would have > normally taken me much longer to learn about. I must add, you've done very > well in terms of making it an easily readable publication too! Hats-off to > your social skills as well - it's clear you both have a knack for it. > > All the very best for your future plans... perhaps you'll consider writing > a comparitive thesis of the Island in say 10 years time? > > Rob G > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "maarten hogenstijn" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:03 PM > Subject: RE: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of > SaintHelena - Ma > > >> Hi all, >> >> Wow, some interest again for the Master's thesis that Dani?l and I did >> together in 2002. >> I still read this list on Saint Helena from time to time and just caught >> op un your discussion. It is good to hear that some of you find in >> interesting. For the others: I hope you want to read it before commenting >> on it too much. >> >> For your convenience, I have temporarily put it on my own server, where >> you can download it. >> You can access it at www.hogenstijn.nl/helena >> >> It is about 6,5 MB, like John said. >> I will remove it again after a week or two. >> There is no problem with copyrights if you download a copy for yourself. >> Please do not start printing and distributing it widely. When we did our >> thesis, a small number of books was printed. We have long run out of >> them. Three books should be on Saint Helena: one in the library, one in >> the Governor's office (he requested a copy) and one with Basil George, >> who helped us a lot when we were there. >> >> We'd be interested to hear your comments. After publishing the thesis, we >> have presented a paper on it at a geographer's conference in London, >> which finally led to the publication of an article in the scientific >> journal Tijdschrift voor Sociale en Economische Geografie (TESG). Despite >> the very Dutch title, this is an English-language scientific journal. You >> might be able to find it if you have access to a university library. >> Details: >> >> Hogenstijn, M., & Middelkoop, D.P. van (2005). Saint Helena: Citizenship >> and spatial identities on a remote island. TESG, 96(1), 96-104. >> >> After the Saint Helena project, we moved on and Daniel and I are now >> doing a joint Ph.D project on an entirely different subject (although >> still in geography). >> >> We think the language in the thesis is not too scientific. We tried to >> draw some scientific conclusions, but also to write about our experiences >> there. >> >> Hope you enjoy your read >> >> greeting from the Netherlands, >> >> Maarten >> >>>From: "John Turner" >>>Reply-To: John@burghhouse.com,"All about St. Helena - The Island in the >>>South Atlantic(Eng)" >>>To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" >>> >>>Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint >>>Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the >>>Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " >>>Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:42:36 -0000 >>> >>>If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the >>>authors'' >>>permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. >>> >>>The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically >>>requests it (direct to me - not via list). >>> >>>I also have a synopsis (257Kb). >>> >>>JT >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On >>>Behalf >>>Of Terry Herbert >>>Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 >>>To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' >>>Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton >>> >>>John and all, >>> >>>You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family >>>occupying >>>Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the >>>years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of >>>times >>>a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and >>>their >>>daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a >>>Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in >>>discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a >>>choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, >>>Australia not being 'edgy' enough. >>> >>>To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on >>>the >>>way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen >>>some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading >>>for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition >>>to >>>the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading >>>it. >>> >>>There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The >>>first >>>was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third >>>visit >>>to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the >>>publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you >>>published anything about your six months on the island that we can >>>access? >>>I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant >>>as >>>you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did >>>you >>>ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens >>>of >>>Saint Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - >>>the >>>Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know >>>there >>>is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during >>>your >>>stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the >>>introduction >>>as to why they did the research: >>> >>> Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from >>>life on the European 'mainland', which is our background. One thing that >>>will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living >>>on >>>saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and >>>thus >>>Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of >>>their life within a small, closed community. >>> >>>The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the >>>St. >>>Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island >>>to >>>determine their spatial identity. Their island is a "little whole of >>>humanity", all facilities have to be present on this small island and the >>>entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial >>>scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is >>>limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of >>>TV >>>and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside >>>world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain >>>has >>>a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British >>>identity. >>> >>>But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there >>>are >>>now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting >>>it >>>to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid >>>dependent, >>>and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could >>>bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the >>>increased >>>exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes >>>in >>>the Saints' spatial identities. >>>Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very >>>recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which >>>meant >>>they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of >>>British >>>citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. >>>Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The >>>celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life >>>of >>>Saints expressed. >>> >>>An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the >>>interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide >>>to >>>go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be >>>better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? >>>So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually >>>research? >>> >>> >>>I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send >>>it >>>to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, >>>packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. >>> >>>The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot >>>you >>>took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. >>>I >>>don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have >>>then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and >>>that >>>technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence >>>the >>>attendance of the French Consul. >>> >>> >>>All the best >>> >>>Terry Herbert >>> DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, >>> Australia >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On >>>Behalf >>>Of John and June Vigor >>>Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM >>>To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) >>>Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton >>> >>> >>> >>>All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I >>>were >>>living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right >>>next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we >>>were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of >>>fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le >>>Breton >>>was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. >>> >>>It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of >>>renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we >>>were >>>there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her >>>husband >>>had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy >>>northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would >>>spend >>>about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is >>>in >>>one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above >>>the >>>hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of >>>Jamestown--a >>>nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't >>>working >>>out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town >>>while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were >>>there, >>>though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd >>>probably think hard about selling. >>> >>>Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough >>>to >>>be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to >>>miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so >>>violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. >>> >>>He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the >>>British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and >>>undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. >>> >>>Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he >>>would >>>have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! >>> >>>Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. >>>That's >>>50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to >>>Alaska. >>>Sheesh, don't get me started. >>> >>>John Vigor >>> >>>The S:t Helena Mailing List >>>To unsubscribe please send a email to: >>>list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >>> >>> >>> >>>The S:t Helena Mailing List >>>To unsubscribe please send a email to: >>>list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >>> >>>__________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ >>> >>>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >>>http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>>The S:t Helena Mailing List >>>To unsubscribe please send a email to: >>>list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Live Search, for accurate results! http://www.live.nl >> >> The S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: >> 269.8.1/822 - Release Date: 2007/05/28 11:40 AM >> > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 01:16:29 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:30:13 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <8C9704BB40E0DD0-DC8-8C3B@mblk-r16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <005201c7a247$690ce920$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: flywellretreat@galileosa.co.za ; list@sthelena.se Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Did she get any? -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Mussell To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 1:10 pm Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Heyyyyyyyyy - I resent that !!!!!! ;-)))) Not all south africans are arrogant, that's too much of a generalisation LOL I am one (south african) we're all nice unassuming quiet people here * evil grin * Kind regards Cindy -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John and June Vigor Sent: 29 May 2007 19:12 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Terry, I had to translate an awful lot of scientific gobbledygook in my 30 years as a newspaperman and just reading the snippet you sent us set off the warning signals in my brain. As I said, I haven't read the thesis and I'm probably incapable