From deird at optusnet.com.au Thu Jan 4 22:44:00 2007 From: deird at optusnet.com.au (Eugene & Deirdre) Date: Thu Jan 4 22:46:25 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re LE BRETON Message-ID: <459D7520.000007.03344@DEIRD> Dear fellow Listers, I am searching for information regarding the Le Breton family, who lived on Saint Helena Island. I have found that Captain Jean (John) Le Breton, master mariner, married on 21.3.1808 Elizabeth Newton at Saint Helena Island So far I have discovered that they had two daughters, names unknown, prior to 1814, and another daughter, Lucy Tracy Le Breton, born 9.6.1815 on Saint Helena Island. I would love to know the names of any children born to Jean and Elizabeth Le Breton, and in particular, their death dates and any additional information. Thanking you in anticipation, Deirdre Blunt, From Australia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070105/f4004e99/attachment.htm From simon.pipe at bbc.co.uk Fri Jan 5 12:33:10 2007 From: simon.pipe at bbc.co.uk (Simon Pipe) Date: Fri Jan 5 12:42:38 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re LE BRETON In-Reply-To: <459D7520.000007.03344@DEIRD> Message-ID: <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A7426@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Pat Le Breton was the best dancer at the Blue Hill invitation dances when I was there ten years ago. He had an ex-wife who kept his name. Pat was also apparently a very good singer and knew a lot of songs that were once popular on the island. I don't think either of them lived at Villa Le Breton in Jamestown, but I may be wrong. Simon Pipe North Oxfordshire reporter BBC Oxford 01295 258039 (no messages) 07834 846022 simon.pipe@bbc.co.uk ________________________________ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Eugene & Deirdre Sent: 04 January 2007 21:44 To: list@sthelena.se Subject: [STHELENA] Re LE BRETON Dear fellow Listers, I am searching for information regarding the Le Breton family, who lived on Saint Helena Island. I have found that Captain Jean (John) Le Breton, master mariner, married on 21.3.1808 Elizabeth Newton at Saint Helena Island. So far I have discovered that they had two daughters, names unknown, prior to 1814, and another daughter, Lucy Tracy Le Breton, born 9.6.1815 on Saint Helena Island. I would love to know the names of any children born to Jean and Elizabeth Le Breton, and in particular, their death dates and any additional information. Thanking you in anticipation, Deirdre Blunt, >From Australia http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070105/e3e8b8aa/attachment.htm From roncroker at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 15:05:00 2007 From: roncroker at gmail.com (Ron Croker) Date: Fri Jan 5 15:06:30 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re LE BRETON References: <459D7520.000007.03344@DEIRD> Message-ID: <004501c730d2$abccce60$0400000a@necversapremium> Not sure if name connected and of interest but there is a house in Upper Jamestown of the vintage described called "Villa Le Breton" Regards Ron Croker Stornoway Scotland. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene & Deirdre To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 9:44 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Re LE BRETON Dear fellow Listers, I am searching for information regarding the Le Breton family, who lived on Saint Helena Island. I have found that Captain Jean (John) Le Breton, master mariner, married on 21.3.1808 Elizabeth Newton at Saint Helena Island. So far I have discovered that they had two daughters, names unknown, prior to 1814, and another daughter, Lucy Tracy Le Breton, born 9.6.1815 on Saint Helena Island. I would love to know the names of any children born to Jean and Elizabeth Le Breton, and in particular, their death dates and any additional information. Thanking you in anticipation, Deirdre Blunt, From Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070105/0b770822/attachment.htm From john.ekwall at mailbox.swipnet.se Fri Jan 26 23:22:53 2007 From: john.ekwall at mailbox.swipnet.se (John Ekwall) Date: Fri Jan 26 23:23:36 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Message-ID: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> Hi there, Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam - 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted itself (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - considering this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each year to keep the list running) - I have come to point where have to decide - is it worthwhile to go on or? I know there are a lot of lists - that also are free - to deal with South Atlantic Islands. I am quite proud that sthelena.se was one of the first to have such a mailing-list (I think we started it in 1997) for STH and TDC. My part in this list has been solely to inform you about about the page, not to discuss any particular issue that may have touched me - although I can have another opinion on the matter. My interest are still quite deep in the island after my visits and contacts there but time changes in interests and activity. Right now I am in the middle of a big project - to digitalize Roland Svensson vaste photo-collection (merely from Tristan da Cunha) - right now I passed 10 Gb in scanned files and still there are at least 30 to do. It is YOU to make the list vivid and wortwhile reading - your thoughts and suggestions. I am afraid that there are just a few placed on St Helena that reads your postings. Nevertheless - if the traffic is below 20 postings a month - I will close the list by December 31st. Any commments on this? Your moderator John Ekwall, Sweden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070126/cae4a1b4/attachment.htm From sea_dragons at earthlink.net Fri Jan 26 23:46:15 2007 From: sea_dragons at earthlink.net (Christopher D. Lewis) Date: Fri Jan 26 23:46:44 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> References: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <320497D3-A541-4A0A-983A-2E23FC8112DE@earthlink.net> On Jan 26, 2007, at 4:22 PM, John Ekwall wrote: > Hi there, > > Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam > - 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted > itself (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - > considering this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each > year to keep the list running) - I have come to point where have to > decide - is it worthwhile to go on or? .... Nevertheless - if the > traffic is below 20 postings a month - I will close the list by > December 31st. Any commments on this? Dear John, I for one found the list very useful in reaching people on St. Helena in advance of arriving, in order to ask questions and be prepared for the trip. Without contact with people familiar with St. Helena, I'd have been unable to learn frankly anything other than from online vendors. Even some of them have been miserable at replying to questions even about how best to pay them money (I threw in the towel and mailed travelers' cheques, since I was unable to ascertain the amount of the handling fee I heard on this list was charged by the intermediary bank handling wires to St. Helena). Access to live persons interested in assisting persons planning travel to St. Helena was a great advantage. The question whether this advantage is something worth your US$75 is another matter. Perhaps someone involved with the SHDA could make a decision whether maintaining a list to facilitate people's information-gathering regarding St. Helena in advance of travel. On the other hand, there are online forums offering discussion of St. Helena (e.g., StHelenaOnline.com), though the hassle of accessing member-only forums is greater than merely observing the incoming email. Other problems with that site include its apparent unwillingness to deal with the more standards-compliant browsers, obliging one either to use a Microsoft product or instruct another product to masquerade as a Microsoft product in order to be served the data on the site. In theory, a forum could be used to replace the mailing list, but .... I for one appreciate your maintaining the list. Some users have rather abused the list either by posting rubbish (e.g., adverts) or by appropriating contributors' writings for republication in for- profit operations such as the St. Helena Independent, but this is not a fault of the list and is equally a risk were a forum or some other tool to be used. The occasional spam that reaches me from the list is of no moment, and those who would steal others' work merely identify themselves to the public as untrustworthy sources (and, when they warn readers that they suspect someone else of being unethical or a thief, they reveal themselves as a particularly entertaining species of hypocrite). There aren't better solutions, in my view, than a mailing list; my question is merely whether there is not a more cost-effective solution. Regardless what you choose to do with the list, John, I salute you for your good work. Very best regards, Chris From prporter1 at aim.com Fri Jan 26 23:45:40 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Fri Jan 26 23:54:50 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> References: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <8C90FB2D6E85126-1110-EB6@MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com> Well, I for one like the list, but have been busy. Anyway, Lets see some information about the nightlife on St. Helena. -----Original Message----- From: john.ekwall@mailbox.swipnet.se To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 3:22 PM Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Hi there, Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam - 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted itself (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - considering this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each year to keep the list running) - I have come to point where have to decide - is it worthwhile to go on or? I know there are a lot of lists - that also are free - to deal with South Atlantic Islands. I am quite proud that sthelena.se was one of the first to have such a mailing-list (I think we started it in 1997) for STH and TDC. My part in this list has been solely to inform you about about the page, not to discuss any particular issue that may have touched me - although I can have another opinion on the matter. My interest are still quite deep in the island after my visits and contacts there but time changes in interests and activity. Right now I am in the middle of a big project - to digitalize Roland Svensso! n vaste photo-collection (merely from Tristan da Cunha) - right now I passed 10 Gb in scanned files and still there are at least 30 to do. It is YOU to make the list vivid and wortwhile reading - your thoughts and suggestions. I am afraid that there are just a few placed on St Helena that reads your postings. Nevertheless - if the traffic is below 20 postings a month - I will close the list by December 31st. Any commments on this? Your moderator John Ekwall, Sweden The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070126/dea9c404/attachment.htm From Cuveerain at aol.com Sat Jan 27 00:10:30 2007 From: Cuveerain at aol.com (Cuveerain@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 27 00:11:05 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Message-ID: Keep it going, it is a very interesting list and very heart warming! Warmest wishes, Lorraine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070126/ce2e92f5/attachment.htm From chayla at chaylasellshouses.com Sat Jan 27 01:19:06 2007 From: chayla at chaylasellshouses.com (Chayla Smith, REALTOR) Date: Sat Jan 27 01:19:35 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> References: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <1560.71.198.105.59.1169857146.squirrel@ihousewebmail.com> I greatly appreciate being able to access this information. Thanks for your hard work and effort to keeping it alive. Maybe you can ask for donations. If each person was willing to contribute $5, that could make it so that no money would come out of pocket. I'd be willing to donate that. :-) Chayla Chayla Smith Multi-Million Dollar Producing Realtor Sampson Realty 510-537-1489 (O) 510-285-7020 (C) > Hi there, > > Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam - > 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted itself > (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - considering > this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each year to keep the > list running) - I have come to point where have to decide - is it > worthwhile to go on or? I know there are a lot of lists - that also are > free - to deal with South Atlantic Islands. I am quite proud that > sthelena.se was one of the first to have such a mailing-list (I think we > started it in 1997) for STH and TDC. My part in this list has been solely > to inform you about about the page, not to discuss any particular issue > that may have touched me - although I can have another opinion on the > matter. My interest are still quite deep in the island after my visits and > contacts there but time changes in interests and activity. Right now I am > in the middle of a big project - to digitalize Roland Svensson vaste > photo-collection (merely from Tristan da Cunha) - right now I passed 10 Gb > in scanned files and still there are at least 30 to do. > It is YOU to make the list vivid and wortwhile reading - your thoughts and > suggestions. I am afraid that there are just a few placed on St Helena > that reads your postings. Nevertheless - if the traffic is below 20 > postings a month - I will close the list by December 31st. Any commments > on this? > > Your moderator > John Ekwall, SwedenThe S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From cplowe at mchsi.com Sat Jan 27 01:58:24 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD) Date: Sat Jan 27 02:00:40 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions References: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <004c01c741ae$41420870$6501a8c0@acer4wc5zk5t43> John I am guilty of avidly reading the contributions of others but rarely chiming in. I have appreciated the list andyour efforts in maintaining it and hope you can continue it. I love to hear from those living on the island and hope other residents might join so we can get more insight into life there Pam ----- Original Message ----- From: John Ekwall To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 5:22 PM Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Hi there, Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam - 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted itself (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - considering this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each year to keep the list running) - I have come to point where have to decide - is it worthwhile to go on or? I know there are a lot of lists - that also are free - to deal with South Atlantic Islands. I am quite proud that sthelena.se was one of the first to have such a mailing-list (I think we started it in 1997) for STH and TDC. My part in this list has been solely to inform you about about the page, not to discuss any particular issue that may have touched me - although I can have another opinion on the matter. My interest are still quite deep in the island after my visits and contacts there but time changes in interests and activity. Right now I am in the middle of a big project - to digitalize Roland Svensson vaste photo-collection (merely from Tristan da Cunha) - right now I passed 10 Gb in scanned files and still there are at least 30 to do. It is YOU to make the list vivid and wortwhile reading - your thoughts and suggestions. I am afraid that there are just a few placed on St Helena that reads your postings. Nevertheless - if the traffic is below 20 postings a month - I will close the list by December 31st. Any commments on this? Your moderator John Ekwall, Sweden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070126/49cf9965/attachment-0001.htm From cplowe at mchsi.com Sat Jan 27 02:02:42 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD) Date: Sat Jan 27 02:02:58 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions References: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> <1560.71.198.105.59.1169857146.squirrel@ihousewebmail.com> Message-ID: <005101c741ae$d9428a00$6501a8c0@acer4wc5zk5t43> I would certainly contribute. I think we will reach the 30 messages this month ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chayla Smith, REALTOR" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions >I greatly appreciate being able to access this information. Thanks for > your hard work and effort to keeping it alive. Maybe you can ask for > donations. If each person was willing to contribute $5, that could make > it so that no money would come out of pocket. I'd be willing to donate > that. > > :-) Chayla > > Chayla Smith > Multi-Million Dollar Producing Realtor > Sampson Realty > 510-537-1489 (O) > 510-285-7020 (C) > >> Hi there, >> >> Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam - >> 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted itself >> (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - considering >> this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each year to keep the >> list running) - I have come to point where have to decide - is it >> worthwhile to go on or? I know there are a lot of lists - that also are >> free - to deal with South Atlantic Islands. I am quite proud that >> sthelena.se was one of the first to have such a mailing-list (I think we >> started it in 1997) for STH and TDC. My part in this list has been solely >> to inform you about about the page, not to discuss any particular issue >> that may have touched me - although I can have another opinion on the >> matter. My interest are still quite deep in the island after my visits >> and >> contacts there but time changes in interests and activity. Right now I am >> in the middle of a big project - to digitalize Roland Svensson vaste >> photo-collection (merely from Tristan da Cunha) - right now I passed 10 >> Gb >> in scanned files and still there are at least 30 to do. >> It is YOU to make the list vivid and wortwhile reading - your thoughts >> and >> suggestions. I am afraid that there are just a few placed on St Helena >> that reads your postings. Nevertheless - if the traffic is below 20 >> postings a month - I will close the list by December 31st. Any commments >> on this? >> >> Your moderator >> John Ekwall, SwedenThe S:t Helena Mailing List >> To unsubscribe please send a email to: >> list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > From ccprp at planet.nl Sat Jan 27 02:22:20 2007 From: ccprp at planet.nl (Rolf Weijburg) Date: Sat Jan 27 02:22:49 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions References: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <004701c741b1$971a0470$0e00000a@rolf276084b285> John, If Chayla Smith, the Multi-Million Dollar Producing Realtor offers you to donate 5 U$, I'll pay the remaining 70. But I think it's not the money, but the work versus the low list-activity that bothers you. I think the list should stay alive, but I can imagine you're starting to wonder if all the work is still worth it. There must be a workable solution though. But it's too late now to think of which. Good night from The Netherlands. Rolf ----- Original Message ----- From: John Ekwall To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:22 PM Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Hi there, Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam - 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted itself (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - considering this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each year to keep the list running) - I have come to point where have to decide - is it worthwhile to go on or? I know there are a lot of lists - that also are free - to deal with South Atlantic Islands. I am quite proud that sthelena.se was one of the first to have such a mailing-list (I think we started it in 1997) for STH and TDC. My part in this list has been solely to inform you about about the page, not to discuss any particular issue that may have touched me - although I can have another opinion on the matter. My interest are still quite deep in the island after my visits and contacts there but time changes in interests and activity. Right now I am in the middle of a big project - to digitalize Roland Svensson vaste photo-collection (merely from Tristan da Cunha) - right now I passed 10 Gb in scanned files and still there are at least 30 to do. It is YOU to make the list vivid and wortwhile reading - your thoughts and suggestions. I am afraid that there are just a few placed on St Helena that reads your postings. Nevertheless - if the traffic is below 20 postings a month - I will close the list by December 31st. Any commments on this? Your moderator John Ekwall, Sweden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070127/134187d1/attachment.htm From nanystrom at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 03:15:29 2007 From: nanystrom at yahoo.com (Nissa Nystrom) Date: Sat Jan 27 03:26:09 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <32200.82422.qm@web54503.mail.yahoo.com> Hello John, I had to laugh when reading Rolf's response to you regarding previous comments and ideas about closing down the list as I had just read Chayla's generous offer and stated the exact same sentiment as Rolf to my daughter right before reading Rolf's response. ha ha ha Chayla you are a hoot! John, it would be a tragedy if the list is shut down. I have so enjoyed reading and participating (whenever I have something to offer) in the banter between the members and also learning so much about the island of St. Helena. This list has not only been a resource of fantastic information about the island but it has also been a forum for people around the world to share their often conflicting views through a common connection. Were it not for the St. Helena list, I dare say the majority of us would never have had the privilege of meeting at all. That quality in itself is priceless. If money is the problem, let us know what it will take. I believe everyone who is a regular on the list would be more than happy to assist. If it is simply an increase in activity you are looking for, I will be making that contribution also. Thank you for all your effort in keeping this list up and running. It has been an extreme pleasure being a member and I hope that I can continue to carry that title. Sincerely, Nissa Nystrom Fargo, ND USA --- John Ekwall wrote: > Hi there, > > Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this > list from spam - 10000s - for years. Now it seems > that the list may have outlisted itself (my > opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so > - considering this and other aspects (i.e. an extra > 75USD for me each year to keep the list running) - I > have come to point where have to decide - is it > worthwhile to go on or? I know there are a lot of > lists - that also are free - to deal with South > Atlantic Islands. I am quite proud that sthelena.se > was one of the first to have such a mailing-list (I > think we started it in 1997) for STH and TDC. My > part in this list has been solely to inform you > about about the page, not to discuss any particular > issue that may have touched me - although I can have > another opinion on the matter. My interest are still > quite deep in the island after my visits and > contacts there but time changes in interests and > activity. Right now I am in the middle of a big > project - to digitalize Roland Svensson vaste > photo-collection (merely from Tristan da Cunha) - > right now I passed 10 Gb in scanned files and still > there are at least 30 to do. > It is YOU to make the list vivid and wortwhile > reading - your thoughts and suggestions. I am afraid > that there are just a few placed on St Helena that > reads your postings. Nevertheless - if the traffic > is below 20 postings a month - I will close the list > by December 31st. Any commments on this? > > Your moderator > John Ekwall, Sweden> The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html From mwelfeld at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 05:37:49 2007 From: mwelfeld at hotmail.com (Martin Welfeld) Date: Sat Jan 27 05:38:24 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: John, I've had the good fortune of being able to visit Ascension, St. Helena and Tristan da Cunha. My visits to those Mid-Atlantic Ridge islands are some of my most pleasant travel memories. I keep them fresh through internet contact with people subscribing to groups like the St. Helena List. It would be a shame if this bridge between so many with shared interest were to close. While not an expert in such matters as confront you, I do have some thoughts: Let's make posting available to members only. This would require the vetting of new applicants, which can be time consuming, so I suggest the appointment of a few "Co-Managers" of the site. These actions should take care of the Spam and Time problems. For years I have been subscribing to a Online Newsletter that is published approx 70 times a year. The cost is $12 per year and I consider it some of the best spent money that leaves my wallet. Since the St. Helena List does not require publishing a newsletter 70 times a year, a Membership in the range of US$5.00 would probably be attractive to the members and cover the site cost. With sufficient membership, the annual fee might even be lowered. Depending on the number of subscribers, the cash flow could also cover the purchase of a membership software package. I'm sure that we have members more technically proficient than myself. Can we hear from the membership in response to my thoughts? Don't feel shy if you want to trash them. I have no pride of authorship; I do wish to stimulate analysis and solution. Marty Welfeld Chicago, USA (Who is moving to Florida next Thursday!) ----Original Message Follows---- From: "John Ekwall" Reply-To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 23:22:53 +0100 Hi there, Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam - 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted itself (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - considering this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each year to keep the list running) - I have come to point where have to decide - is it worthwhile to go on or? I know there are a lot of lists - that also are free - to deal with South Atlantic Islands. I am quite proud that sthelena.se was one of the first to have such a mailing-list (I think we started it in 1997) for STH and TDC. My part in this list has been solely to inform you about about the page, not to discuss any particular issue that may have touched me - although I can have another opinion on the matter. My interest are still quite deep in the island after my visits and contacts there but time changes in interests and activity. Right now I am in the middle of a big project - to digitalize Roland Svensson vaste photo-collection (merely from Tristan da Cunha) - right now I passed 10 Gb in scanned files and still there are at least 30 to do. It is YOU to make the list vivid and wortwhile reading - your thoughts and suggestions. I am afraid that there are just a few placed on St Helena that reads your postings. Nevertheless - if the traffic is below 20 postings a month - I will close the list by December 31st. Any commments on this? Your moderator John Ekwall, Sweden The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au Sat Jan 27 06:50:28 2007 From: ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au (Terry Herbert) Date: Sat Jan 27 06:51:01 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Nightlife .....was inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: <8C90FB2D6E85126-1110-EB6@MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <200701270550.l0R5oTbD000590@mail33.syd.optusnet.com.au> Nightlife on St Helena???? That's a contradiction in terms All the best Terry Herbert Australia _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of prporter1@aim.com Sent: Saturday, 27 January 2007 9:46 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: Re: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Well, I for one like the list, but have been busy. Anyway, Lets see some information about the nightlife on St. Helena. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070127/14923909/attachment-0001.htm From ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au Sat Jan 27 07:03:12 2007 From: ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au (Terry Herbert) Date: Sat Jan 27 07:03:41 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <200701270603.l0R63D3f019308@mail02.syd.optusnet.com.au> Hi John, Although only recently joined, I'm never backward in coming forward with my views I didn't even know about this List, despite having traveled to and from St Helena every year for the past six years, until mention was made of it in one of the two St Helena newspapers, which I read every week. It looked interesting, and I thought that I might make some contribution because of my knowledge of the island, so I signed up and was almost overwhelmed with the postings, so much so that I almost left he List. Then suddenly all went quiet and has remained so ever since. I don't know how many members there are on the List and what they are looking for. I think it would be a pity if it closed down. Perhaps a small add from time to time in the newspapers - surely Mike or Vernon would pop that in for nothing - would attract new Members and stimulate some exchanges? I'll be interested to see the outcome, which will only be in a couple of weeks because my wife and I are off tomorrow night to Sweden and the Baltic States for a quick break from the Australian summer All the best Terry Herbert In Melbourne, Australia _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John Ekwall Sent: Saturday, 27 January 2007 9:23 AM To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Hi there, Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam - 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted itself (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - considering this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each year to keep the list running) - I have come to point where have to decide - is it worthwhile to go on or? I know there are a lot of lists - that also are free - to deal with South Atlantic Islands. I am quite proud that sthelena.se was one of the first to have such a mailing-list (I think we started it in 1997) for STH and TDC. My part in this list has been solely to inform you about about the page, not to discuss any particular issue that may have touched me - although I can have another opinion on the matter. My interest are still quite deep in the island after my visits and contacts there but time changes in interests and activity. Right now I am in the middle of a big project - to digitalize Roland Svensson vaste photo-collection (merely from Tristan da Cunha) - right now I passed 10 Gb in scanned files and still there are at least 30 to do. It is YOU to make the list vivid and wortwhile reading - your thoughts and suggestions. I am afraid that there are just a few placed on St Helena that reads your postings. Nevertheless - if the traffic is below 20 postings a month - I will close the list by December 31st. Any commments on this? Your moderator John Ekwall, Sweden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070127/1b16b921/attachment.htm From jeff.taylor-jackson at tiscali.co.uk Sat Jan 27 10:05:50 2007 From: jeff.taylor-jackson at tiscali.co.uk (Jeff@tiscali) Date: Sat Jan 27 10:05:14 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45BB15EE.5000007@tiscali.co.uk> Hi John, I just thought the link was broken, it has happened to me before! I have looked at the list just about every day, but the recent threads have not been anything I could contribute to. Anyone on the list that has any information about Thomas Jackson who ran the Chemist in Jamestown from around 1860 to about 1918, or his son Thomas Kipling Jackson who was born in Jamestown Valentines day 1869 I would be extremely interested. Also I would like to know any information on Thomas snr's first wife Mary Ann Ackely who died in Jamestown 1887. My aim in life: to visit St. Helena. It will happen, it's just when. Kind regards Jeff Taylor- Jackson Poole England > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "John Ekwall" > Reply-To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South > Atlantic(Eng)" > To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" > > Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions > Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 23:22:53 +0100 > > Hi there, > > Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam - > 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted > itself (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - > considering this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each > year to keep the list running) - I have come to point where have to > decide - is it worthwhile to go on or? I know there are a lot of lists > - that also are free - to deal with South Atlantic Islands. I am quite > proud that sthelena.se was one of the first to have such a > mailing-list (I think we started it in 1997) for STH and TDC. My part > in this list has been solely to inform you about about the page, not > to discuss any particular issue that may have touched me - although I > can have another opinion on the matter. My interest are still quite > deep in the island after my visits and contacts there but time changes > in interests and activity. Right now I am in the middle of a big > project - to digitalize Roland Svensson vaste photo-collection (merely > from Tristan da Cunha) - right now I passed 10 Gb in scanned files and > still there are at least 30 to do. > It is YOU to make the list vivid and wortwhile reading - your thoughts > and suggestions. I am afraid that there are just a few placed on St > Helena that reads your postings. Nevertheless - if the traffic is > below 20 postings a month - I will close the list by December 31st. > Any commments on this? > > Your moderator > John Ekwall, Sweden > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > From Reino.Bauer at t-online.de Sat Jan 27 14:34:37 2007 From: Reino.Bauer at t-online.de (Reino Bauer) Date: Sat Jan 27 14:35:07 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> References: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <45BB54ED.5080303@bigfoot.com> Hallo Saints and friends of...., It has happened before. As soon as somebody is posting many replies come in. A proof that an interested community is there. It seems only that not many issues are regularly worth to be discussed? In my opinion one of the factors that limits the usage of this mailing list is that there are only a few people living on SH who participate. Not a surprise when you consider the appalling internet service provided on the island. I joined the list last year when I planned to go with the RMS on voyage 91. And some information I got this way was good then and would be so also in future. It was on the internet kiosk in the Consulate where I managed in 10 minutes just to open one email and the pound was gone. To have a place like this one to exchange information and opinions is a good thing. And the effort made by John Ekwall can not be recognized enough. It is up to you John to judge whether it is worth the wile or not. It is probably not the financial burden that counts, in which many would also like to join, rather the time consumed. My 2 ?-cents on this issue. Greetings to all on and off Saint Helena. Reino Bauer. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070127/f01901b9/attachment.htm From prporter1 at aim.com Sat Jan 27 15:54:13 2007 From: prporter1 at aim.com (prporter1@aim.com) Date: Sat Jan 27 15:54:48 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Nightlife .....was inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: <200701270550.l0R5oTbD000590@mail33.syd.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <8C9103A24A2D52D-1110-2246@MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com> Maybe it is a relative term compared to where you live. I would still like to hear about what the people do there. -----Original Message----- From: ghenesh_49@optusnet.com.au To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:50 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Nightlife .....was inactive list - conclusions Nightlife on St Helena???? That?s a contradiction in terms All the best Terry Herbert Australia From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of prporter1@aim.com Sent: Saturday, 27 January 2007 9:46 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: Re: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Well, I for one like the list, but have been busy. Anyway, Lets see some information about the nightlife on St. Helena. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070127/49001fa0/attachment.htm From Hdchucker at aol.com Sat Jan 27 19:46:09 2007 From: Hdchucker at aol.com (Hdchucker@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 27 19:55:24 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Message-ID: I am not terribly surprised at what conclusion John reached as far as the mailing list is concerned. When you are dealing with a place that evolves as slowly as St. Helena does, and are wanting to only have things on the list that concern St. Helena, you are naturally going to have a low amount of traffic. St. Helena is, by itself, self-limiting One thing struck in my mind, and that was his statement of eliminating "SPAM." Just what, exactly, was he talking about. I don't know if the Spam was: 1) advertisement type stuff; 2) or just comments that those on the list had thrown up just to comment on that he determined were Spam. It made me wonder, if it was item #2, that perhaps he was somewhat limiting the scope of the list a little too much. I rather doubt if there are many "kids" that would ever be attracted to the site and since we here are all interested in St. Helena, that alone would filter most people. So, I would like to point out that we could discuss things that don't necessarily have St. Helena as its subject. I was once a great fan of a website that the controller of it liked to say that his site was a "breath of fresh air." The site finally went out of existence, even though it had a lot of personage, simply because people got to where the single subject had been worked to death, to a certain extent, and the controller got so upset at other subjects being interjected into the mix. The controller got mad and shut it all down. The point here is that the site attracted a lot of people who shared other interests besides just the prime subject. Friends were made. Also, if you stare at one object too long you limit your view. Good ideas can pass you by because you are shut off to anything other than what you think has validity at the time. When in fact, an idea from some other place could be utilized for your benefit In closing I would also like to say that I have known other's who ran websites and the like. They grew tried of it and it seemed to them that their website had changed in the type of people who visited it, and/or what they had to say; when, for the most part nothing had changed. Peace Officers suffer much the same thing as they only get to deal with the bad side of humanity and they become jaded as a result; but, it is only human to do so. If John has been deleting subjects that he thinks do not adhere strictly to St. Helena, he might try to allow some to get through and let other subjects that are a little outside St. Helena into the conversation; it might spike up things. I think we are mature group of people, here, and just as other websites have allowed me to make friends, from all over the world, the St. Helena website could be similar. Remember, we all have the ability to delete SPAM, and I wonder if the situation couldn't be improved if we, on the outside, were able to perform our own SPAM control; after-all, the delete button is only a couple seconds and a short finger push away. It is a rather boring day when I open my email and find nothing or very little there. Just an idea to help. I cannot imagine me ever being able to go and visit St. Helena, but that doesn't mean that I am not interested in the place, or that I don't care. Hope all is well Chuk Washburn Coachella Valley California, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070127/5757098d/attachment.htm From sea_dragons at earthlink.net Sat Jan 27 20:18:59 2007 From: sea_dragons at earthlink.net (Christopher D. Lewis) Date: Sat Jan 27 20:19:23 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 27, 2007, at 12:46 PM, Hdchucker@aol.com wrote: > I am not terribly surprised at what conclusion John reached as far > as the mailing list is concerned. When you are dealing with a > place that evolves as slowly as St. Helena does, and are wanting to > only have things on the list that concern St. Helena, you are > naturally going to have a low amount of traffic. St. Helena is, by > itself, self-limiting > > One thing struck in my mind, and that was his statement of > eliminating "SPAM." Just what, exactly, was he talking about. I > don't know if the Spam was: 1) advertisement type stuff; 2) or > just comments that those on the list had thrown up just to comment > on that he determined were Spam. When John talks about deleting tens of thousands of emails, I don't think he means discussing RMS shipping rates instead of the St. Helena night life or the importance of its domestic policy development as an attractor of business that will help it sustain itself. I think he's talking about unsolicited emails from server farms set to peddle viagra on the Internet. I now understand why I have never seen an email published to the list that I sent accidentally from a non-registered email address: he can't find the real emails among the deluge of adverts for penis enlargement solutions. If the list will be shut down -- and I hope some creative solution is devised to prevent the little community here from being disbanded, whatever that solution may be -- perhaps we should take the opportunity to discuss what is going right with St. Helena and what its challenges seem to be, to promote a better understanding both of what's going on there and what may require a prompt visit before some beloved feature is lost. If the list is an asset in assisting people to plan travel to St. Helena (as it was for me) and in establishing contacts with people knowledgeable about life and business on the island, it may be that working with SHDA may be a route to keep it supported. A connection with SHDA may even lead to more involvement of actual Saints on the list, rather than it being chiefly a fan club comprised of off- islanders looking in, with the occasional local adding genuine insight like a magician revealing an intact assistant reassembled from sawed boxes. Hmm, somebody sells coffee on St. Helena, and I bought some as a gift for my sister and she loved it once I brought it back. It's cold here in Texas at the moment, and I think I'll make myself a nice hot cup. Very best regards, Chris From Reino.Bauer at t-online.de Sat Jan 27 23:01:31 2007 From: Reino.Bauer at t-online.de (Reino Bauer) Date: Sat Jan 27 23:02:05 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45BBCBBB.8020209@bigfoot.com> On Jan 27, 2007, at 12:46 PM, Hdchucker@aol.com wrote: >> >> One thing struck in my mind, and that was his statement of >> eliminating "SPAM." Just what, exactly, was he talking about. I >> don't know if the Spam was: 1) advertisement type stuff; 2) or just >> comments that those on the list had thrown up just to comment on that >> he determined were Spam. This comment urges for a reply. This and the rest of it sounds as if John Eckwall was the culprit, as if he was not able to distinguish between a relevant posting and spam. Such a comment is uncalled for and does not do justice to John who established this mailing list. Reino. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070127/7227434b/attachment-0001.htm From cliffwoodroffe at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 23:23:53 2007 From: cliffwoodroffe at hotmail.com (Clifford Woodroffe) Date: Sat Jan 27 23:24:31 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions References: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: I would like to thank John for all his work on the list, which at times must seem to be overbearing in comparason to the amount of discussion taking place. Before I left for St Helena in 2005 I found this list invaluable and am most grateful for the advice received and the effort expended in maintaining the list. If it were a case of a small membership fee, I too would be most amenable. Clifford ----- Original Message ----- From: John Ekwall To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:22 PM Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Hi there, Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam - 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted itself (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - considering this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each year to keep the list running) - I have come to point where have to decide - is it worthwhile to go on or? I know there are a lot of lists - that also are free - to deal with South Atlantic Islands. I am quite proud that sthelena.se was one of the first to have such a mailing-list (I think we started it in 1997) for STH and TDC. My part in this list has been solely to inform you about about the page, not to discuss any particular issue that may have touched me - although I can have another opinion on the matter. My interest are still quite deep in the island after my visits and contacts there but time changes in interests and activity. Right now I am in the middle of a big project - to digitalize Roland Svensson vaste photo-collection (merely from Tristan da Cunha) - right now I passed 10 Gb in scanned files and still there are at least 30 to do. It is YOU to make the list vivid and wortwhile reading - your thoughts and suggestions. I am afraid that there are just a few placed on St Helena that reads your postings. Nevertheless - if the traffic is below 20 postings a month - I will close the list by December 31st. Any commments on this? Your moderator John Ekwall, Sweden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070127/f5d05d43/attachment.htm From ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au Sun Jan 28 00:32:05 2007 From: ghenesh_49 at optusnet.com.au (Terry Herbert) Date: Sun Jan 28 00:32:40 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Nightlife .....was inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: <8C9103A24A2D52D-1110-2246@MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <200701272332.l0RNW5jc014293@mail22.syd.optusnet.com.au> I suppose I shouldn't try to joke on the Internet, especially with someone I don't know, but really, from my experience there is really not much night life on St Helena compared to anywhere!! Perhaps we need to distinguish between the 'ship weeks' when we non-Saints are in town. Then the choices for a meal are to go to one of the four eateries that are open - only Donny's stays open lateish - or to one of the two hotels in town. Although things are changing somewhat it has until now been wise to check with the eatery to ensure that they will be open and that they will have room for you. One of the less good memories was a night when we went down to Anne's and found that she had a big party on, so we were served with fish fingers and frozen veggies - not really what we had in mind for island cuisine. Then there are the three pubs which do a literally roaring trade, especially on Thursday and Friday evenings. Seems the Consulate has clamped down a bit on the noise levels during ship week following complaints from residents but, so I'm told there are some good evenings there once the visitors have gone. Out of town there are a couple of night clubs with local DJs and occasional live music - check out the local newspaper The Saint Helena Independent at http://www.saint.fm/Independent/index.htm for the details. And that's about it. Generally, apart from some of the youngsters hooning up and down Main Street Jamestown cloes down from about 10 ish until the bakers get going at about 4.30 the following morning. As I say that's based on our personal experience - others may have different ones. All the best Terry Herbert Australia _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of prporter1@aim.com Sent: Sunday, 28 January 2007 1:54 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Nightlife .....was inactive list - conclusions Maybe it is a relative term compared to where you live. I would still like to hear about what the people do there. -----Original Message----- From: ghenesh_49@optusnet.com.au To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:50 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Nightlife .....was inactive list - conclusions Nightlife on St Helena???? That's a contradiction in terms All the best Terry Herbert Australia _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of prporter1@aim.com Sent: Saturday, 27 January 2007 9:46 AM To: list@sthelena.se Subject: Re: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Well, I for one like the list, but have been busy. Anyway, Lets see some information about the nightlife on St. Helena. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070128/f56e355c/attachment-0001.htm From g.tordini at tiscali.it Sun Jan 28 08:15:21 2007 From: g.tordini at tiscali.it (giuliano tordini) Date: Sun Jan 28 08:16:23 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions References: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <005201c742ac$14d303d0$d64add54@ESSEDI> Dear John Ekwall, It would be a pity to stop the list. La list is very usefull, becouse: 1. we can get a lot of information, which will be impossible to have in an other way; I for me only through the list understood that is not possible to leave the boat in Jamestown. 2. The members of the list, nevertheless they live so far from each other, they are part of a group, a kind of family, and some of them have started a friendship. We all live in a world, which disjoint the human relations, and becouse of this we like, we all, to belong to a group, and have the reasonable sureness that tomorrow the dear persons will stay still in the same place-address. When you startet this affair, it was impossible to know that it will be so exacting, and it is understandable that you are tired. Therefore could be usefull to try a technical solution, like somebody has prposed, to pay a little money to commit to an expert the management of the list, under your supervision. I hope to receive still mail from the list, becouse I intend to visit SH sooner or later, by my boat or by ship. Greetings to everybody. Giuliano ----- Original Message ----- From: John Ekwall To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:22 PM Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Hi there, Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam - 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted itself (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - considering this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each year to keep the list running) - I have come to point where have to decide - is it worthwhile to go on or? I know there are a lot of lists - that also are free - to deal with South Atlantic Islands. I am quite proud that sthelena.se was one of the first to have such a mailing-list (I think we started it in 1997) for STH and TDC. My part in this list has been solely to inform you about about the page, not to discuss any particular issue that may have touched me - although I can have another opinion on the matter. My interest are still quite deep in the island after my visits and contacts there but time changes in interests and activity. Right now I am in the middle of a big project - to digitalize Roland Svensson vaste photo-collection (merely from Tristan da Cunha) - right now I passed 10 Gb in scanned files and still there are at least 30 to do. It is YOU to make the list vivid and wortwhile reading - your thoughts and suggestions. I am afraid that there are just a few placed on St Helena that reads your postings. Nevertheless - if the traffic is below 20 postings a month - I will close the list by December 31st. Any commments on this? Your moderator John Ekwall, Sweden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070128/dd3824ab/attachment.htm From jde at cryptic1.globalnet.co.uk Sun Jan 28 10:23:35 2007 From: jde at cryptic1.globalnet.co.uk (Jim) Date: Sun Jan 28 10:24:14 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Inactive List Message-ID: <20070128092338.006C32BC4FC@sc-outsmtp1.homechoice.co.uk> I do sympathize. I am a programmer and run quite a few websites. I am prepared to make an offer that could help. Why not set this up as a blog? I am happy to do this and as I am Technical Director of a software company I would donate the space on our servers so there would be no hosting costs. The only cost would be a domain name (around $10 per year). Just a thought and an offer...... From cplowe at mchsi.com Sun Jan 28 17:59:18 2007 From: cplowe at mchsi.com (C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD) Date: Sun Jan 28 18:05:26 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Inactive List References: <20070128092338.006C32BC4FC@sc-outsmtp1.homechoice.co.uk> Message-ID: <015b01c742fd$a8aa9860$6801a8c0@Pam> Sounds like a wonderful ofer to me. I am not sure how this all works but does a blog free John (and you)from the chores associated with maintaining the list? If this is so, then your offer might be the perfect solution. Thank you. Pam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 4:23 AM Subject: [STHELENA] Inactive List >I do sympathize. I am a programmer and run quite a few websites. I am >prepared to make an offer that could help. > > Why not set this up as a blog? I am happy to do this and as I am Technical > Director of a software company I would donate the space on our servers so > there would be no hosting costs. The only cost would be a domain name > (around $10 per year). > > Just a thought and an offer...... > > The S:t Helena Mailing List > To unsubscribe please send a email to: > list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. > From sea_dragons at earthlink.net Sun Jan 28 18:16:53 2007 From: sea_dragons at earthlink.net (Christopher D. Lewis) Date: Sun Jan 28 18:17:19 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Inactive List In-Reply-To: <015b01c742fd$a8aa9860$6801a8c0@Pam> References: <20070128092338.006C32BC4FC@sc-outsmtp1.homechoice.co.uk> <015b01c742fd$a8aa9860$6801a8c0@Pam> Message-ID: On Jan 28, 2007, at 10:59 AM, C. Pamela Lowe-Hoyte, MD wrote: > Sounds like a wonderful ofer to me. I am not sure how this all > works but does a blog free John (and you)from the chores associated > with maintaining the list? If this is so, then your offer might be > the perfect solution. Thank you. My question would be -- since John does not personally provide most of the text crossing the list -- who would be writing the blog entries. Would it be a membership-based site, with all members adding entries and commenting on entries? Discussing how this would work might allow John to appreciate exactly what he'd be getting himself into, and enable list members to understand what the proposed future holds. One advantage of a blog would be a recorded history for new members to examine for topics already discussed on the list. Best regards, Chris From jde at cryptic1.globalnet.co.uk Sun Jan 28 18:50:28 2007 From: jde at cryptic1.globalnet.co.uk (Jim) Date: Sun Jan 28 18:51:14 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Inactive List Message-ID: <20070128175046.5BCCE1EC165@sc-outsmtp2.homechoice.co.uk> I would suggest that people join the blog - simple and free process that validates their emails. Then anyone can start a discussion thread or join in on one. We - www.tdbonline.com - do this all the time From wendycrowie at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jan 28 20:05:58 2007 From: wendycrowie at yahoo.co.uk (Wendy Crowie) Date: Sun Jan 28 20:06:29 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Crowie Message-ID: <36958.77917.qm@web25601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> I am writing on behalf of my husband andrew crowie. we are trying to trace members of his family, his grandfather Gerald Albert Crowie was an islander who we beleive came over to the uk in the 50's 60's qand married his grandmother. Unfortunatly he passed away some 23 / 24 years ago when my husband was 5/6. He would like to trace anyone who may know of his grandfather or other members of the family who may know of him. regards wendie ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070128/db464242/attachment.htm From bootslu1045 at hotmail.co.uk Sun Jan 28 21:20:19 2007 From: bootslu1045 at hotmail.co.uk (jason zielinski) Date: Sun Jan 28 21:20:52 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Crowie In-Reply-To: <36958.77917.qm@web25601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: my father in law goes by the surname of crowie he was born in st helena in the part of longwood and came to th uk in the 60s he was wondering if your grandfather had a nickname or where he grew up on st helena because it would help him better if he does know him regards jason >From: Wendy Crowie >Reply-To: "All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)" > >To: list@sthelena.se >Subject: [STHELENA] Crowie >Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:05:58 +0000 (GMT) > >I am writing on behalf of my husband andrew crowie. we are trying to trace >members of his family, his grandfather Gerald Albert Crowie was an islander >who we beleive came over to the uk in the 50's 60's qand married his >grandmother. > >Unfortunatly he passed away some 23 / 24 years ago when my husband was 5/6. >He would like to trace anyone who may know of his grandfather or other >members of the family who may know of him. > >regards > >wendie > > > >___________________________________________________________ >To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! >Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com >The S:t Helena Mailing List >To unsubscribe please send a email to: >list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail, News, Sport and Entertainment from MSN on your mobile. http://www.msn.txt4content.com/ From manager at sainthelenabank.com Mon Jan 29 09:28:09 2007 From: manager at sainthelenabank.com (Manager, Bank of St. Helena) Date: Mon Jan 29 09:31:55 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions In-Reply-To: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> References: <002e01c74198$8f67d6d0$4c8ffc53@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <00f101c7437f$6d032a20$2d0b000a@shgbank45> John, I notice from your inbox that your message has prompted a flurry of activity, so perhaps you are no longer considering shutting the list down. You mention USD75 per annum as the cost of the list. Are you aware that Yahoo (and others) offer free list hosting? If you want to know more go to http://www.yahoo.com/ and click on Groups (menu on left hand side). I have used Yahoo for groups such as the St. Helena List and find it generally reliable, though you do have to put up with adverts being added to the messages. I hope that helps. All the best, John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. _____ From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of John Ekwall Sent: 26 January 2007 22:23 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Hi there, Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam - 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted itself (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - considering this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each year to keep the list running) - I have come to point where have to decide - is it worthwhile to go on or? I know there are a lot of lists - that also are free - to deal with South Atlantic Islands. I am quite proud that sthelena.se was one of the first to have such a mailing-list (I think we started it in 1997) for STH and TDC. My part in this list has been solely to inform you about about the page, not to discuss any particular issue that may have touched me - although I can have another opinion on the matter. My interest are still quite deep in the island after my visits and contacts there but time changes in interests and activity. Right now I am in the middle of a big project - to digitalize Roland Svensson vaste photo-collection (merely from Tristan da Cunha) - right now I passed 10 Gb in scanned files and still there are at least 30 to do. It is YOU to make the list vivid and wortwhile reading - your thoughts and suggestions. I am afraid that there are just a few placed on St Helena that reads your postings. Nevertheless - if the traffic is below 20 postings a month - I will close the list by December 31st. Any commments on this? Your moderator John Ekwall, Sweden __________ NOD32 2015 (20070128) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070129/bd241765/attachment-0001.htm From manager at sainthelenabank.com Mon Jan 29 09:34:34 2007 From: manager at sainthelenabank.com (Manager, Bank of St. Helena) Date: Mon Jan 29 09:38:20 2007 Subject: FW: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions Message-ID: <00fc01c74380$58081cb0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Chris (and all), You should always be able to pay a vendor in St.?Helena from anywhere in the world via the Bank of St. Helena as long as the vendor will give you their Bank of St. Helena account number. You simply ask your home bank to credit funds (in Sterling - GBP) to our Lloyds TSB account in London (as described on our website) and whatever arrives there we will credit to the vendor's account without any deductions. Your bank should be able to tell you what value in your local currency to send to achieve a specific GBP value at the receiving end. Regards, John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Christopher D. Lewis Sent: 26 January 2007 22:46 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] inactive list - conclusions On Jan 26, 2007, at 4:22 PM, John Ekwall wrote: > Hi there, > > Almost every day out and day in I have cleaned this list from spam > - 10000s - for years. Now it seems that the list may have outlisted > itself (my opinion). There hasn't been any activity lately - so - > considering this and other aspects (i.e. an extra 75USD for me each > year to keep the list running) - I have come to point where have to > decide - is it worthwhile to go on or? .... Nevertheless - if the > traffic is below 20 postings a month - I will close the list by > December 31st. Any commments on this? Dear John, I for one found the list very useful in reaching people on St. Helena in advance of arriving, in order to ask questions and be prepared for the trip. Without contact with people familiar with St. Helena, I'd have been unable to learn frankly anything other than from online vendors. Even some of them have been miserable at replying to questions even about how best to pay them money (I threw in the towel and mailed travelers' cheques, since I was unable to ascertain the amount of the handling fee I heard on this list was charged by the intermediary bank handling wires to St. Helena). Access to live persons interested in assisting persons planning travel to St. Helena was a great advantage. The question whether this advantage is something worth your US$75 is another matter. Perhaps someone involved with the SHDA could make a decision whether maintaining a list to facilitate people's information-gathering regarding St. Helena in advance of travel. On the other hand, there are online forums offering discussion of St. Helena (e.g., StHelenaOnline.com), though the hassle of accessing member-only forums is greater than merely observing the incoming email. Other problems with that site include its apparent unwillingness to deal with the more standards-compliant browsers, obliging one either to use a Microsoft product or instruct another product to masquerade as a Microsoft product in order to be served the data on the site. In theory, a forum could be used to replace the mailing list, but .... I for one appreciate your maintaining the list. Some users have rather abused the list either by posting rubbish (e.g., adverts) or by appropriating contributors' writings for republication in for- profit operations such as the St. Helena Independent, but this is not a fault of the list and is equally a risk were a forum or some other tool to be used. The occasional spam that reaches me from the list is of no moment, and those who would steal others' work merely identify themselves to the public as untrustworthy sources (and, when they warn readers that they suspect someone else of being unethical or a thief, they reveal themselves as a particularly entertaining species of hypocrite). There aren't better solutions, in my view, than a mailing list; my question is merely whether there is not a more cost-effective solution. Regardless what you choose to do with the list, John, I salute you for your good work. Very best regards, Chris The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From manager at sainthelenabank.com Mon Jan 29 11:08:35 2007 From: manager at sainthelenabank.com (Manager, Bank of St. Helena) Date: Mon Jan 29 11:12:15 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Junk Emails Message-ID: <014a01c7438d$73775a80$2d0b000a@shgbank45> As the subject was raised in John's posting .... At the bank I receive the usual crop of junk emails - on average 25 per day. Fortunately our systems are advanced enough to 'sandbox' most of them, but I do regularly have a quick scan through before deleting them, in case any real emails have got into there by accident. So I know what they contain. I assume that junk emails are all computer generated with no human intervention. I have to assume this because if they are actually sent by real people these must be some of the dumbest people on the planet. Apparently the junk-mailers believe that the bank: - auctions things on eBay, and so needs to respond to enquiries from purchasers. (What could we auction? Banknotes? Loans to the highest bidder?) - has applied for a personal loan - needs Viagra, various other drugs and a penis extension (I suppose we could put the little blue pills into our computer to see if it stops it from 'going down' ...) - needs to lose weight - has online accounts with just about every bank in America that need identity verification - undertakes covert transactions to smuggle war-profits out of conflict zones in exchange for a proportion of the proceeds (I haven't checked but I'm sure that would be contrary to the terms of our banking licence) All the best from the island, John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070129/30a0b170/attachment.htm From manager at sainthelenabank.com Tue Jan 30 10:40:41 2007 From: manager at sainthelenabank.com (Manager, Bank of St. Helena) Date: Tue Jan 30 11:16:05 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Thoughts on Trade Licensing Message-ID: <005a01c74452$b894e040$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Given that this list has participants from all around the world I'd be interested to hear others' experiences relevant to the Trade Licensing debate. The background (for those unfamiliar with it) is that, for certain types of business on St. Helena, before you can start a new business you need to apply for a licence. Your request is published for 31 days in the Gazette and, if nobody objects, you get your licence. this is not the same a a fire certificate, or public health certificate, both of which you may also need. It's just a permit to trade. LegCo was asked yesterday to repel this legislation, on the grounds that it impedes the growth of new businesses, but was unable to make a decision. The Chamber of Commerce supports the repeal of the legislation, but not all of the public do (for reasons that are not clear to me and your inputs may help me to understand this). Apparently the law has a few quirks: butchers need licenses but bakers do not (what happens to candlestick-makers I'm not sure). And Non-Saints who have a work permit do not need licenses for things that a Saint would. Also, apparently, one of the major objections to the law is that it is anti-competitive. If you want to set up a shop to compete with the existing ones, they have the right to object to your licence application. So that's - as I understand it - the situation here. How is it where you are? Regards, John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070130/1f8deb56/attachment.htm From manager at sainthelenabank.com Tue Jan 30 16:46:58 2007 From: manager at sainthelenabank.com (Manager, Bank of St. Helena) Date: Tue Jan 30 16:51:25 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Government at its best Message-ID: <00a801c74485$f3c854c0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> I just received an email from SHG which reads: "Please ignore this email, the correct one will follow shortly. Many Thanks" I think someone has been taking too many pills ......... John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070130/afdba4e0/attachment.htm From thomas at flyingkettle.com Tue Jan 30 15:51:45 2007 From: thomas at flyingkettle.com (Thomas Goodey) Date: Tue Jan 30 16:52:14 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Thoughts on Trade Licensing In-Reply-To: <005a01c74452$b894e040$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <005a01c74452$b894e040$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <45BF6991.15540.1576C0@thomas.flyingkettle.com> On 30 Jan 2007 at 9:40, Manager, Bank of St. Helena wrote: > LegCo was asked yesterday to repel this legislation, on the grounds that it > impedes the growth of new businesses....apparently, one of the major > objections to the law is that it is anti-competitive. If you want to set up > a shop to compete with the existing ones, they have the right to object to > your licence application. It's an obvious sort of restrictive practice of the type that ought to be totally forbidden in a free country, but St. Helena is not a free country, because it is ruled by decree and has no Parliament representation, so I am not sure what is the best way to proceed... Thomas Goodey ********************************* The introduction of a multiplicity of objectives into a problem not only destroys its unity, but also increases markedly both the time necessary for, and the actual personal danger involved in, its solution. ------------ Nadreck of Palain VII ************************************** From sea_dragons at earthlink.net Tue Jan 30 17:54:55 2007 From: sea_dragons at earthlink.net (Christopher D. Lewis) Date: Tue Jan 30 17:55:21 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Thoughts on Trade Licensing In-Reply-To: <005a01c74452$b894e040$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <005a01c74452$b894e040$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: On Jan 30, 2007, at 3:40 AM, Manager, Bank of St. Helena wrote: > The background (for those unfamiliar with it) is that, for certain > types of business on St. Helena, before you can start a new > business you need to apply for a licence. Your request is > published for 31 days in the Gazette and, if nobody objects, you > get your licence. this is not the same a a fire certificate, or > public health certificate, both of which you may also need. It's > just a permit to trade. This is something that Deeptrek's Bernie McDonald described as likely attributable to St. Helena's history as an outpost of the British East India Company. The Company's monopoly on the East Indies trade effectively made private enterprise by its personnel an affront to the Company's rights and economic position. Protection of the Company's monopoly resulted in a culture of control: everything was forbidden unless explicitly permitted. In some places, private enterprise is forbidden altogether. In other places, it's tolerated so long as it does not conflict with state enterprise or objectives. There are places that claim to hold private enterprise as a great public benefit, driving innovation and creating employment, and work to pose few barriers not actually required to maintain basic health regulation and to prevent the most serious risks of misconduct placing the public at risk (in those instances, solutions tend to involve training and certification requirements, or bonding and background checks). In the United States, the rise of licensing schemes for medical practice was conducted before the era of germ theory, and before antibiotics or sterile technique made it likely that seriously ill patients might survive the advice of medically-trained physicians. The licensing statutes were passed in successive states in order to protect these physicians from competition by persons who adhered to other theories of how to heal the injured. Thus, chiropractors were systematically discriminated against by physicians and surgeons whose techniques were neither safer nor more effective than those against which they lobbied. Today, the licensing statute scheme reaches all manner of professionals: attorneys, chiropractors, engineers, nurses, physicians, physiotherapists, etc.; however, the focus of the statutes as currently implemented is to assure minimum training and to administer professional examination requirements. The licensing and permitting scheme has generally become a system of protecting the public against the risk of inept or fraudulent practitioners. In many states, though, the licensing authorities are more beholden to the members of the profession they "regulate" than to the public, and in effect merely serve to protect from oversight those individuals who succeed in meeting the listed entrance requirements of the profession. I had a case not long ago in which a professional in another state had violated over a half-dozen enforceable professional rules of practice (lying about his expertise, lying about the amount his services would cost, lying about the amount of work done by double- billing for some items, and so on). I thought my client stood a good chance of an effective remedy: the Texas regulators of his profession would give him a full hearing, and he might appeal the ruling, but on the facts before me it was the overwhelming likelihood that the violator would be ejected from the profession and never practice again. However, in Illinois, the regulators did not even bother to convene a hearing. They preferred to look after their own than the public. The short story? Professional licensure and regulation can work for or against the public, and it depends on the motives of the regulators (and their successors, years later). > LegCo was asked yesterday to repel this legislation, on the grounds > that it impedes the growth of new businesses, but was unable to > make a decision. The Chamber of Commerce supports the repeal of > the legislation, but not all of the public do (for reasons that are > not clear to me and your inputs may help me to understand this). While it's easy to laugh at a given piece of legislation and deride its backers, a more serious method of examining the problem going forward is to examine instead the deliberative process behind the legislation. The deliberative process might in simple terms be thought of as being composed of discrete elements: who participates (either as a voter or as a presenting interested party), and what priorities and values are considered. Now that we've been a few millennia without the sort of direct democracy that early Athens enjoyed, we usually end up with decision-making systems that place in the hands of a few the theoretical obligation to represent the views of a larger constituency (though you will notice there is little way to enforce this obligation on any current officeholder under most systems I've studied; unless you take bribes or steal from the treasury, you are safe to be a buffoon in legislature even if you are subsequently not re-elected). So it boils down to: (1) What persons comprise the voting body? (How are they selected, who hold the positions now, etc.) (2) Who has access to the voting body? (is access to the body restricted? who may address the body? is it possible to ascertain the concerns being weighed by the body on an issue, or even to learn what issues are under consideration?) and (3) What considerations will be presented to, or considered by, the voting body in making a decision on the matter? If deliberation is conducted only in closed meetings, it's possible that the interested public will have no way to know either who was present at the meeting(s) (except for the assumption that the body had a quorum) or who was permitted to present information to it. Even knowing what objectives were considered (or rejected as) legitimate, and how competing interests were weighed (or dismissed) could be impossible if deliberation were confined to closed meetings. Closed meetings would allow parties who enjoy access to be represented in a manner unavailable to others, because their framing of the issues and description of their position's benefits would stand unrefuted (because nobody knew what issues were to be discussed or what information was desired). Open deliberation has the salutory effect of enabling the discovery of stakeholders, values, interests, and priorities that might never be brought to the attention of decision-makers who close their doors to input. Without an open deliberative process, quality decisions are frankly unlikely (even made by presumed experts, though there's no reason to suspect members of SHG are personally expert in many of the fields in which they are called to make decisions). The unfortunate thing here is that Saints commenting to me on SHG while I visited seemed uniformly to describe an opaque SHG which was not in contact with Saints and which was not in the practice of obtaining input from or giving feedback to stakeholder Saints. If this does not change, Saints will probably continue to "enjoy" unhappy regulatory inconsistencies and government behavior out of step with the interests of Saints. This is not because SHG has bad people; quite the contrary. It is simply because the deliberative process appears generally to exclude the input that would enable quality decision-making. It's not a matter of bad decisions being intended, but a matter of a process that makes good decisions more a matter of chance than design. (The "chance" I describe here is the luck Saints may have on the happy occasion that expertise is available within SHG, or that input made available by parties with access will be either relatively complete information or a relatively balanced presentation.) > Apparently the law has a few quirks: butchers need licenses but > bakers do not (what happens to candlestick-makers I'm not sure). > And Non-Saints who have a work permit do not need licenses for > things that a Saint would. Also, apparently, one of the major > objections to the law is that it is anti-competitive. If you want > to set up a shop to compete with the existing ones, they have the > right to object to your licence application. I can imagine that some might view the size of the St. Helena market as a factor promoting government-regulated monopolies for certain services, in order to ensure the business is sufficient in volume per vendor to enable a living. However, government-regulated monopolies then need government-regulated prices and restrictions on service bundling in order not to allow the oppressive market conduct ordinarily associated with monopolies (or oligopolies; two or more can agree to be as evil). The likelihood of competent regulation of this sort being conducted by SHG officers "in their spare time" is probably not high enough to warrant public confidence in it. Moreover, the interest of vendors would be threatened by the regulation: on an island with no other butcher, for example, would you expect a presumably democratic legislative body to fix the price of butchers' services at a high rate or a low one? I'd fear to base a business on it, out of concern the legislature would wake up one morning and pass a law "free beef" or the like. Why non-butchers would support the law is an interesting quirk of public political behavior. Many times, issues put to public referendum to amend antiquated features of the Texas Constitution have been defeated not because the proposals made no sense, but because the voters had no idea what objective was achieved when the old rule was passed. Without information with which to weigh the options, they suspected something sinister might be afoot and voted against merely because they had experience that status quo was tolerable, and no such experience with the proposed improvements. So Texas continued for many years to require by Constitutional pronouncement that the Adjutant General serve a term of office that is off by two years from the office of the Governor who appoints him. When the Governor is replaced, the new Governor has two years to deal with the old Governor's golfing buddy (for example) before he can appoint someone willing to carry out his administration's priorities in connection with the National Guard (considering Texas has no compulsory service and is normally at peace with its neighbors, this position is normally so non-controversial that most Texans are unaware the post exists). Why the state benefits from possible mis-alignment of top officers, and why the state does not require this mis-alignment for officers other than the Adjutant General, remains otherwise a mystery. The short version: inconsistent laws that make no sense endure due to inertia and lack of meaningful public input. The conclusion: to get sensible decisions on policy matters, Saints should demand transparency in government so that decisions are subject to public review (if not correction) and impending decisions can attract appropriate input from stakeholder Saints. Otherwise, expect seemingly incomprehensible decisions that ignore Saints' important priorities to be the order of the day. Without open discussion of issues, even discovering who among Saints has interest or expertise to offer the decision-making process will be nearly impossible, and the quality of decisions will suffer as a result. Poorly-conceived procedure can produce worthwhile results, but it's not a bet worth taking with one's future. The convenience of secret votes and closed deliberation may benefit persons uninterested in public criticism (which is why nationwide polls of private citizens share these features; they are viewed as entitled to hold any opinion they choose and as being responsible to no-one for their decisions), but it does nothing to enhance the quality of output by purportedly representative bodies on behalf of their nominal constituents. This line of thinking applies to the licensing of trades as much as to the establishment of a coherent maritime heritage development policy or decisions on how to prioritize educational resources or road improvement funds. Unless you are keen to engage in political activism, that is, to work to create public interaction with a Government apparently known for working in isolation of public input, I would expect that if the Saints who described SHG's degree of openness to me are correct, inertia will rule over reason for the foreseeable future. Very best regards, Chris (c) 2007 Christopher D. Lewis, all rights reserved. This essay was authorized on January 30, 2007 for one-time publication on the mailing list list@sthenena.se. Derogation of this work by fragmentary publication or infringement by republication without license from the author is forbidden by law. Please contact the author about other proposed uses and to obtain a license. Theft of intellectual property barred by British law is forbidden even in St. Helena, Mike. Go hire your own author rather than steal my work. From Reino.Bauer at t-online.de Tue Jan 30 19:16:52 2007 From: Reino.Bauer at t-online.de (Reino Bauer) Date: Tue Jan 30 19:17:34 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Thoughts on Trade Licensing In-Reply-To: References: <005a01c74452$b894e040$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <45BF8B94.8090902@bigfoot.com> Christopher D. Lewis wrote: > This is something that Deeptrek's Bernie McDonald described as likely > attributable to St. Helena's history as an outpost of the British East > India Company. The Company's monopoly on the East Indies trade > effectively made private enterprise by its personnel an affront to the > Company's rights and economic position. Protection of the Company's > monopoly resulted in a culture of control: everything was forbidden > unless explicitly permitted. This is an interesting aspect and certainly explains a lot. > (c) 2007 Christopher D. Lewis, all rights reserved. This essay was > authorized on January 30, 2007 for one-time publication on the mailing > list list@sthenena.se. Derogation of this work by fragmentary > publication or infringement by republication without license from the > author is forbidden by law. Please contact the author about other > proposed uses and to obtain a license. Theft of intellectual property > barred by British law is forbidden even in St. Helena, Mike. Go hire > your own author rather than steal my work. What this explains remains a mystery to me. Never seen a Copyright on a forum or mailing list before. I was expecting a smiley or a 'LOL'. If it is meant seriously, then its serious. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070130/d8524795/attachment-0001.htm From sea_dragons at earthlink.net Tue Jan 30 21:10:24 2007 From: sea_dragons at earthlink.net (Christopher D. Lewis) Date: Tue Jan 30 21:10:48 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Thoughts on Trade Licensing In-Reply-To: <45BF8B94.8090902@bigfoot.com> References: <005a01c74452$b894e040$2d0b000a@shgbank45> <45BF8B94.8090902@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <16FE61EF-39F2-4A80-9EB4-58F6640D75AC@earthlink.net> On Jan 30, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Reino Bauer wrote: > > (c) 2007 Christopher D. Lewis, all rights reserved. This essay was > > authorized on January 30, 2007 for one-time publication on the > mailing > > list list@sthenena.se. Derogation of this work by fragmentary > > publication or infringement by republication without license from > the > > author is forbidden by law. Please contact the author about other > > proposed uses and to obtain a license. Theft of intellectual > property > > barred by British law is forbidden even in St. Helena, Mike. Go > hire > > your own author rather than steal my work. > What this explains remains a mystery to me. Never seen a Copyright > on a > forum or mailing list before. I was expecting a smiley or a 'LOL'. If > it is meant seriously, then its serious. > The last time I posted something of any length to this list, it was stolen and published for (at least attempted) profit by a fellow named Mike who moved to St. Helena some years ago and currently runs and edits a newspaper. I wanted to make sure he understood his conduct had not gone unnoticed. So far I have seen Mike, through his paper, publish authors' writings without consent (three times I can think of offhand), publish writings without attribution (once I can think of), and publish work shortened so as to undermine its integrity by removing important context from which the author expected readers to benefit. Mike's apparent motive was to sell papers at the lowest cost to produce, and apparently to Mike this means stealing content to fill his paper is "good business". If Mike keeps this up he could develop a reputation that will not aid him. So, the notice is meant seriously. If Mike wants to publish an essay on regulatory policy, he should get permission from the essay's author. To do otherwise is theft. Of course, he is free to opine on policy development himself, but he may not be qualified to discuss it and he might embarrass himself. People who want to respond on the list to things I write are free to do so. With respect to policy development itself: I think democracy is important enough not to permit it to be derailed for private purposes by persons who have no desire to represent the public. Based on the discussions I had with Saints about getting results from SHG, I am concerned that Saints may have simply given up on their democracy. I would have thought that a community of only a few thousand would be an ideal place in which representative and open government should thrive. It's sad to think this may not be the case. I would dearly love to discover the Saints with whom I spoke about government were mistaken about their representatives' keenness to promote the interests of Saints. However, I am cognizant that the Saints with whom I spoke had direct experience with SHG, had observed SHG for years, and included both people who had come to St. Helena from elsewhere and those who had lived on St. Helena most of their lives. I will not readily dismiss their judgment and assume that St. Helena's deliberative process enjoys attributes that may exist only in my idealistic imagination. And I can't throw stones: I see political problems where I live, and yet I prioritize those things I believe lie more within my control above addressing issues decided solely by representatives beholden to strangers and to political forces that are not cognizant of the relative merits of the issues under consideration. Much of the crazy activity of government results from policies' merits being ignored, and consideration being given to the advancement causes personally interesting or beneficial to the voting representatives (and here, I offer as an example not one but two hundred-million-dollar programs to construct bridges to nearly uninhabited Alaskan islands presently served effectively by ferries). Very best regards, Chris (c) 2007 Christopher D. Lewis, all rights reserved. This essay was authorized on January 30, 2007 for one-time publication on the mailing list list@sthenena.se. Derogation of this work by fragmentary publication or infringement by republication without license from the author is forbidden by law. Please contact the author about other proposed uses and to obtain a license. Theft of intellectual property barred by British law is forbidden even in St. Helena, Mike. Go hire your own author rather than steal my work. From deird at optusnet.com.au Tue Jan 30 22:40:29 2007 From: deird at optusnet.com.au (Eugene & Deirdre) Date: Tue Jan 30 22:40:57 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Le Breton Message-ID: <45BFBB4D.000003.03064@DEIRD> For some time now I have been researching the Le Breton family, and have recently discovered that a Captain John Le Breton, born in Guernsey, Channel Islands, married Elizabeth Newton in 1808 on St Helena Island. One of their daughters, Lucy Tracy Le Breton, married Thomas Brown Wills in 1834. I understand there are some Le Breton families still living on the island, and would love to be able to get in touch with one of them, if at all possible. So far I haven't been able to locate a phone directory for the island. I would be so glad of any help, Deirdre Blunt From Australia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070131/c91f5c10/attachment.htm From jvigor at earthlink.net Tue Jan 30 23:32:47 2007 From: jvigor at earthlink.net (John and June Vigor) Date: Tue Jan 30 23:31:22 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Le Breton References: <45BFBB4D.000003.03064@DEIRD> Message-ID: <004601c744be$92a4d720$a501f304@fmk4n> Deirdre, I have a 2006 telephone directory for St. Helena. There is just one Le Breton listed, Ruth Le Breton, whose address is given as Ladder Hill Corner. Her phone number is 2617. Her full address would be Ruth Le Breton, Ladder Hill Corner, St. Helena Island, South Atlantic Ocean, STHL 1ZZ. The international telephone code for St. Helena is 290. Regards, John Vigor ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene & Deirdre To: list@sthelena.se Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:40 PM Subject: [STHELENA] Re Le Breton For some time now I have been researching the Le Breton family, and have recently discovered that a Captain John Le Breton, born in Guernsey, Channel Islands, married Elizabeth Newton in 1808 on St Helena Island. One of their daughters, Lucy Tracy Le Breton, married Thomas Brown Wills in 1834. I understand there are some Le Breton families still living on the island, and would love to be able to get in touch with one of them, if at all possible. So far I haven't been able to locate a phone directory for the island. I would be so glad of any help, Deirdre Blunt From Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070130/15724224/attachment.htm From manager at sainthelenabank.com Wed Jan 31 10:29:26 2007 From: manager at sainthelenabank.com (Manager, Bank of St. Helena) Date: Wed Jan 31 10:33:08 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Thoughts on Trade Licensing In-Reply-To: <16FE61EF-39F2-4A80-9EB4-58F6640D75AC@earthlink.net> References: <005a01c74452$b894e040$2d0b000a@shgbank45><45BF8B94.8090902@bigfoot.com> <16FE61EF-39F2-4A80-9EB4-58F6640D75AC@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <010301c7451a$50a511d0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> I think we must ask the list manager (mornin' John - how's the snow and ice?) to rule on whether postings can be copyrighted. When I have run open lists I have been entirely clear (though have, perhaps, not articulated equally clearly) that anything posted was in the public domain and could therefore be reproduced or quoted from without limit. For the avoidance of doubth therefore, I commit that anything I post on this list is in the public domain and can be reproduced or quoted from without limit, attributed or otherwise, as long as my words are not taken out of context or otherwise 'twisted' to make is sound like I was saying something that I was not (if in doubt, please ask). Regards, John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Christopher D. Lewis Sent: 30 January 2007 20:10 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Thoughts on Trade Licensing On Jan 30, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Reino Bauer wrote: > > (c) 2007 Christopher D. Lewis, all rights reserved. This essay was > > authorized on January 30, 2007 for one-time publication on the > mailing > > list list@sthenena.se. Derogation of this work by fragmentary > > publication or infringement by republication without license from > the > > author is forbidden by law. Please contact the author about other > > proposed uses and to obtain a license. Theft of intellectual > property > > barred by British law is forbidden even in St. Helena, Mike. Go > hire > > your own author rather than steal my work. > What this explains remains a mystery to me. Never seen a Copyright on > a forum or mailing list before. I was expecting a smiley or a 'LOL'. > If it is meant seriously, then its serious. > The last time I posted something of any length to this list, it was stolen and published for (at least attempted) profit by a fellow named Mike who moved to St. Helena some years ago and currently runs and edits a newspaper. I wanted to make sure he understood his conduct had not gone unnoticed. So far I have seen Mike, through his paper, publish authors' writings without consent (three times I can think of offhand), publish writings without attribution (once I can think of), and publish work shortened so as to undermine its integrity by removing important context from which the author expected readers to benefit. Mike's apparent motive was to sell papers at the lowest cost to produce, and apparently to Mike this means stealing content to fill his paper is "good business". If Mike keeps this up he could develop a reputation that will not aid him. So, the notice is meant seriously. If Mike wants to publish an essay on regulatory policy, he should get permission from the essay's author. To do otherwise is theft. Of course, he is free to opine on policy development himself, but he may not be qualified to discuss it and he might embarrass himself. People who want to respond on the list to things I write are free to do so. With respect to policy development itself: I think democracy is important enough not to permit it to be derailed for private purposes by persons who have no desire to represent the public. Based on the discussions I had with Saints about getting results from SHG, I am concerned that Saints may have simply given up on their democracy. I would have thought that a community of only a few thousand would be an ideal place in which representative and open government should thrive. It's sad to think this may not be the case. I would dearly love to discover the Saints with whom I spoke about government were mistaken about their representatives' keenness to promote the interests of Saints. However, I am cognizant that the Saints with whom I spoke had direct experience with SHG, had observed SHG for years, and included both people who had come to St. Helena from elsewhere and those who had lived on St. Helena most of their lives. I will not readily dismiss their judgment and assume that St. Helena's deliberative process enjoys attributes that may exist only in my idealistic imagination. And I can't throw stones: I see political problems where I live, and yet I prioritize those things I believe lie more within my control above addressing issues decided solely by representatives beholden to strangers and to political forces that are not cognizant of the relative merits of the issues under consideration. Much of the crazy activity of government results from policies' merits being ignored, and consideration being given to the advancement causes personally interesting or beneficial to the voting representatives (and here, I offer as an example not one but two hundred-million-dollar programs to construct bridges to nearly uninhabited Alaskan islands presently served effectively by ferries). Very best regards, Chris (c) 2007 Christopher D. Lewis, all rights reserved. This essay was authorized on January 30, 2007 for one-time publication on the mailing list list@sthenena.se. Derogation of this work by fragmentary publication or infringement by republication without license from the author is forbidden by law. Please contact the author about other proposed uses and to obtain a license. Theft of intellectual property barred by British law is forbidden even in St. Helena, Mike. Go hire your own author rather than steal my work. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. From simon.pipe at bbc.co.uk Wed Jan 31 11:46:49 2007 From: simon.pipe at bbc.co.uk (Simon Pipe) Date: Wed Jan 31 11:47:13 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Breach of copyright In-Reply-To: <010301c7451a$50a511d0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> References: <005a01c74452$b894e040$2d0b000a@shgbank45><45BF8B94.8090902@bigfoot.com><16FE61EF-39F2-4A80-9EB4-58F6640D75AC@earthlink.net> <010301c7451a$50a511d0$2d0b000a@shgbank45> Message-ID: <3103E6DC0AB6144FB61C906EEFFB6ACD014A74F6@bbcxue801.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Copyright law in the UK is clear: it automatically rests with the creator of the work, of whatever nature, without the need for it to be registered. Copyright cannot be taken away, but it can be assigned to another. If it's clearly understood that by writing to a mailing list you are assigning copyright to all who view it, then the best way to protect it is not to write to the list; however, I have never been aware that anything posted to the St Helena list can be quoted without limit, and I'm not sure it's for the owner of the list to say that a newspaper can freely plunder the work of another contributor. If the writer says it can't, then it can't. Certainly, if I was an editor I'd expect to be in trouble if I was caught publishing list contributions without the writer's approval - especially if unsympathetically edited. It is permissible to publish brief quotes or extracts from a work for the purpose of review, and there are other minor concessions. It's a civil matter, though - the victim may have to sue for redress. Simon Pipe Former freelance journalist -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Manager, Bank of St. Helena Sent: 31 January 2007 09:29 To: 'All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng)' Cc: john.ekwall@mailbox.tele2.se Subject: RE: [STHELENA] Thoughts on Trade Licensing I think we must ask the list manager (mornin' John - how's the snow and ice?) to rule on whether postings can be copyrighted. When I have run open lists I have been entirely clear (though have, perhaps, not articulated equally clearly) that anything posted was in the public domain and could therefore be reproduced or quoted from without limit. For the avoidance of doubth therefore, I commit that anything I post on this list is in the public domain and can be reproduced or quoted from without limit, attributed or otherwise, as long as my words are not taken out of context or otherwise 'twisted' to make is sound like I was saying something that I was not (if in doubt, please ask). Regards, John Turner Manager, Bank of St. Helena www.SaintHelenaBank.com Post Office Building, Main Street, Jamestown, Island of St. Helena. Tel: +290 2044; Fax: +290 2196 NOTICE TO RECIPIENTS: Any opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Bank of St. Helena. This communication and any attachments are confidential, meant solely for the intended recipient of the transmission, and may be a communication privileged by law. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error or are not the intended recipient, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, copying of this communication or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the author by reply and then kindly delete the communication. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces@sthelena.se [mailto:list-bounces@sthelena.se] On Behalf Of Christopher D. Lewis Sent: 30 January 2007 20:10 To: All about St. Helena - The Island in the South Atlantic(Eng) Subject: Re: [STHELENA] Thoughts on Trade Licensing On Jan 30, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Reino Bauer wrote: > > (c) 2007 Christopher D. Lewis, all rights reserved. This essay was > > authorized on January 30, 2007 for one-time publication on the > mailing > > list list@sthenena.se. Derogation of this work by fragmentary > > publication or infringement by republication without license from > the > > author is forbidden by law. Please contact the author about other > > proposed uses and to obtain a license. Theft of intellectual > property > > barred by British law is forbidden even in St. Helena, Mike. Go > hire > > your own author rather than steal my work. > What this explains remains a mystery to me. Never seen a Copyright on > a forum or mailing list before. I was expecting a smiley or a 'LOL'. > If it is meant seriously, then its serious. > The last time I posted something of any length to this list, it was stolen and published for (at least attempted) profit by a fellow named Mike who moved to St. Helena some years ago and currently runs and edits a newspaper. I wanted to make sure he understood his conduct had not gone unnoticed. So far I have seen Mike, through his paper, publish authors' writings without consent (three times I can think of offhand), publish writings without attribution (once I can think of), and publish work shortened so as to undermine its integrity by removing important context from which the author expected readers to benefit. Mike's apparent motive was to sell papers at the lowest cost to produce, and apparently to Mike this means stealing content to fill his paper is "good business". If Mike keeps this up he could develop a reputation that will not aid him. So, the notice is meant seriously. If Mike wants to publish an essay on regulatory policy, he should get permission from the essay's author. To do otherwise is theft. Of course, he is free to opine on policy development himself, but he may not be qualified to discuss it and he might embarrass himself. People who want to respond on the list to things I write are free to do so. With respect to policy development itself: I think democracy is important enough not to permit it to be derailed for private purposes by persons who have no desire to represent the public. Based on the discussions I had with Saints about getting results from SHG, I am concerned that Saints may have simply given up on their democracy. I would have thought that a community of only a few thousand would be an ideal place in which representative and open government should thrive. It's sad to think this may not be the case. I would dearly love to discover the Saints with whom I spoke about government were mistaken about their representatives' keenness to promote the interests of Saints. However, I am cognizant that the Saints with whom I spoke had direct experience with SHG, had observed SHG for years, and included both people who had come to St. Helena from elsewhere and those who had lived on St. Helena most of their lives. I will not readily dismiss their judgment and assume that St. Helena's deliberative process enjoys attributes that may exist only in my idealistic imagination. And I can't throw stones: I see political problems where I live, and yet I prioritize those things I believe lie more within my control above addressing issues decided solely by representatives beholden to strangers and to political forces that are not cognizant of the relative merits of the issues under consideration. Much of the crazy activity of government results from policies' merits being ignored, and consideration being given to the advancement causes personally interesting or beneficial to the voting representatives (and here, I offer as an example not one but two hundred-million-dollar programs to construct bridges to nearly uninhabited Alaskan islands presently served effectively by ferries). Very best regards, Chris (c) 2007 Christopher D. Lewis, all rights reserved. This essay was authorized on January 30, 2007 for one-time publication on the mailing list list@sthenena.se. Derogation of this work by fragmentary publication or infringement by republication without license from the author is forbidden by law. Please contact the author about other proposed uses and to obtain a license. Theft of intellectual property barred by British law is forbidden even in St. Helena, Mike. Go hire your own author rather than steal my work. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. The S:t Helena Mailing List To unsubscribe please send a email to: list-leave@sthelena.se and answer the confirm mail. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. From neon_dream at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 16:27:03 2007 From: neon_dream at hotmail.com (Neon Dream) Date: Wed Jan 31 16:27:30 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Theft of intellectual property Message-ID: I would be most interested to hear of any cases where a member here at list.se believes their thoughts and ideas on subjects relating to St Helena are being stolen and misused, by whom and in what context. Already identified through the discussion entitled "Thoughts on Trade Licensing" is the reproduction within the St Helena Independent of the work of others (either in whole or in part) without any reference back to the originator or permission from same. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From neon_dream at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 16:24:05 2007 From: neon_dream at hotmail.com (Neon Dream) Date: Wed Jan 31 16:50:24 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Theft of intellectual property Message-ID: I would be most interested to hear of any cases where a member here at list.se believes their thoughts and ideas on subjects relating to St Helena are being stolen and misused, by whom and in what context. Already identified through the discussion entitled "Thoughts on Trade Licensing" is the reproduction within the St Helena Independent of the work of others (either in whole or in part) without any reference back to the originator or permission from same. _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From rp at t-kartor.se Wed Jan 31 18:39:07 2007 From: rp at t-kartor.se (Rich Perkins) Date: Wed Jan 31 18:36:54 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] The List, trade laws and internet access Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20070131182018.048d02a8@194.52.167.3> Hi all, A few belated comments on a couple of recent issues: 1) John, although i'm a fairly recent sign up, i would be very disappointed if the list were to close. I second all the comments about being more than willing to contribute a suitable number of Dollars (or, in my case which may help you, Swedish Krona) to help with it's upkeep, if its a cost issue, or support a move to a free mailing site, such as Yahoo Groups. I Know that this is only my second post, but in mitigation i'm currently working 18-20hr days, 7 days a week - and this will continue for a couple more months - so don't exactly have reams of free time to use. [on a side note, i haven't forgotten that i need to reply to several people off line. Please accept my apologies for the delay, and rest assured that i have certainly not forgotten about them, rather circumstances are working against me just now]. I'm also unable to contribute to many of the discussions on here, although follow them with interest. However, as i am in the process of planning my first trip to the Island, i expect to be chucking more and more questions/comments etc on to the list in the coming months. 2) Out of curiosity, how many/what percentage (very roughly) of Trade licence applications get turned down, and what sort of reasons are generally given for it? I'm curious because it might turn out that i can transfer some of my work to the island and work there for a period, maybe employing a couple of people, rather than come and stay on the island for a bit essentially being unemployed, or doing voluntary work [I didn't consider this beforehand, but my boss really doesn't want to loose me, and is now getting very worried and wants to look into the option]. This is early days floating ideas and it's not been researched at all, but it won't be worth attempting if its likely to be cut down because of a lack of a licence. 3) Somebody made a comment about the lack of St. Helenian based people on the list, and that was partly due to the poor accessibility of internet on the Island. John Turner is obviously a frequent contributor here and so his access at least must be reasonable, but i'm curious as to what the state/cost/issues with internet on the island are? I'm obviously not expecting it to be a hi tech broadband wi-fi super zone, but in order to be able to consider moving to the Island with my work, i would need at least reasonably efficient and reliable access to make it feasible [and also not to be prohibitively expensive]. Any comments on 2) and/or 3) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all. V?nliga h?lsningar / Regards Rich ******************************************** Richard Perkins T-Kartor Sweden AB Box 5097 S-291 05 Kristianstad SWEDEN tel: (direkt) +46 44 20 68 11 tel: (v?xel/switchboard) +46 44 20 68 00 tel: (British mobile) +44 7968 799881 fax: +46 44 12 82 56 e-mail: rp@t-kartor.se http://www.t-kartor.se map:http://www.karthotellet.com/ ******************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070131/014d134d/attachment.htm From deird at optusnet.com.au Wed Jan 31 22:48:32 2007 From: deird at optusnet.com.au (Eugene & Deirdre) Date: Wed Jan 31 22:51:10 2007 Subject: [STHELENA] Re Le breton Message-ID: <45C10EB0.000007.01332@DEIRD> Dear John, Thank you so very much for the name and address for Ruth Le Breton. I will write to her immediately. Your help is very much appreciated. All the best, Deirdre Blunt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.kulturservern.se/pipermail/list/attachments/20070201/3396f192/attachment.htm