of understanding it anyway, but there are assumptions in the sample piece you sent that would have me very worried about the Dutch pair's research. For example, what does this mean, exactly: "But at the same time, the increased exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in the Saints' spatial identities." Is a plane-load of tourists going to give Saints a better idea of how big the world is outside their island than, say, a visiting cruise ship with 1,500 passengers? The implication here is that Saints aren't taught geography in school, that they are insular, naive, and closed-minded. I think that's an insult. I met a man on the waterfront who knew the names of all the Union-Castle liners and Safmarine liners that had called at St. Helena on their regular runs since 1936. He remembered details about the Warwick Castle, on which I once worked my passage from Durban to London, and the Edinburgh Castle, on which I traveled as a passenger. And there are many others like him. The Saints travel to Ascension and work with Americans. They travel to the Falklands and probably realize South America is just over the horizon. They mix with people from all over the world. They get medical care in Cape Town. They watch television from overseas that depicts happenings in many foreign countries. They have a war memorial at the seaside with the names of Saints who died in foreign fields. They have a monument in the town gardens that celebrates the island's large role in breaking up the African slave trade. They used to live cheek by jowl with soldiers from all over Britain and of course most of them know what country the red, white, and blue flag outside Longwood represents. Their spatial identity is not restricted to one rock in the middle of the ocean. And a second example: "Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which meant they did not have the right of abode in the UK. That's not entirely accurate. The inhabitants of St. Helena were granted full British citizenship in 1659. It was Maggie Thatcher who arbitrarily and illegally suspended their citizenship rights for a few years and demoted them to second-class citizens via an immigration law that Britons passed when they were scared stiff that a flood of refugees from Hong Kong would descend upon them. Thanks to the sterling efforts of Saints like Basil George, their full citizenship was restored in 2002. If the premise of the Dutch thesis is that Saints have limited contact with the outside world, that is true only in the physical sense, but not in the mental sense that their ability to visualize space outside the island is impaired. They constantly think beyond the island. In fact, there's hardly an island Saint who can't tell you where the RMS is at any given moment. They avidly follow her every move from country to country. Oh, and Terry, you're right about South Africans. I'm not one, but I lived among them for many years, and they are arrogant. That's because they're over-achievers. They have a lot to be arrogant about. Does anyone remember where the world's first heart transplant operation took place? Cheers, John Vigor The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/abd32360/attachment-0001.htm From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 01:16:33 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:30:16 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of SaintHelena - Ma References: <8C9704B97A19CB0-DC8-8C32@mblk-r16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <005701c7a247$6aabcc10$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of SaintHelena - Ma Can you detail the thesis? -----Original Message----- From: maarten hogenstijn To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 1:03 pm Subject: RE: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint Helena - Ma Hi all, Wow, some interest again for the Master's thesis that Dani?l and I did together in 2002. I still read this list on Saint Helena from time to time and just caught op un your discussion. It is good to hear that some of you find in interesting. For the others: I hope you want to read it before commenting on it too much. For your convenience, I have temporarily put it on my own server, where you can download it. You can access it at www.hogenstijn.nl/helena It is about 6,5 MB, like John said. I will remove it again after a week or two. There is no problem with copyrights if you download a copy for yourself. Please do not start printing and distributing it widely. When we did our thesis, a small number of books was printed. We have long run out of them. Three books should be on Saint Helena: one in the library, one in the Governor's office (he requested a copy) and one with Basil George, who helped us a lot when we were there. We'd be interested to hear your comments. After publishing the thesis, we have presented a paper on it at a geographer's conference in London, which finally led to the publication of an article in the scientific journal Tijdschrift voor Sociale en Economische Geografie (TESG). Despite the very Dutch title, this is an English-language scientific journal. You might be able to find it if you have access to a university library. Details: Hogenstijn, M., & Middelkoop, D.P. van (2005). Saint Helena: Citizenship and spatial identities on a remote island. TESG, 96(1), 96-104. After the Saint Helena project, we moved on and Daniel and I are now doing a joint Ph.D project on an entirely different subject (although still in geography). We think the language in the thesis is not too scientific. We tried to draw some scientific conclusions, but also to write about our experiences there. Hope you enjoy your read greeting from the Netherlands, Maarten >From: "John Turner" >Reply-To: John@burghhouse.com,"All about St. Helena - The Island in the >South Atlantic(Eng)" >To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" > >Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of Saint >Helena - Master's thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht - the >Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop " >Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:42:36 -0000 > >If anyone is interested I have an electronic copy of this (and the >authors'' >permission to distribute it). It is indeed fascinating. > >The PDF file is 6.5Mb so I won't email it unless anyone specifically >requests it (direct to me - not via list). > >I also have a synopsis (257Kb). > >JT > >-----Original Message----- >From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf >Of Terry Herbert >Sent: 29 May 2007 02:56 >To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' >Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > >John and all, > >You are indeed correct about the original intentions of the family >occupying >Villa Le Breton now, but those intentions have certainly changed over the >years. The husband comes up (or goes down) from Cape Town a couple of times >a year for extended stays: the wife pops down (or up) to Cape Town and >their >daughter now lives on the island where she teaches and is engaged to a >Saint, so I don't think they'd be too interested in selling. In fact, in >discussing a recent visit they made to Australia, they felt that, given a >choice of living in Australia or St Helena they would choose the latter, >Australia not being 'edgy' enough. > >To change subjects, I read your excellent book Small Boat to Freedom on the >way to the island this year. I bought a copy from Amazon after I had seen >some discussion on this list and thought it would be appropriate reading >for the voyage. I thoroughly enjoyed it an left it aboard as an addition >to >the ship's library so that others might also have the pleasure of reading >it. > >There were a couple of points that I thought I'd raise with you. The first >was why you hadn't included in the Afterword a piece about your third visit >to St Helena. That has now been answered - your visit was after the >publication of the book. But that in turn raises another point - have you >published anything about your six months on the island that we can access? >I'd be most interested in an 'outsider's' view from someone as observant as >you who spent more than the week turnaround there. Talking of which did you >ever see the paper entitled "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens of >Saint Helena - Master?s thesis Human Geography University of Utrecht ? the >Netherlands By Maarten Hogenstijn and Dani?l van Middelkoop "? I know >there >is a copy in the library in Jamestown, so you might have seen it during >your >stay. I found it a fascinating document - this is part of the introduction >as to why they did the research: > > Life in such a remote community must undoubtedly be different from >life on the European ?mainland?, which is our background. One thing that >will be crucially different is the spatial identity of the people living on >saint Helena. There is only limited contact with the outside world, and >thus >Saint Helenians (or Saints, as they call themselves) live most or all of >their life within a small, closed community. > >The island is the highest spatial scale on which the daily life of the St. >Helena citizens takes place. The Saints will also greatly use the island to >determine their spatial identity. Their island is a ?little whole of >humanity?, all facilities have to be present on this small island and the >entire life of the citizens is lived here. The step to a higher spatial >scale is huge and often permanent. Interaction with the outside world is >limited, although there have been some changes with the introduction of TV >and the Internet on the island. This lack of interaction with the outside >world has led to distorted images of this world. For the Saints Britain has >a central place in this outside world: Saints have a strong British >identity. > >But things are changing, even on Saint Helena. After many years, there are >now finally serious plans to build an airport on the island, connecting it >to the outside world more easily. The island is now heavily aid dependent, >and its economy is subsidised by British grant-in-aid. An airport could >bring in tourists and thus development. But at the same time, the increased >exposure to the outside world through the airport could lead to changes in >the Saints? spatial identities. >Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very >recently Saints were citizens of ?British Overseas territories?, which >meant >they did not have the right of abode in the UK. The restoration of British >citizenship allows them to travel to Britain and the EU to work. >Finally, in 2002 Saint Helena celebrates 500 years of discovery. The >celebrations were a great opportunity to see the identity and way of life >of >Saints expressed. > >An interest in the community of a remote, small island coupled with the >interesting developments regarding access and citizenship made us decide to >go to Saint Helena to do research for our final thesis. And what could be >better timing than to go in the period of its quincentenary celebrations? >So off we went on the 6th of March 2002. But what did we actually research? > > >I have a copy of the thesis in Word.doc format and would be happy to send >it >to anyone who is interested, but it is a very large file - about 2.75 Mb, >packing down to about 1.1 Mb in WinZip. > >The second point was what Aussies might regard as a bit of a cheap shot you >took at the French regarding Longwood, and the Tricoleur flying above it. I >don't recall your exact words but it seemed to me that you might not have >then been aware that Britain had actually ceded this land to France and >that >technically it is French territory (at least as I understand it) - hence >the >attendance of the French Consul. > > >All the best > >Terry Herbert > DONCASTER EAST VIC 3109, > Australia > > >-----Original Message----- >From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf >Of John and June Vigor >Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 10:59 AM >To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) >Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Re Villa Le Breton > > > >All this talk about Villa le Breton reminds me that my wife June and I were >living right next door to it at this time last year. Well, perhaps right >next door gives the wrong impression. It was next door all right, but we >were living in Cambrian House, which has a beautiful one-acre garden of >fruit trees, vegetables, and tropical flowering shrubs, and Villa le Breton >was at the bottom of the garden, behind the ancient stone wall. > >It is a gorgeous house, set in a lovely garden, and there was a lot of >renovation work and some additions going on during the three months we were >there. The South African woman who lived there told us she and her husband >had bought it as a winter retreat from those miserably cold and clammy >northwesters that descend on Cape Town. The idea was that they would spend >about five months of each year on St. Helena in Villa le Breton, which is >in >one of the most desirable spots in the island in a quiet backwater above >the >hospital, and just three-quarters of a mile from the heart of Jamestown--a >nice 20-minute walk or a five-minute drive. But their plans weren't working >out exactly as they had wanted, and her husband had to work in Cape Town >while she was there alone for a time. He did join her while we were there, >though. My thinking is that if someone made them a nice offer, they'd >probably think hard about selling. > >Villa le Breton is in what's known as Upper Jamestown, just high enough to >be removed from the muggy heat of Jamestown in summer, and low enough to >miss the cold mists of the higher land that had Bonaparte complaining so >violently to the British authorities and anyone else who would listen. > >He didn't know how lucky he was. He showed no gratitude for the mercy the >British showed him. Blucher wanted to hang him after Waterloo, and >undoubtedly would have done if he'd managed to catch him. > >Bonaparte should have lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do. Then he would >have had something to complain about. Talk about a weather wimp! > >Of course, he's not the only one. I hear it's 10?C in Kloof. Oh, wow. >That's >50 degrees in real money. Positively balmy on the Inside Passage to Alaska. >Sheesh, don't get me started. > >John Vigor > >The S:t Helena Mailing List >To unsubscribe please send a email to: >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > >The S:t Helena Mailing List >To unsubscribe please send a email to: >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > >__________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com > > > >The S:t Helena Mailing List >To unsubscribe please send a email to: >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. _________________________________________________________________ Live Search, for accurate results! http://www.live.nl The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/90df43e3/attachment-0001.htm From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 01:16:38 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:30:20 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <20070529191228.A1432BE8B6@poscpt0h01.cpt.saa.co.za> Message-ID: <005901c7a247$6c6e63a0$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Mussell" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:10 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > Heyyyyyyyyy - I resent that !!!!!! ;-)))) > > Not all south africans are arrogant, that's too much of a generalisation > LOL > > I am one (south african) we're all nice unassuming quiet people here * > evil > grin * > > Kind regards > Cindy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf > Of John and June Vigor > Sent: 29 May 2007 19:12 > To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > > > Terry, I had to translate an awful lot of scientific gobbledygook in my 30 > years as a newspaperman and just reading the snippet you sent us set off > the > warning signals in my brain. > > As I said, I haven't read the thesis and I'm probably incapable of > understanding it anyway, but there are assumptions in the sample piece you > sent that would have me very worried about the Dutch pair's research. > > For example, what does this mean, exactly: > > "But at the same time, the increased exposure to the outside world through > the airport could lead to changes in the Saints' spatial identities." > > Is a plane-load of tourists going to give Saints a better idea of how big > the world is outside their island than, say, a visiting cruise ship with > 1,500 passengers? > > The implication here is that Saints aren't taught geography in school, > that > they are insular, naive, and closed-minded. I think that's an insult. I > met a man on the waterfront who knew the names of all the Union-Castle > liners and Safmarine liners that had called at St. Helena on their regular > runs since 1936. He remembered details about the Warwick Castle, on which > I > once worked my passage from Durban to London, and the Edinburgh Castle, on > which I traveled as a passenger. And there are many others like him. > > The Saints travel to Ascension and work with Americans. They travel to the > Falklands and probably realize South America is just over the horizon. > They > mix with people from all over the world. They get medical care in Cape > Town. > They watch television from overseas that depicts happenings in many > foreign > countries. They have a war memorial at the seaside with the names of > Saints > who died in foreign fields. They have a monument in the town gardens that > celebrates the island's large role in breaking up the African slave trade. > They used to live cheek by jowl with soldiers from all over Britain and of > course most of them know what country the red, white, and blue flag > outside > Longwood represents. Their spatial identity is not restricted to one rock > in > the middle of the ocean. > > And a second example: > > "Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very > recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which > meant > they did not have the right of abode in the UK. > > That's not entirely accurate. The inhabitants of St. Helena were granted > full British citizenship in 1659. It was Maggie Thatcher who arbitrarily > and > illegally suspended their citizenship rights for a few years and demoted > them to second-class citizens via an immigration law that Britons passed > when they were scared stiff that a flood of refugees from Hong Kong would > descend upon them. Thanks to the sterling efforts of Saints like Basil > George, their full citizenship was restored in 2002. > > If the premise of the Dutch thesis is that Saints have limited contact > with > the outside world, that is true only in the physical sense, but not in the > mental sense that their ability to visualize space outside the island is > impaired. They constantly think beyond the island. In fact, there's hardly > an island Saint who can't tell you where the RMS is at any given moment. > They avidly follow her every move from country to country. > > Oh, and Terry, you're right about South Africans. I'm not one, but I lived > among them for many years, and they are arrogant. That's because they're > over-achievers. They have a lot to be arrogant about. Does anyone remember > where the world's first heart transplant operation took place? > > Cheers, > > John Vigor > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 23:42:02 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:30:24 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps References: Message-ID: <004001c7a303$614241b0$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Davenhill To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:42 PM Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps Hi there, I am preparing a feature article in a UK magazine and want to find out something about the usage of higher value postage stamps in St Helena. As there is no airport in St Helena yet, what postal usage do stamps of ?2 and ?3 have? Has anybody any experience of using or seen these denominations actually used for postage, other than for collectors? I would very much appreciate any feedback on this subject. Many thanks, Noel Davenhill No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/819 - Release Date: 26/05/2007 10:47 a.m. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/2a68dd21/attachment-0001.htm From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 23:42:06 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:30:32 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> <7.0.1.0.2.20070530215834.02670518@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <006301c7a303$6dbf6e40$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.G.Robertson" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > At 06:16 AM 30/05/2007, Vivienne Mawson (Dr) wrote: >> "When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their right >> to live in England, unless they had English-born parents or >> grandparents." This statement would read better as > > When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their right to > live in Britain, unless they had British-born parents or grandparents. > > England is England. Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland and > Northern Ireland. > Alastair > Robertson. >> > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 23:42:11 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:30:37 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens ofSaint Helena - Ma References: <000901c7a1de$158c5b00$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <7.0.1.0.2.20070530213502.02541998@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <006e01c7a303$6ea45000$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.G.Robertson" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] "SAINTS - Spatial identities of the citizens ofSaint Helena - Ma > Thank you very much for putting your thesis on your own server > where it is easy to download thereby avoiding ISP limitations on email > size. Printing it covers 202 pages so it will be read by this interested > observer without having to resort to printed pages. > Alastair Robertson 30 May > 07. > > At 03:03 AM 30/05/2007, you wrote: >>Hi all, >> >>Wow, some interest again for the Master's thesis that Dani?l and I did >>together in 2002. >>I still read this list on Saint Helena from time to time and just caught >>op un your discussion. It is good to hear that some of you find in >>interesting. For the others: I hope you want to read it before commenting >>on it too much. >> >>For your convenience, I have temporarily put it on my own server, where >>you can download it. >>You can access it at www.hogenstijn.nl/helena >> >>It is about 6,5 MB, like John said. >>I will remove it again after a week or two. > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 23:42:29 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:30:41 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps References: <001701c7a2f9$f3ab6180$9b96f204@fmk4n> Message-ID: <008f01c7a303$7b04f3e0$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: John and June Vigor To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] postage stamps Noel, surely they're used for parcels. Or doesn't that count as "postage?" You can phone general enquiries at the Jamestown post office at country code 290, number 2652, or the postmistress herself at 2629. John Vigor ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Davenhill To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 12:42 PM Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps Hi there, I am preparing a feature article in a UK magazine and want to find out something about the usage of higher value postage stamps in St Helena. As there is no airport in St Helena yet, what postal usage do stamps of ?2 and ?3 have? Has anybody any experience of using or seen these denominations actually used for postage, other than for collectors? I would very much appreciate any feedback on this subject. Many thanks, Noel Davenhill No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/819 - Release Date: 26/05/2007 10:47 a.m. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/4f7b8338/attachment.htm From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 23:42:46 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:30:45 2007 Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa LeBreton References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000901c7a2ce$220edab0$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <8C970F26514749F-B30-1163@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com><465E2F20.21064.E1868E@thomas.flyingkettle.com> <8C970FC14A15EAC-12AC-B0A8@WEBMAIL-DF13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <009901c7a303$8693a1c0$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: thomas@flyingkettle.com ; list@sthelena.se Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa LeBreton I agree. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Goodey To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Wed, 30 May 2007 7:12 pm Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton On Wed, 30 May 2007, John Turner wrote: > The bill to remove the rights of Commonwealth Citizens was introduced > on 24/02/1971, to come into effect the following January. Britain only > began negotiating to join the 'EEC' (now, EU) on 21/06/1971, and > joined as at 1/1/1973. > > So the two are apparently unrelated. I am sorry, but the last statement above seems to me naive in the extreme. A more realistic scenario would be that depriving the remnant peoples of the Empire of their citizenship was a 'clearing of the decks' in advance of the EEC entry negotiations. I don't myself clearly remember the sequence of events at the time, but that is exactly the kind of thing Heath was doing to help get the UK in. I confidently expect he is getting his punishment now! Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/8dbc7d00/attachment.htm From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 23:42:26 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:30:51 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps References: Message-ID: <008b01c7a303$7a594a90$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] postage stamps > I HAVE BEEN COLLECTING THE STAMPS OF ST. HRLENA FOR SIME TIME AND > HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY OF THE HIGH VALUES USED OTHER THAN ON COVERS FOR > COLLECTORS. IN THE LAST 20 OR SO YEARS ST. HELENA HAS ISSUED A GREAT > NUMBER OF NEW ISSUES TO THE POINT THAT AS OF 2004 THE ST. HELENA POST > OFFICE HAD ISSUED ABOUT 900 DIFFERENT STAMPS SINCE THE 1860'S ALL FOR > A POPULATION OF SOMEWHAT LESS THAN 4000 SOULS. > IT SEEMS THAT THE PURPOSE OF THE POUND VALUES IS THE ENRICHMENT OF > THE TREASURY. AS SUCH I WILL NOT COLLECT ANY ITEMS ISSUED AFTER 1970. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Noel Davenhill > Date: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:56 pm > Subject: [STHELENA] postage stamps > To: list@sthelena.se > >> Hi there, >> >> I am preparing a feature article in a UK magazine and want to find > out >> something about the usage of higher value postage stamps in St >> Helena. As >> there is no airport in St Helena yet, what postal usage do stamps >> of ?2 and >> ?3 have? Has anybody any experience of using or seen these >> denominationsactually used for postage, other than for collectors? >> I would very much >> appreciate any feedback on this subject. Many thanks, Noel >> Davenhill >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/819 - Release Date: >> 26/05/200710:47 a.m. >> >> >> > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 23:42:54 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:30:57 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n> <7.0.1.0.2.20070530215834.02670518@iinet.net.au><000901c7a2ce$220edab0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <8C970F26514749F-B30-1163@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <009c01c7a303$883284b0$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: prporter1@aim.com To: john@burghhouse.com ; list@sthelena.se Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Yes, Misleading. -----Original Message----- From: John Turner To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Sent: Wed, 30 May 2007 9:20 am Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton Better still the statement could have been omitted, as it is inaccurate (or, at best, misleading). The bill to remove the rights of Commonwealth Citizens was introduced on 24/02/1971, to come into effect the following January. Britain only began negotiating to join the 'EEC' (now, EU) on 21/06/1971, and joined as at 1/1/1973. So the two are apparently unrelated. JT -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of A.G.Robertson Sent: 30 May 2007 14:10 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton At 06:16 AM 30/05/2007, Vivienne Mawson (Dr) wrote: > "When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their > right to live in England, unless they had English-born parents or > grandparents." This statement would read better as When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their right to live in Britain, unless they had British-born parents or grandparents. England is England. Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Alastair Robertson. > The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. __________ NOD32 2298 (20070530) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070530/9f8a3111/attachment.htm From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 23:42:50 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:31:01 2007 Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>, <000901c7a2ce$220edab0$2d0b000a@shgbank45>, <8C970F26514749F-B30-1163@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> <465E2F20.21064.E1868E@thomas.flyingkettle.com> Message-ID: <009a01c7a303$87763990$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Goodey" To: Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:12 AM Subject: [SPAM] [STHELENA] [SPAM] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > On Wed, 30 May 2007, John Turner wrote: > >> The bill to remove the rights of Commonwealth Citizens was introduced >> on 24/02/1971, to come into effect the following January. Britain only >> began negotiating to join the 'EEC' (now, EU) on 21/06/1971, and >> joined as at 1/1/1973. >> >> So the two are apparently unrelated. > > I am sorry, but the last statement above seems to me naive in the > extreme. A more realistic scenario would be that depriving the > remnant peoples of the Empire of their citizenship was a 'clearing of > the decks' in advance of the EEC entry negotiations. I don't myself > clearly remember the sequence of events at the time, but that is > exactly the kind of thing Heath was doing to help get the UK in. I > confidently expect he is getting his punishment now! > > Thomas Goodey > > ********************************* > The introduction of a multiplicity > of objectives into a problem not > only destroys its unity, but also > increases markedly both the > time necessary for, and the > actual personal danger involved > in, its solution. > ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII > ************************************** > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 23:42:57 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:31:06 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><002f01c7a1b0$3dda9640$a403f204@fmk4n><7.0.1.0.2.20070530215834.02670518@iinet.net.au> <000901c7a2ce$220edab0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <009f01c7a303$934090e0$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Turner" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 4:20 PM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > Better still the statement could have been omitted, as it is inaccurate > (or, > at best, misleading). > > The bill to remove the rights of Commonwealth Citizens was introduced on > 24/02/1971, to come into effect the following January. > Britain only began negotiating to join the 'EEC' (now, EU) on 21/06/1971, > and joined as at 1/1/1973. > > So the two are apparently unrelated. > > JT > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf > Of A.G.Robertson > Sent: 30 May 2007 14:10 > To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > > At 06:16 AM 30/05/2007, Vivienne Mawson (Dr) wrote: >> "When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their >> right to live in England, unless they had English-born parents or >> grandparents." This statement would read better as > > When Britain joined the EU, all Commonwealth citizens lost their right to > live in Britain, unless they had British-born parents or grandparents. > > England is England. Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland and > Northern Ireland. > Alastair > Robertson. >> > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > __________ NOD32 2298 (20070530) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From olive.shortland at googlemail.com Wed May 30 23:43:16 2007 From: olive.shortland at googlemail.com (Olive Shortland) Date: Fri Jun 1 13:31:10 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton References: <200705290256.l4T2uTea014881@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au><001101c7a214$812e76a0$fa02f304@fmk4n> <000001c7a298$58743d10$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <00a001c7a303$93fa9210$4001a8c0@your447023ae6b> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Turner" To: "'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)'" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:55 AM Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > All Saints are insular just like all Americans are loud and brash, all > British people are cold and uninviting, all Muslims are terrorists, all > Chinese people look alike and all people who generalise about others make > fools of themselves. > > :-) > > > JT > > > -----Original Message----- > From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf > Of John and June Vigor > Sent: 29 May 2007 17:12 > To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) > Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Small Boat To Freedom was......Villa Le Breton > > > Terry, I had to translate an awful lot of scientific gobbledygook in my 30 > years as a newspaperman and just reading the snippet you sent us set off > the > warning signals in my brain. > > As I said, I haven't read the thesis and I'm probably incapable of > understanding it anyway, but there are assumptions in the sample piece you > sent that would have me very worried about the Dutch pair's research. > > For example, what does this mean, exactly: > > "But at the same time, the increased exposure to the outside world through > the airport could lead to changes in the Saints' spatial identities." > > Is a plane-load of tourists going to give Saints a better idea of how big > the world is outside their island than, say, a visiting cruise ship with > 1,500 passengers? > > The implication here is that Saints aren't taught geography in school, > that > they are insular, naive, and closed-minded. I think that's an insult. I > met a man on the waterfront who knew the names of all the Union-Castle > liners and Safmarine liners that had called at St. Helena on their regular > runs since 1936. He remembered details about the Warwick Castle, on which > I > once worked my passage from Durban to London, and the Edinburgh Castle, on > which I traveled as a passenger. And there are many others like him. > > The Saints travel to Ascension and work with Americans. They travel to the > Falklands and probably realize South America is just over the horizon. > They > mix with people from all over the world. They get medical care in Cape > Town. > They watch television from overseas that depicts happenings in many > foreign > countries. They have a war memorial at the seaside with the names of > Saints > who died in foreign fields. They have a monument in the town gardens that > celebrates the island's large role in breaking up the African slave trade. > They used to live cheek by jowl with soldiers from all over Britain and of > course most of them know what country the red, white, and blue flag > outside > Longwood represents. Their spatial identity is not restricted to one rock > in > the middle of the ocean. > > And a second example: > > "Another change on Saint Helena is connected to citizenship. Until very > recently Saints were citizens of "British Overseas territories", which > meant > they did not have the right of abode in the UK. > > That's not entirely accurate. The inhabitants of St. Helena were granted > full British citizenship in 1659. It was Maggie Thatcher who arbitrarily > and > illegally suspended their citizenship rights for a few years and demoted > them to second-class citizens via an immigration law that Britons passed > when they were scared stiff that a flood of refugees from Hong Kong would > descend upon them. Thanks to the sterling efforts of Saints like Basil > George, their full citizenship was restored in 2002. > > If the premise of the Dutch thesis is that Saints have limited contact > with > the outside world, that is true only in the physical sense, but not in the > mental sense that their ability to visualize space outside the island is > impaired. They constantly think beyond the island. In fact, there's hardly > an island Saint who can't tell you where the RMS is at any given moment. > They avidly follow her every move from country to country. > > Oh, and Terry, you're right about South Africans. I'm not one, but I lived > among them for many years, and they are arrogant. That's because they're > over-achievers. They have a lot to be arrogant about. Does anyone remember > where the world's first heart transplant operation took place? > > Cheers, > > John Vigor > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > __________ NOD32 2295 (20070529) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail.